A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[moonslav59]

Brave to say that around all these apologists.

 

There seems to be more bashers.

[mvp 78]

There seems to be more bashers.

 

Easy for you to say that with your wolf pack around you...

[moonslav59]

Easy for you to say that with your wolf pack around you...

 

I probably wouldn't sound like an apologist, so much, if at all, if so many posters weren't blaming Bloom for things out of his control, things that are more the fault of others, posts not providing context or just being untruthful about some analysis.

 

If most posters were saying Bloom has been one of our best GMs in Sox history, I'd be viewed as being anti-Bloom for arguing otherwise, all day.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I probably wouldn't sound like an apologist, so much, if at all, if so many posters weren't blaming Bloom for things out of his control, things that are more the fault of others, posts not providing context or just being untruthful about some analysis.

 

If most posters were saying Bloom has been one of our best GMs in Sox history, I'd be viewed as being anti-Bloom for arguing otherwise, all day.

 

The thing is -- and this has been stated by posters you view in let's say, different contexts -- a GM of any Big League team is judged by most fans of said Big League team on the records and standings of that Big League team.

 

Would you even agree that is true? And by most, can I say at least 51% of the fans?

[Old Red]

There seems to be more bashers.

 

You got that right! Those are from the many fans out there that are different from you, and don’t like watching a last place in the Div team for the most part since Bloom took over, and care what the standings say today, and not what they might be in 2028, and some of those who pay top dollar to watch in person, and whom has seen the Red Sox get broomed more than once this year. It’s really not that hard to understand why criticism, and boos come Bloom, and Henry’s way. You see things differently, and that is what’s right for you, while others see it differently, and that’s what’s right for them. What size Bloom Basher tee shirt do you want?

[Old Red]

The thing is -- and this has been stated by posters you view in let's say, different contexts -- a GM of any Big League team is judged by most fans of said Big League team on the records and standings of that Big League team.

 

Would you even agree that is true? And by most, can I say at least 51% of the fans?

 

That 51% I believe would be a lot higher.

[Dipre]

The problem is the same as it usually is. You can't blame the horse for carrying a fat jockey and losing the race. That's on the owner.

[Bellhorn04]

The thing is -- and this has been stated by posters you view in let's say, different contexts -- a GM of any Big League team is judged by most fans of said Big League team on the records and standings of that Big League team.

 

Would you even agree that is true? And by most, can I say at least 51% of the fans?

 

Context is always necessary.

 

If DD was judged by the Tigers' record in his first few years there, he would really suck.

[mvp 78]

The thing is -- and this has been stated by posters you view in let's say, different contexts -- a GM of any Big League team is judged by most fans of said Big League team on the records and standings of that Big League team.

 

Would you even agree that is true? And by most, can I say at least 51% of the fans?

 

He's in charge of the entire operation from MLB to DSL. Is the focus too much on farm building? Maybe! Should they be using some of the farm capital to help the MLB team? Probably! Have they had a very uneven track record putting together the MLB team? Yes.

[mvp 78]

You got that right! Those are from the many fans out there that are different from you, and don’t like watching a last place in the Div team for the most part since Bloom took over, and care what the standings say today, and not what they might be in 2028, and some of those who pay top dollar to watch in person, and whom has seen the Red Sox get broomed more than once this year. It’s really not that hard to understand why criticism, and boos come Bloom, and Henry’s way. You see things differently, and that is what’s right for you, while others see it differently, and that’s what’s right for them. What size Bloom Basher tee shirt do you want?

 

And if this offseason comes without changes to the rotation, there will be more and more bashing. And if the Sox aren't in the playoffs next season, there should be an entire nation wielding pitchforks.

[Old Red]

He's in charge of the entire operation from MLB to DSL. Is the focus too much on farm building? Maybe! Should they be using some of the farm capital to help the MLB team? Probably! Have they had a very uneven track record putting together the MLB team? Yes.

 

That sums it up pretty good.

[Old Red]

And if this offseason comes without changes to the rotation, there will be more and more bashing. And if the Sox aren't in the playoffs next season, there should be an entire nation wielding pitchforks.

 

I would not go into next year even thinking about counting on Chris Frail for the rotation.

[mvp 78]

Context is always necessary.

 

If DD was judged by the Tigers' record in his first few years there, he would really suck.

 

WS in the 5th year in Detroit. They had 4 starters with IP over 180 and ERA+ higher than 110.

[mvp 78]

As a 5th?

[Bellhorn04]

WS in the 5th year in Detroit. They had 4 starters with IP over 180 and ERA+ higher than 110.

