Devers signs 11 year $331 million extension

[notin]

Aces are pitchers the Sox primarily buy (vice develop) who help them win the WS, which in the JH era amount to 4. Examples:

 

Curt Schilling--bloody sock guy who beat the Yankees and then Cardinals to end the 86 year curse.

Pedro Martinez--who helped him.

Josh Beckett--like Schilling, but in 2007 against Cleveland and Colorado.

Jon Lester and John Lackey--not as good as the above, but useful in winning the 2013 WS

Chris Sale--2018 regular season. Also David Price, Chris Porcello, Nate Eovaldi, and Craig Kimbrel.

 

John Henry pays the bills and fired DD in 2019 after the wondrous 2018 team fell completely apart, but were still paid the biggest team salary in MLB. Since then, JH has sought to avoid big and long contracts for "aces" because of the humungous financial risk involved.

 

John Lackey was an ace?

 

In 4+ years in Boston, Lackey was 47-43 with a 4.46 ERA. Those are Nick Pivetta type numbers…

[notin]

Some will say it's a pitcher people will pay to see live, the guy who draws the biggest crowds on the road, marketing phenoms having Cy Young seasons that can overlap multicultural interest with pop culture appeal: Vida Blue, Mark Fidrych, Fernando Valenzuela... Pedro.

 

But if you ask pro ballplayers, they'll tell you an ace always gives you a chance to win, and finishes what he starts, year after year after year: Roy Halladay... every five days, the man who demands the ball and gives the entire bullpen the night off.

 

 

Thanks for the answer. A romantic description that I can see.

 

I think of an ace as a top tier pitcher, but certainly a marketable one. But using this criteria, who is an ace today? Heck the durability portion wiped out a ton of candidates…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think that's a pretty fair description of aces--although giving "the entire bullpen the night off" is a rarity these days.

 

And yes, there are still aces out there. The problem is that "true ace" contracts are for enormous sums of money, all of it guaranteed while said "ace" is getting a new elbow and is out for two seasons. Or whatever.

 

The Sox have in fact brought in aces (or semi-aces) successfully, proven by their contributions to WS wins in 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018. But when the 2019 Sox collapsed, I think JH said, "no more aces, thank you." He also decided Mookie Betts next contract would be too pricey (it is) and the same for Bogey's (it also is). Devers $331M is also a gamble, but at least he's young, 26, so he might actually earn some of it.

 

Your assessment of recent Boston aces is right on. What Henry has said and what he has done reflects ambivalence through his tenure, so we can only guess what's next.

 

The Sox have drawn the line with investing long and large on starting pitchers, as much as it bothers fans that want to win everything every year... and have to instead suffer through Klubers.

 

And yes, injuries are part of the game. But as far as big money batters go, it is very rare when a guy tears his swinging elbow or batting wrist, and has to miss an entire year or more healing from reconstructive surgery.

[Bellhorn04]

But what is an ace?

 

There's only one safe, one-size-fits-all answer to that: an ace is a guy who's so good you expect he'll be in the Hall of Fame one day.

 

So yeah, it's a really stupid term.

[Hugh2]

John Lackey was an ace?

 

In 4+ years in Boston, Lackey was 47-43 with a 4.46 ERA. Those are Nick Pivetta type numbers…

 

Lackey also had that one AWFUL year pulling his total line down. His last 1.5 years in Boston he was pretty good.

[Bellhorn04]

Lackey also had that one AWFUL year pulling his total line down. His last 1.5 years in Boston he was pretty good.

 

He was really good after TJ surgery. And his problems before that were likely because he needed it.

[notin]

Lackey also had that one AWFUL year pulling his total line down. His last 1.5 years in Boston he was pretty good.

 

1.5 good years, but it was a 5 year deal…

[notin]

He was really good after TJ surgery. And his problems before that were likely because he needed it.

 

Very likely. Still his first 3 years in Boston were awful.

 

If we give injury excuse, does Kluber get a pass if he’s hurt?

[notin]

There's only one safe, one-size-fits-all answer to that: an ace is a guy who's so good you expect he'll be in the Hall of Fame one day.

 

So yeah, it's a really stupid term.

 

Especially since Max was right, but that also means the label gets applied in hindsight…

[Bellhorn04]

1.5 good years, but it was a 5 year deal…

 

Don't forget another year was added on at minimum wage because of the injury clause.

[Bellhorn04]

Very likely. Still his first 3 years in Boston were awful.

 

If we give injury excuse, does Kluber get a pass if he’s hurt?

 

Maybe, but Kluber is not going to get the chance at redemption that Lackey did.

