Red Sox Spring Training 2023

[mvp 78]

From Justin Turner:

 

@redturn2

Thanks to everyone for all the messages and prayers! I’m feeling very fortunate to come out of yesterday with no breaks & all my chiclets in tact. The @RedSox medical staff and @Lee_Health have been absolutely amazing & I’m going to be back out on the field as soon as possible!

[mvp 78]

Paxton is back throwing already.

[Nick]

ST'ing Start

 

7-0 BOS (+35 run diff)

10-2 KC (+33)

6-2 LAD (+9)

6-3 TOR (+15)

6-3 STL (+14)

7-4 NYY (+14)

7-4 CHC (+1)

5-3 HOU (+11)

 

(4-5 TBR +21)

 

 

Perhaps it's the competition but our pitching looks decent for most part. NO MORE INJIRIES.

[moonslav59]

Martin and Cora were opposites.

 

AC always talks about "taking care of" his starters. But in the playoffs, he'll use anyone at any time -- in 2018, the entire five-man rotation both started and relieved in the postseason. They also pitched to the brink of November -- in the highest of high leverage situations with a world title on the line. Posters here blasted Cora for not "working" these same pitchers at the beginning of 2019, but none of the fans so sure the bad beginning was on the manager never seem to acknowledge the possibility that his starters weren't totally recovered yet from winning rings.

 

Martin took care of nobody (including himself). Yes, he burnt out those young Oakland arms, but it wasn't the first time. Remember, he brought his Cy Young "closer" -- Al Lyle -- into the '77 ALCS finale in the fourth inning and had him finish the ballgame. Sparky was never the same.

 

Martin was a throwback, but really, many SPers were going 250+ IP in the years right before those Oakland years, and several others during that time went 250+, too.

[moonslav59]

Paxton is back throwing already.

 

Throwing ping pong balls?

 

Lol

[Bellhorn04]

Martin was a throwback, but really, many SPers were going 250+ IP in the years right before those Oakland years, and several others during that time went 250+, too.

 

On that 1980 team the 5 starters threw a combined total of 1257.33 innings.

 

That's 5 pitchers, averaging 251.5 innings apiece.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Perhaps it's the competition but our pitching looks decent for most part. NO MORE INJIRIES.

 

Agree with your first sentence. But we all know the second, while hopeful, is unreasonable.

 

One of the counterculture mottos of the Sixties was Don't Trust Anyone Over 30. In '69, John Henry was 20 years old, and we know he lived by those words until he blew it with Lester... then along came Price. And then Bloom.

 

If the Dodgers, as predicted, are saving to go hard after Ohtani next winter, my advice for the Red Sox is pull a Yoshida and overwhelm Urias the first day he's a free agent.

[moonslav59]

On that 1980 team the 5 starters threw a combined total of 1257.33 innings.

 

That's 5 pitchers, averaging 251.5 innings apiece.

 

Baltimore had 3 over 250. KC and Oak had 2.

 

17 pitchers went over 250 IP.

20 over 240 IP.

27 over 230 IP.

47 over 210 IP.

56 over 200 IP.

 

BAL had 4 pitchers over 224 IP (top 31 in MLB.)

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

@MacCerullo

Whitlock threw approximately 20-25 pitches and mixed in his entire pitch mix. He confirms he has been cleared for fielding work and will throw another live BP on Saturday. Hope is he’ll get into a game soon after.

 

If this keeps him on track, he'd be ready to go mid-April as expected.

 

Probably just throwing ping pong balls or whatever.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

@MacCerullo

Whitlock threw approximately 20-25 pitches and mixed in his entire pitch mix. He confirms he has been cleared for fielding work and will throw another live BP on Saturday. Hope is he’ll get into a game soon after.

 

If this keeps him on track, he'd be ready to go mid-April as expected.

 

Probably just throwing ping pong balls or whatever.

 

Nerf balls! If your fastball can no longer beat batters and they rip it up the middle, it won't break your fingers.

[mvp 78]

Cora says James Paxton is moving well and could play catch tomorrow. All in all he's trending in the right direction.

 

"Obviously we're not rushing but if he's able to get on the mound by the end of the week we're in a better spot than what we thought a couple days ago."

[cukes]

The accusation was that Clemens threw at Piazza. Just because he didn’t hit him the face doesn’t mean he didn’t throw at him…

 

he hit Piazza square on the head and Piazza went right down, it's on You Tube, go watch

[Bellhorn04]

he hit Piazza square on the head and Piazza went right down, it's on You Tube, go watch

 

For clarification, Clemens hit Piazza in the head in an earlier regular season game, not the WS game.

