Devers signs 11 year $331 million extension

[redsoxrules]

2024:

 

Devers to 1B

Yoshida to DH

Sign Matt Chapman for 3B (notin's suggestion)

 

Casas? Hmmm...now I'm stumped.

 

Trade Yoshida and put Casas at DH

[Old Red]

Trade Yoshida and put Casas at DH

 

Wow! After just one year some want to make drastic changes.

[moonslav59]

Wow! After just one year some want to make drastic changes.

 

We need to improve the D.

 

We are NOT trading Devers, so the next two targets are Casas and Yoshida (or maybe Duran.) It's just speculation, but running out that same formation, next year is begging for trouble, again.

 

Any other suggestions?

[moonslav59]

Trade Yoshida and put Casas at DH

 

I'm thinking, at least one from Casas, Duran or Yoshida might have to be traded to improve the D by enough to make a difference.

 

Alternating Casas and Yoshida at DH would help some, but is that enough?

[mvp 78]

We need to improve the D.

 

We are NOT trading Devers, so the next two targets are Casas and Yoshida (or maybe Duran.) It's just speculation, but running out that same formation, next year is begging for trouble, again.

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Yoshida just isn't a likely trade option with all that contract left. That's why Casas makes more sense IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRADE SOMEONE. They may try to sell high on Duran too. However, I don't believe they will trade either. I think Devers is at 3B for a few more years, Duran is somewhere in the OF rotation and Casas is trying to figure out 1B. Yoshida maybe starts to get more DH reps if they don't re-sign Turner, but still sees time in LF. I don't see those 4 guys leaving in the next two years unless they change the composition of the FO.

[notin]

Because of increased pitching velocity and spin rates, I assume?

 

Those are two big reasons.

 

Also players are bigger and stronger now. Players start younger now. And play all year round now. The proliferation of youth and travel baseball has helped. Inceased talent pool as more countries contribute players. (How many Japanese players did Drysdale face again? Heck, how many Dominicans?)

 

Or we could believe a bunch of white guys born in the 1930s and 40s were just flat out genetically superior at baseball through some freakish evolutionary quirk…

[mvp 78]

Those are two big reasons.

 

Also players are bigger and stronger now. Players start younger now. And play all year round now. The proliferation of youth and travel baseball has helped. Inceased talent pool as more countries contribute players. (How many Japanese players did Drysdale face again? Heck, how many Dominicans?)

 

Or we could believe a bunch of white guys born in the 1930s and 40s were just flat out genetically superior at baseball through some freakish evolutionary quirk…

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....... WTF?

[moonslav59]

Yoshida just isn't a likely trade option with all that contract left. That's why Casas makes more sense IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRADE SOMEONE. They may try to sell high on Duran too. However, I don't believe they will trade either. I think Devers is at 3B for a few more years, Duran is somewhere in the OF rotation and Casas is trying to figure out 1B. Yoshida maybe starts to get more DH reps if they don't re-sign Turner, but still sees time in LF. I don't see those 4 guys leaving in the next two years unless they change the composition of the FO.

 

I don't see us trading Casas, either. The chances are so close to zero, mentioning it is pointless. Trading Duran and or Dugo might happen, but Dugo is our best defensive OF'er, this year, not counting the soon to depart Duvall.

 

Casas and Duran have trade value. Yoshida might have a little, if we pay 20-30% of his contract. To me, we can't improve the D enough by playing those 3 in the field, nearly everyday.

 

With Turner leaving, we have room to park one of them, or alternate Casas and Yoshida, there, but we'll still suck at 2-3 positions, again.

[Old Red]

We need to improve the D.

 

We are NOT trading Devers, so the next two targets are Casas and Yoshida (or maybe Duran.) It's just speculation, but running out that same formation, next year is begging for trouble, again.

 

Any other suggestions?