 

Kluber is just 10 mill down the drain, and a blow to our playoff chances.

[Hugh2]

1.5 good years, but it was a 5 year deal…

 

Oh I'm not going to argue if it was a good deal or not, but when he was healthy he was a really good pitcher.

[Bellhorn04]

Especially since Max was right, but that also means the label gets applied in hindsight…

 

Right, and when Verlander gets shelled in a game, "ace" becomes "so-called ace".

 

It's all majorly stupid stuff.

[notin]

Don't forget another year was added on at minimum wage because of the injury clause.

 

Yes, but it still only helped the Sox get Joe Kelly and Allen Craig’s contract…

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, but it still only helped the Sox get Joe Kelly and Allen Craig’s contract…

 

I didn't like that trade at all. Kelly did pitch well in the 2018 playoffs though.

[notin]

Oh I'm not going to argue if it was a good deal or not, but when he was healthy he was a really good pitcher.

 

Lackey was proof that when it comes to judging contracts, it’s not how you stats; it’s how you finish…

[Bellhorn04]

Lackey was proof that when it comes to judging contracts, it’s not how you stats; it’s how you finish…

 

Bloom doesn't sign starters to more than a year, so he really compresses that equation LOL

[notin]

Maybe, but Kluber is not going to get the chance at redemption that Lackey did.

 

Kluber is just 10 mill down the drain, and a blow to our playoff chances.

 

1. $10mill down the drain is hardly insurmountable in today’s MLB

2. He’d be a bigger detriment if they kept starting him. We’ve all seen less effective pitchers given longer opportunities. Like Lackey.

 

And Lackey wasn’t dragged down by having to throw to Reese McGuire

[notin]

Bloom doesn't sign starters to more than a year, so he really compresses that equation LOL

 

1. Just because he hasn’t, does not mean he doesn’t and never will. Really what low budget starter should he have gone long with so far?

2. Garrett Whitlock disproves this.

[Bellhorn04]

1. Just because he hasn’t, does not mean he doesn’t and never will. Really what low budget starter should he have gone long with so far?

 

Signing Kluber might lead to us missing the playoffs and Bloom getting fired, which would render all of these delightful academic discussions moot.

[Dipre]

I kinda like the short term deals for starters strategy, as stated before. He's just whiffed on which starter.

[mvp 78]

Signing Kluber might lead to us missing the playoffs and Bloom getting fired, which would render all of these delightful academic discussions moot.

 

Might. Might not.

 

We could have another fun filled Bloom offseason to look forward to.

 

Maybe we'll get to accidentally go over the CBT AND miss the postseason again!

[moonslav59]

I kinda like the short term deals for starters strategy, as stated before. He's just whiffed on which starter.

 

He was a yea r or two off on Martin Perez.

The Richards signing mirrors the Kluber one.

The Wacha/Hill signings ($12M combined) worked out okay in isolation.

 

To me, you get what you pay for and for the amount he pais these guys, he did come up short, but not by a whole lot, when you look at what the norm is on bargain hunting.

[Bellhorn04]

Might. Might not.

 

We could have another fun filled Bloom offseason to look forward to.

 

Maybe we'll get to accidentally go over the CBT AND miss the postseason again!

 

There's also the fun of another surprise-filled Bloom trade deadline coming soon.

[notin]

Signing Kluber might lead to us missing the playoffs and Bloom getting fired, which would render all of these delightful academic discussions moot.

 

The first part alone is pure supposition. So you think if the Sox simply did not sign Kluber, they’re a playoff team?

[notin]

I kinda like the short term deals for starters strategy, as stated before. He's just whiffed on which starter.

 

There are absolutely pros and cons.

 

The biggest con is it leads to bigger turnover, which means more misses. More hits, too, but more misses…

[Bellhorn04]

The first part alone is pure supposition. So you think if the Sox simply did not sign Kluber, they’re a playoff team?

 

Signing Eflin or Kluber instead could have meant an additional 5 wins. Whether that would be enough I don't know.

[mvp 78]

There's also the fun of another surprise-filled Bloom trade deadline coming soon.

 

"Ohtani is our #1 priority."

 

Sox sign Alex Wood for his veteran presence instead.

[Dipre]

"Ohtani is our #1 priority."

 

Sox sign Alex Wood for his veteran presence instead.

 

You're posting it into existence. Stop.

[moonslav59]

There's also the fun of another surprise-filled Bloom trade deadline coming soon.

 

It's one area he has done pretty well, unless you count the 2022 non-fire sale against him.