[moonslav59]

Baltimore had 3 over 250. KC and Oak had 2.

 

17 pitchers went over 250 IP.

20 over 240 IP.

27 over 230 IP.

47 over 210 IP.

56 over 200 IP.

 

BAL had 4 pitchers over 224 IP (top 31 in MLB.)

 

 

Here is an interesting rundown on league leading IP pitchers.

 

300+, 275+, 250+, 225+, 200+

 

1920: 10, 18, 35, 56

1930: 0, 6, 14, 39

1940: 2, 8, 25, 31

1950: 2, 6, 26, 39

1960: 0, 3, 14, 33

1970: 4, 11, 27, 56

1980: 1, 7, 17, 56

1990: 0, 1, 17, 42

2000: 0, 1, 13, 37

2010: 0, 1, 7, 45

2022: 0, 0, 1, 8

[moonslav59]

Fun looking spring.

[notin]

There were also lots of pitchers who threw a ton of innings every single year and didn't go on the IL.

 

In 1969, 59 pitchers threw over 200 innings, 12 over 290 IP. By my count, 11 were Hall of Famers, and a lot of others had long careers.

 

Maybe they weren't throwing 90 mph, but you better believe they were all throwing as hard as they could. Why were men more durable then (I still let them play catch on my lawn)?

 

Two (but maybe not all of the) reasons

 

1. Teams spend significantly more money on pitchers now and prefer to risk that investment as little as possible.

2. Current MLB strategies employ the use of a larger and more specialized bullpen.

 

I doubt it’s anything physical. If anything a lot of those pitchers who threw all those innings appeared to be in much worse shape…

[Bellhorn04]

Two (but maybe not all of the) reasons

 

1. Teams spend significantly more money on pitchers now and prefer to risk that investment as little as possible.

2. Current MLB strategies employ the use of a larger and more specialized bullpen.

 

I doubt it’s anything physical. If anything a lot of those pitchers who threw all those innings appeared to be in much worse shape…

 

Don't you think there have to be physical differences in order for the ball to be thrown 10 MPH harder or more?

 

I don't think there were any pitchers back then built like Aroldis Chapman.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Two (but maybe not all of the) reasons

 

1. Teams spend significantly more money on pitchers now and prefer to risk that investment as little as possible.

2. Current MLB strategies employ the use of a larger and more specialized bullpen.

 

I doubt it’s anything physical. If anything a lot of those pitchers who threw all those innings appeared to be in much worse shape…

 

Ironically, by "babying" or "taking care of" modern pitchers, we seem to see more injuries -- and not just with arms, but all over their bodies -- that invariably limit their innings.

 

But I say that assuming your quote about old-timers being "in much worse shape" didn't mean because of overuse, but refers more to their overall physiques... because anyone who actually saw guys like Mickey Lolich or Wilbur Wood (ignore the vitals reported on reference sites) knows that they were legit workhorses or other reputable mammals.

 

For example, after Lolich led the league with 376 IP in '71, he threw over 300 IP in each of the next three years.

 

Wood led the AL with 376.2 IP in '72, then led again the next year with 359.1, and followed with seasons of 320 and 291 IP after that.

 

The returning members of the Red Sox projected for the '23 starting rotation -- Pivetta, Bello, Whitlock, Houck, Sale -- threw 381 innings combined in '22 (including relief frames).

[notin]

Don't you think there have to be physical differences in order for the ball to be thrown 10 MPH harder or more?

 

I don't think there were any pitchers back then built like Aroldis Chapman.

 

 

First of all, we’re talking about pitchers who throw 200+ innings per year. That total takes Chapman at least 3 years. Yes Chapman was huge. But Billy Wagner threw almost as hard (with his weak arm!) and looked like a casual fan. And Tim Collins threw almost as hard and looked like a casual fan’s son.

 

As for starting pitchers, not many really average 95+. Only 12 pitchers have done so over the past 3 seasons. I’m not sure whether or not that’s really a difference from 40-50 years ago, or

[mvp 78]

https://www.eagletribune.com/sports/whitlock-officially-back-in-the-mix/article_835deba0-bd22-11ed-b78b-8b59c7596b91.html

 

“I feel like a brand new guy,” Whitlock said. “It’s great to feel normal again.”