 

You really want me to answer this. I would get rid of someone who wouldn’t have made this mess on D in the first place. I’ll say again. Casas, Raffy, and Yoshida will all be manning their positions next year for the Red Sox. The only if will be where Yoshida will reside depending on Turner.

[notin]

Yoshida just isn't a likely trade option with all that contract left. That's why Casas makes more sense IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRADE SOMEONE. They may try to sell high on Duran too. However, I don't believe they will trade either. I think Devers is at 3B for a few more years, Duran is somewhere in the OF rotation and Casas is trying to figure out 1B. Yoshida maybe starts to get more DH reps if they don't re-sign Turner, but still sees time in LF. I don't see those 4 guys leaving in the next two years unless they change the composition of the FO.

 

1. Yeah they are very very likely to keep Devers at 3b, probably at least until Casas reaches free agency.

2. Chapman to 3b/Devers to 1b is a Superior Defensive Pipe Dream

3. Duran absolutely should be traded. His still worth a lot based on his current performance, remaining control and pre-arb years left. Plus I think it’s a high sell, although chances he reverts completely back to the 2021 version are probably non-existent.

4. The Sox probably trade Verdugo instead…

[notin]

You really want me to answer this. I would get rid of someone who wouldn’t have made this mess on D in the first place. I’ll say again. Casas, Raffy, and Yoshida will all be manning their positions next year for the Red Sox. The only if will be where Yoshida will reside depending on Turner.

 

You’d get rid of someone who wouldn’t have made this mess?? Does that mean you’d keep someone who would have?

[mvp 78]

1. Yeah they are very very likely to keep Devers at 3b, probably at least until Casas reaches free agency.

2. Chapman to 3b/Devers to 1b is a Superior Defensive Pipe Dream

3. Duran absolutely should be traded. His still worth a lot based on his current performance, remaining control and pre-arb years left. Plus I think it’s a high sell, although chances he reverts completely back to the 2021 version are probably non-existent.

4. The Sox probably trade Verdugo instead…

 

I agree with #4 or at least that they attempt to try #4 and Bloom just says "well, we tried it, but we didn't get the right value" and he's still here on Opening Day.

[Old Red]

You’d get rid of someone who wouldn’t have made this mess?? Does that mean you’d keep someone who would have?

 

You got me, but you know what I meant. Bloom made the mess. Everyone talks on here about how bad the D is, and rightfully so, and Cora agrees too. Bloom just doesn’t seem to care.

[Bellhorn04]

Those are two big reasons.

 

Also players are bigger and stronger now. Players start younger now. And play all year round now. The proliferation of youth and travel baseball has helped. Inceased talent pool as more countries contribute players. (How many Japanese players did Drysdale face again? Heck, how many Dominicans?)

 

Or we could believe a bunch of white guys born in the 1930s and 40s were just flat out genetically superior at baseball through some freakish evolutionary quirk…

 

Not sure bigger and stronger automatically translates to better at baseball.

 

And the 2023 Red Sox are putting on a clinic in baseball gaffes, no? Maybe the "lack of attention to fundamentals" is a real thing now.

[Old Red]

Those are two big reasons.

 

Also players are bigger and stronger now. Players start younger now. And play all year round now. The proliferation of youth and travel baseball has helped. Inceased talent pool as more countries contribute players. (How many Japanese players did Drysdale face again? Heck, how many Dominicans?)

 

Or we could believe a bunch of white guys born in the 1930s and 40s were just flat out genetically superior at baseball through some freakish evolutionary quirk…

I don’t know about other countries, but i don’t think as many kids are playing baseball as much today in this one.

[notin]

I don’t know about other countries, but i don’t think as many kids are playing baseball as much today in this one.

 

You’d be wrong.

 

More kids play today. And play longer thanks to the proliferation of travel leagues over the past 20 years or so. And now travel leagues even play through the winter in northern states on indoor stadiums and (unfortunately for the parents) round-the-clock schedules during tournaments.