 

The 5th year is the golden one, huh? Same with Theo's Cubs.

[moonslav59]

The thing is -- and this has been stated by posters you view in let's say, different contexts -- a GM of any Big League team is judged by most fans of said Big League team on the records and standings of that Big League team.

 

Would you even agree that is true? And by most, can I say at least 51% of the fans?

 

I've said hundreds of time, my view is in the minority and maybe even a tiny minority on many aspects of how Sox fans view the team and direction of the team. I have no issues with that, but when someone says or implies that because they think more people agree with them, it somehow strengthens their position, I take issue with that.

 

Most fans and people, at least in our society, live in the here and now and some don't care about context or diving deeper into the hows and whys of things. I try not to be like that, and I know I come across as sounding like my view is better than theirs, but it is what it is.

 

GMs are judged by results and almost totally in hindsight. That has been the way for many years. It may or may not be fair, but to me, context is needed, and not just about GMs signing a player with a great health history, only to see the guy get hurt, early in the contract, but also about all the many aspects that affect a GM's success, and in this case, immediate success or lack of it.

 

I try to provide that context, and it comes across as being apologetic and some might view it see being overly defensive. I have been highly critical of many moves Bloom has made. I've given him grades of lower than C in some areas, while viewing others as "incomplete, but again, when given the context of the budget he was given and the amount of holes he needed to fill each off season, what should be expected? 75% hits on contracts from $3M/1 to $10M/1?? To me, it's laughable to blame him for not doing better than the 50-60% he has given us, depending on how you grade each move.

 

When I hear a poster say "every move he makes sucks," or "most of his moves and non moves suck," I cringe.

 

I provided lists all all the major and minor moves he's made and asked those who are highly critical of his moves to tell me how many were failures, and I don't think any even tried to give me a number. They harp on JBJ, Kluber, Richards and Story, but seemingly forget all the good moves, some very low cost hits

 

Off the top of my head, I think Bloom deserves these grades:

 

C to C- on ML roster construction, but maybe C+, if you look at expectations per contract dollars

B on budget management and the lessening of deadwood contracts he inherited

INC on farm building, but I like what I'm seeing and am grateful some of his immediate moves have helped out, including...

1. Not trading away and having faith in Bello, DDuran, Casas, Wong and others

2. Adding ML ready prospects via trade or other ways that have already contributed, like Winckowski, Whitlock, Bernardino and Wong.

3. Maybe improving our development process of prospects, including pitchers, which we have not seen much of, except for maybe Houck (Bello, Crawford, Wink, Murphy, Walter...)

 

Do those grades look like someone who is a huge Bloom supporter or apologist?

 

 

.

[moonslav59]

You got that right! Those are from the many fans out there that are different from you, and don’t like watching a last place in the Div team for the most part since Bloom took over, and care what the standings say today, and not what they might be in 2028, and some of those who pay top dollar to watch in person, and whom has seen the Red Sox get broomed more than once this year. It’s really not that hard to understand why criticism, and boos come Bloom, and Henry’s way. You see things differently, and that is what’s right for you, while others see it differently, and that’s what’s right for them. What size Bloom Basher tee shirt do you want?

 

But it often sounds like the bashers think there is a huge Bloom apologist legion on this site.

[moonslav59]

I would not go into next year even thinking about counting on Chris Frail for the rotation.

 

We agree on this. All 2024 plans should be based on 0 GS'd by Sale.

[Old Red]

But it often sounds like the bashers think there is a huge Bloom apologist legion on this site.

 

There is, but I never said they don’t criticize Bloom too. I have heard you criticize Bloom several times. I’ve even given Bloom an atta boy a few times.

[moonslav59]

There is, but I never said they don’t criticize Bloom too. I have heard you criticize Bloom several times. I’ve even given Bloom an atta boy a few times.

 

I know you have. I may think far too few.

 

I may think providing context and background is not apologizing or supporting, but some may see or take it differently.

[Old Red]

I know you have. I may think far too few.

 

I may think providing context and background is not apologizing or supporting, but some may see or take it differently.

That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. Everyone fan is different, and some see it, and take it differently than you do. I’m very well aware that many see it differently from what I do, but like I’ve said it works for me.

[moonslav59]

That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. Everyone fan is different, and some see it, and take it differently than you do. I’m very well aware that many see it differently from what I do, but like I’ve said it works for me.

 

You don't have to keep telling me.

 

You certainly don't have to keep telling me (and others) that you keep telling me (us.)