 

“He’s pumping strikes with good stuff,” said Red Sox manager Alex Cora. “His next one is going to be two innings, live still, in the back fields and after that he’ll be in the big field.”

 

Unlike Brayan Bello and James Paxton, who have both experienced minor injury setbacks during spring training, Whitlock’s slow ramp up was planned and he is progressing on schedule.

[mvp 78]

@BeyondtheMnstr

Kenley Jansen told WEEI’s Rob Bradford that even if the Netherlands advance in the WBC, he will not be joining them.

[Bellhorn04]

@BeyondtheMnstr

Kenley Jansen told WEEI’s Rob Bradford that even if the Netherlands advance in the WBC, he will not be joining them.

 

That's our man!

[Bellhorn04]

First of all, we’re talking about pitchers who throw 200+ innings per year. That total takes Chapman at least 3 years. Yes Chapman was huge. But Billy Wagner threw almost as hard (with his weak arm!) and looked like a casual fan. And Tim Collins threw almost as hard and looked like a casual fan’s son.

 

As for starting pitchers, not many really average 95+. Only 12 pitchers have done so over the past 3 seasons. I’m not sure whether or not that’s really a difference from 40-50 years ago, or

 

The mystery we're trying to unravel is why more pitchers seem to get injured even when they pitch a lot less.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a simple scientific explanation, and it's more stress being placed on arms. And Tommy John surgeries are all about the exact same part of the arm getting damaged, right?

[mvp 78]

That's our man!

 

Without a pitchclock in the WBC, I think pitchers that go to the WBC may be at a disadvantage when they come back. Maybe some batters too?

[Bellhorn04]

Without a pitchclock in the WBC, I think pitchers that go to the WBC may be at a disadvantage when they come back. Maybe some batters too?

 

Yes, it's all part of the circus that is the beginning of the 2023 season.

[moonslav59]

The mystery we're trying to unravel is why more pitchers seem to get injured even when they pitch a lot less.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a simple scientific explanation, and it's more stress being placed on arms. And Tommy John surgeries are all about the exact same part of the arm getting damaged, right?

 

Can it be as simple as "They are just throwing harder and or 'spinning' the ball more, now?"

[notin]

Ironically, by "babying" or "taking care of" modern pitchers, we seem to see more injuries -- and not just with arms, but all over their bodies -- that invariably limit their innings.

 

But I say that assuming your quote about old-timers being "in much worse shape" didn't mean because of overuse, but refers more to their overall physiques... because anyone who actually saw guys like Mickey Lolich or Wilbur Wood (ignore the vitals reported on reference sites) knows that they were legit workhorses or other reputable mammals.

 

For example, after Lolich led the league with 376 IP in '71, he threw over 300 IP in each of the next three years.

 

Wood led the AL with 376.2 IP in '72, then led again the next year with 359.1, and followed with seasons of 320 and 291 IP after that.

 

The returning members of the Red Sox projected for the '23 starting rotation -- Pivetta, Bello, Whitlock, Houck, Sale -- threw 381 innings combined in '22 (including relief frames).

 

 

Well you don’t see many physiques like Lolich or Rick Reuscel or Pete Vukovich anymore…

[notin]

Can it be as simple as "They are just throwing harder and or 'spinning' the ball more, now?"

 

I think - but no numbers to back it up - a lot more pitchers throw sliders now. I’ve heard that pitch was fairly uncommon until the 1950s and was instrumental in increasing the amount of switch hitters in the league…

[notin]

The mystery we're trying to unravel is why more pitchers seem to get injured even when they pitch a lot less.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a simple scientific explanation, and it's more stress being placed on arms. And Tommy John surgeries are all about the exact same part of the arm getting damaged, right?

 

 

As for TJ surgery, it didn’t exist until 1974, and didn’t achieve decent success rates until the 2000s. It wasn’t even 85% successful until 2009!

 

Before 1974, if you tore that ligament, you retired. So, no Disabled List…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As for TJ surgery, it didn’t exist until 1974, and didn’t achieve decent success rates until the 2000s. It wasn’t even 85% successful until 2009!

 

Before 1974, if you tore that ligament, you retired. So, no Disabled List…

 

Before 1943, Tommy John himself didn't exist.

 

There were only 16 teams in the majors... and dozens of guys threw 200 or more innings every year. Not a lot of big names, but it's hard to gauge the impact because of lost time -- and primes -- to World War II.