 

So not only are more playing, they’re playing more often.

 

Not to mention the truckloads of Dominican players teams bring in for tryouts now, grabbing every 16 yo on the island and giving him a shot…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don’t know about other countries, but i don’t think as many kids are playing baseball as much today in this one.

 

For percentage of population, you're probably right -- for a lot of reasons. As far as the "baseball gaffes" spectators have been suffering through lately, chalk it up to less player instincts or muscle memory -- whatever you want to call it, kids just aren't growing up getting the diamond reps they once did, playing their own versions of playground or cul-de-sac baseball all summer long.

 

But posters should also remember that those MLB clubs from 40-50 years ago were just as diversified as nowadays. The Reds, A's and O's of the 70s were mixtures of good to great blacks, whites and Latinos.

 

In Boston, the last MLB city to integrate, the Impossible Dream team is fondly famous for starting Red Sox Nation as we know it. But they couldn't have won without multi-cultural contributions. Who can name the six different blacks or Latinos that started World Series games for the '67 Sox?

[moonslav59]

You really want me to answer this. I would get rid of someone who wouldn’t have made this mess on D in the first place. I’ll say again. Casas, Raffy, and Yoshida will all be manning their positions next year for the Red Sox. The only if will be where Yoshida will reside depending on Turner.

 

I am nearly certain, none will be traded or change positions, except one or two (rotation) moving to DH.

 

You didn't answer the question. If you could choose, which one do you trade?

[notin]

Not sure bigger and stronger automatically translates to better at baseball.

 

And the 2023 Red Sox are putting on a clinic in baseball gaffes, no? Maybe the "lack of attention to fundamentals" is a real thing now.

 

 

1. While “bigger and stronger” might not translate on its own, bigger and stronger baseball players do lead to better ball over smaller, weaker ones in general.

 

2. The 2023 Red Sox are a single example that doesn’t indict the entirety of the system. “Lack of fundamentals” is an overused term. The 2023 Red Sox are showing two simple facts in that 1. Not any player can play any position and 2. Teams that tried to adapt to some rule changes didn’t give themselves the advantage they were going for.

 

Kike should not have been left at shortstop that look in. We all agree. But is Story a “bad fundamental” shortstop? Is Kike a “bad fundamental” center fielder?

 

Also can people stop crying “bad fundamentals!” every time a player fouls off a bunt attempt?!? Bunting isn’t as easy as people seem to think and laying one down on a 98mph fastball is very, very tough. This is like calling a swing and miss by a hitter “bad fundamentals”…

[moonslav59]

You got me, but you know what I meant. Bloom made the mess. Everyone talks on here about how bad the D is, and rightfully so, and Cora agrees too. Bloom just doesn’t seem to care.

 

I think nobody expected Casas to be this bad on D.

 

Some questioned Kike at SS on D, but nobody expected triple bad.

 

It's not about caring. It's about guessing wrongly, like the rest of us, except you, of course.

[notin]

Not sure bigger and stronger automatically translates to better at baseball.

 

And the 2023 Red Sox are putting on a clinic in baseball gaffes, no? Maybe the "lack of attention to fundamentals" is a real thing now.

 

Also bear in mind the medical advances. If you were a mega-talented pitcher in or before the 1960s or 70s and you tore a ligament in your pitching elbow, which probably happened to hundreds of guys, your career ended. As in, to get a non-baseball job. Nowadays I think every team has at least one guy whose career was extended by Tommy John surgery…

[moonslav59]

I think the pool of good players expanded for many of the reasons given, here, and expansion leveled it out.

 

We have not had expansion for a long time. I think the talent level is higher, and the young talent, today is off the charts better.

[mvp 78]

You got me, but you know what I meant. Bloom made the mess. Everyone talks on here about how bad the D is, and rightfully so, and Cora agrees too. Bloom just doesn’t seem to care.

 

I agree that it's very weird that he put together a team with bad defense and a horrible rotation.