 

I know your positions well. I know fans see things differently than I do. I have said I think I am in a tiny minority on some issues. I get that it "works for you," but if I disagree, I'm going to say it.

[Old Red]

I've said hundreds of time, my view is in the minority and maybe even a tiny minority on many aspects of how Sox fans view the team and direction of the team. I have no issues with that, but when someone says or implies that because they think more people agree with them, it somehow strengthens their position, I take issue with that.

 

Most fans and people, at least in our society, live in the here and now and some don't care about context or diving deeper into the hows and whys of things. I try not to be like that, and I know I come across as sounding like my view is better than theirs, but it is what it is.

 

GMs are judged by results and almost totally in hindsight. That has been the way for many years. It may or may not be fair, but to me, context is needed, and not just about GMs signing a player with a great health history, only to see the guy get hurt, early in the contract, but also about all the many aspects that affect a GM's success, and in this case, immediate success or lack of it.

 

I try to provide that context, and it comes across as being apologetic and some might view it see being overly defensive. I have been highly critical of many moves Bloom has made. I've given him grades of lower than C in some areas, while viewing others as "incomplete, but again, when given the context of the budget he was given and the amount of holes he needed to fill each off season, what should be expected? 75% hits on contracts from $3M/1 to $10M/1?? To me, it's laughable to blame him for not doing better than the 50-60% he has given us, depending on how you grade each move.

 

When I hear a poster say "every move he makes sucks," or "most of his moves and non moves suck," I cringe.

 

I provided lists all all the major and minor moves he's made and asked those who are highly critical of his moves to tell me how many were failures, and I don't think any even tried to give me a number. They harp on JBJ, Kluber, Richards and Story, but seemingly forget all the good moves, some very low cost hits

 

Off the top of my head, I think Bloom deserves these grades:

 

C to C- on ML roster construction, but maybe C+, if you look at expectations per contract dollars

B on budget management and the lessening of deadwood contracts he inherited

INC on farm building, but I like what I'm seeing and am grateful some of his immediate moves have helped out, including...

1. Not trading away and having faith in Bello, DDuran, Casas, Wong and others

2. Adding ML ready prospects via trade or other ways that have already contributed, like Winckowski, Whitlock, Bernardino and Wong.

3. Maybe improving our development process of prospects, including pitchers, which we have not seen much of, except for maybe Houck (Bello, Crawford, Wink, Murphy, Walter...)

 

Do those grades look like someone who is a huge Bloom supporter or apologist?

 

 

.

I agree with most, but i don’t think he did that good a job on lessening all the expiring contracts that came due last year. He had 3 years to work on that, and except for trading Vaz he did pretty much nothing with them.

[Old Red]

You don't have to keep telling me.

 

You certainly don't have to keep telling me (and others) that you keep telling me (us.)

 

I know your positions well. I know fans see things differently than I do. I have said I think I am in a tiny minority on some issues. I get that it "works for you," but if I disagree, I'm going to say it.

No problem, and as always it’s a pleasure, and go ND.

[moonslav59]

I agree with most, but i don’t think he did that good a job on lessening all the expiring contracts that came due last year. He had 3 years to work on that, and except for trading Vaz he did pretty much nothing with them.

 

Well, you didn't want him to trade them.

 

Except for JD, most of the departed players are struggling or on the IL.

 

He replaced some big name players and some meh players with some in house players that I see as gambles or big gambles and msot worked, except SS, and that's the one we hear about mostly.

 

Kike at SS

Duran in the OF

Casas at 1B

Wong at C

Bello at SP

Crawford and Wink as key pitchers

 

He added a bunch of players to the inhouse solutions, mostly good moves, IMO, but who do we talk about mostly? Yes, Kike.

 

Kluber

Yoshida

Turner

Jansen

Martin

Duvall

(Do you see this list as mostly failures? If not, how many kudos have you mentioned on these guys vs criticisms of Kluber?)

 

Lesser cost additions:

Mondesi, Joely, Mills, Bernardino, Reyes, Chang and the revolving door at pen depth.

 

(Agree- far too many swings and misses, here.)

 

Plus last summer additions:

McGuire

EValdez

Abreu (hasn't played in MLB, yet)

 

Do you see this list as being a net negative?

[Old Red]

Well, you didn't want him to trade them.

 

Except for JD, most of the departed players are struggling or on the IL.

 

He replaced some big name players and some meh players with some in house players that I see as gambles or big gambles and msot worked, except SS, and that's the one we hear about mostly.