[notin]

I think the pool of good players expanded for many of the reasons given, here, and expansion leveled it out.

 

We have not had expansion for a long time. I think the talent level is higher, and the young talent, today is off the charts better.

 

Expansion certainly has diluted talent, but this had a bigger effect in the 1960s and 70s when the league went from 16 teams to 24 teams (50% more players!!). Nowadays this is offset and completely countered by the number of foreign-born players in the league, particularly the Asian talent pool which was non-existent back then. Latin American players were common in the 60s, but not like today.

 

One factor is diluting the pool has been contract exclusivity that prevented athletes from playing other sports, even recreationally. 50-60 years ago, there were players whose off-season job was another sport. Now, we don’t see that at all. And since other sports often have a faster path to the top level, many athletes choose them over MLB. Former NFL quarterbacks Drew Henson, Chris Winke and Cody Brennan all toiled for a few years in the minors before retiring from baseball to focus on football. Former Blue Jay second baseman Danny Ainge made MLB at a young age, but struggled mightily and instead chose basketball.

 

I think this is a big part of the reason African American athletes are so sparse at the MLB level - a lot of them found a faster path to the top levels in other sports and were talented enough to make it happen…

[Bellhorn04]

Also bear in mind the medical advances. If you were a mega-talented pitcher in or before the 1960s or 70s and you tore a ligament in your pitching elbow, which probably happened to hundreds of guys, your career ended. As in, to get a non-baseball job. Nowadays I think every team has at least one guy whose career was extended by Tommy John surgery…

 

True, but pitchers also seem to be getting injured at a higher rate due to the increased velocity and spin rates.

[Old Red]

I am nearly certain, none will be traded or change positions, except one or two (rotation) moving to DH.

 

You didn't answer the question. If you could choose, which one do you trade?

 

Definitely not Casas, or Raffy, so if anyone I guess it would be Yoshida. Everyone is speculating on here that Raffy could just move over to 1B, and he would be better, but that is not a certainty. Either way it’s not in Bloom’s DNA to trade any of them. They are what they are.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Old Red

[Old Red]

True, but pitchers also seem to be getting injured at a higher rate due to the increased velocity and spin rates.

 

Pitches not only threw a lot more innings, but a lot more pitches with less time between starts. It doesn’t seem there was anywhere near as many arm problems back in the old days.

[notin]

True, but pitchers also seem to be getting injured at a higher rate due to the increased velocity and spin rates.

 

One culprit is the growing proliferation of the slider and the damage it does to the elbow.

 

Increased velocity is an issue as well, especially at an early age. Lucas Giolito, for example, was throwing 98-100mph in high school and had TJ before he graduated. But higher radar gun readings lead to scholarships and signing bonuses so pitchers try to max out early on. It’s not like Giolito (and many others) needed to throw 98mph to get high school hitters out…

[moonslav59]

Definitely not Casas, or Raffy, so if anyone I guess it would be Yoshida. Everyone is speculating on here that Raffy could just move over to 1B, and he would be better, but that is not a certainty. Either way it’s not in Bloom’s DNA to trade any of them. They are what they are.

 

It is speculation, but Devers has pretty good footwork and range. His main issue is throwing, so it seems like he would be an immediate upgrade on D over Casas at 1B.

 

Without adding a plus defender at 3B, it would not really be worth it.

 

Moving Casas to DH logjams LF with Yoshida, Duran and Refsnyder all better suited for LF or DH.

 

Playing one in CF makes that important slot worse.

[notin]

Pitches not only threw a lot more innings, but a lot more pitches with less time between starts. It doesn’t seem there was anywhere near as many arm problems back in the old days.

 

A lot of that is simply asset management. If you invest $250mill in a pitcher for 8 years, you don’t want him to blow out his arm and miss two or three of them through straight up overwork. (Think Price and Sale.) Also having 8 man bullpens makes this much easier nowadays…