 

Kike at SS

Duran in the OF

Casas at 1B

Wong at C

Bello at SP

Crawford and Wink as key pitchers

 

He added a bunch of players to the inhouse solutions, mostly good moves, IMO, but who do we talk about mostly? Yes, Kike.

 

Kluber

Yoshida

Turner

Jansen

Martin

Duvall

(Do you see this list as mostly failures? If not, how many kudos have you mentioned on these guys vs criticisms of Kluber?)

 

Lesser cost additions:

Mondesi, Joely, Mills, Bernardino, Reyes, Chang and the revolving door at pen depth.

 

(Agree- far too many swings and misses, here.)

 

Plus last summer additions:

McGuire

EValdez

Abreu (hasn't played in MLB, yet)

 

Do you see this list as being a net negative?

I was yelling for a closer even before last year started, and I’ve already mentioned Martin, and Jansen were good moves. Yoshida has been a good pickup at least for a bat, but I still want to see how his stats end up at the end of the year, and how he does in these last two months postseason push. JT has been a great pickup, and I wish I hadn’t of dropped him so quick on my fantasy team. The story is INC on Duvall, and who knows what his stats would be today if he hadn’t gotten hurt. Not a great fit as a CF though. Duran has made a good comeback, but I’m still not entirely sold on him yet. I was wrong on him not deserving another chance though, which might not have happened if Duvall hadn’t gotten hurt. Casas has come around with the bat, which I was wondering for awhile. His D at 1B is another story though. Kluber not worth mentioning, and I’ve said enough about Kike. That’s all I got.

[moonslav59]

I was yelling for a closer even before last year started, and I’ve already mentioned Martin, and Jansen were good moves. Yoshida has been a good pickup at least for a bat, but I still want to see how his stats end up at the end of the year, and how he does in these last two months postseason push. JT has been a great pickup, and I wish I hadn’t of dropped him so quick on my fantasy team. The story is INC on Duvall, and who knows what his stats would be today if he hadn’t gotten hurt. Not a great fit as a CF though. Duran has made a good comeback, but I’m still not entirely sold on him yet. I was wrong on him not deserving another chance though, which might not have happened if Duvall hadn’t gotten hurt. Casas has come around with the bat, which I was wondering for awhile. His D at 1B is another story though. Kluber not worth mentioning, and I’ve said enough about Kike. That’s all I got.

 

Looking at all the names on these lists and counting the higher cost ones with more weight, do you think the net additions was a plus or a minus or about even?

[Old Red]

Looking at all the names on these lists and counting the higher cost ones with more weight, do you think the net additions was a plus or a minus or about even?

 

As fair as I am overall I’ll give it a plus. To add to it the SS situation for a long time, and not adding a starting pitcher were a minus.

[Nick]

During 2022, I did chuckled at what the Rangers did. Signed Seager to 10 year, $325M deal and Semien to a 7 year, $175M deal. The team did not look much better to me. At least they were not on my radar. But the owner tried.

 

Ranger then followed those signings with adding a slew of quality starting pitchers.

 

It was a two year plan now looking back.

 

I hope we are at year one of two year 'go for it' plan.

 

Our core group is emerging position wise.

 

It's time to do whatever to add starting pitchers. Trade some farmhands if you have to. Sign some free agents.

 

We have in the pen, possibly, Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber, Winckowski, Pivetta, Martin, Janssen, Crawford, Bernadino, etc. Couple of them might start.

 

If we don't go for it in 2024, I'll be very disappointed.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Nick

[dgalehouse]

I was yelling for a closer even before last year started, and I’ve already mentioned Martin, and Jansen were good moves. Yoshida has been a good pickup at least for a bat, but I still want to see how his stats end up at the end of the year, and how he does in these last two months postseason push. JT has been a great pickup, and I wish I hadn’t of dropped him so quick on my fantasy team. The story is INC on Duvall, and who knows what his stats would be today if he hadn’t gotten hurt. Not a great fit as a CF though. Duran has made a good comeback, but I’m still not entirely sold on him yet. I was wrong on him not deserving another chance though, which might not have happened if Duvall hadn’t gotten hurt. Casas has come around with the bat, which I was wondering for awhile. His D at 1B is another story though. Kluber not worth mentioning, and I’ve said enough about Kike. That’s all I got.

 

Jansen and Martin are what gives this team a shot . Jansen has 26 saves , almost half of the Sox wins. Martin has been excellent in his role. Still 47 games left to play. Last year, the saves leader for the full season had just 8 saves. You didn't even know who was going to close half the time.