Devers signs 11 year $331 million extension

[notin]

It’s amazing to me how anyone can predict anything from Sale even if he does stay on the mound let alone anything good, which he hasn’t been since early 2018.

 

I didn’t predict anything with regards to Sale. I made a conditional statement…

[Bellhorn04]

If Wacha, Nate, and JD were so great, why did we finish in last place?

 

That's always a bad road to go down, IMO. Because we also finished last with Raffy.

[Old Red]

I didn’t predict anything with regards to Sale. I made a conditional statement…

 

I didn’t say you did, but I AM saying I’m not counting on anything from Sale this year. Zero, Zip, nata. If he does show up, and produces then great.

[Old Red]

Sale's 147 IP in 2019 was more than Nate's in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2022 plus more than Nate's 2019 + 2020 combined.

 

Sale's 147 IP in 2019 is more than any season by Wacha since his 165 in 2017.

 

Maybe, you meant to say 2019.

I’m not even talking about anything to do with Nate, or Wacha at all, but only Sale. No I said the last time Sale was much of anything good was the first part of 2018. Sale wasn’t so good in 2019.

[notin]

That's always a bad road to go down, IMO. Because we also finished last with Raffy.

 

And because some folks like to act as though all last place teams finished with records of 55-107 or worse.

 

Last place or not, the Sox won 78 games. They missed the postseason by 8 games, which is fewer than the number of extra inning losses they had. Not to mention the blown saves in the ninth inning. Since the league added Central divisions, only 4 teams have finished in last place with as many as 78 wins. The Red Sox, who did it in 2015 and 2022, are the only team to do so since 2006, when the Mariners won 78 and finished in last. (The 2005 Nationals finished last with a record of 81-81 as the only other team.)

 

Last time the Sox did this, they followed up with 3 straight AL East titles. Obviously that shouldn’t be the expectation here, but an improvement of 8 games or so to get into the postseason isn’t exactly a ridiculous expectation. Certainly a lot had to go right, as it does for any pennant winning team. And this current team still has a glaring middle infield hole, and could probably use more pitching depth. But we’re not looking at a team that has 38 games to make up, either…

[Old Red]

And because some folks like to act as though all last place teams finished with records of 55-107 or worse.

 

Last place or not, the Sox won 78 games. They missed the postseason by 8 games, which is fewer than the number of extra inning losses they had. Not to mention the blown saves in the ninth inning. Since the league added Central divisions, only 4 teams have finished in last place with as many as 78 wins. The Red Sox, who did it in 2015 and 2022, are the only team to do so since 2006, when the Mariners won 78 and finished in last. (The 2005 Nationals finished last with a record of 81-81 as the only other team.)

 

Last time the Sox did this, they followed up with 3 straight AL East titles. Obviously that shouldn’t be the expectation here, but an improvement of 8 games or so to get into the postseason isn’t exactly a ridiculous expectation. Certainly a lot had to go right, as it does for any pennant winning team. And this current team still has a glaring middle infield hole, and could probably use more pitching depth. But we’re not looking at a team that has 38 games to make up, either…

 

Anyone who is trying to make sense, or stick up for the 2022 Red Sox is doing Nothing, but trying to polish a turd.

[notin]

Anyone who is trying to make sense, or stick up for the 2022 Red Sox is doing Nothing, but trying to polish a turd.

 

Says the leader of the “all last place teams finished 55-107 or worse” mafia.

 

Please highlight any and all inaccuracies in my post…

[notin]

I didn’t say you did, but I AM saying I’m not counting on anything from Sale this year. Zero, Zip, nata. If he does show up, and produces then great.

 

Oh I never said the Sox can depend on him. But I do think the 2023 season depends heavily on his recovery. If Sale can make a decent amount of starts, it greatly increases the likelihood of making the postseason. If he contributes less than 50 IP once again, the chances go down significantly…

[Old Red]

Says the leader of the “all last place teams finished 55-107 or worse” mafia.

 

Please highlight any and all inaccuracies in my post…

 

We have a couple of crybaby fans on here who say if we played in another Div we wouldn’t have finished in last place last year, and if we hadn’t played in that tough AL East we wouldn’t have had to play those tough AL East teams so much, and we might have won more games. Well the Red Sox do play in the AL East, and have for many years, so just accept the fact that the Red Sox sucked last year, and we’re a losing last place team, and until they start playing games again, and prove otherwise they still are.

[Old Red]

Oh I never said the Sox can depend on him. But I do think the 2023 season depends heavily on his recovery. If Sale can make a decent amount of starts, it greatly increases the likelihood of making the postseason. If he contributes less than 50 IP once again, the chances go down significantly…

 

Sale hasn’t been a good pitcher since 2018, which is 5 long years ago, so why do you think even if he makes a decent amount of starts he will be effective let alone any good? Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs, and Chris frail would be the reason why, or not.

[notin]

We have a couple of crybaby fans on here who say if we played in another Div we wouldn’t have finished in last place last year, and if we hadn’t played in that tough AL East we wouldn’t have had to play those tough AL East teams so much, and we might have won more games. Well the Red Sox do play in the AL East, and have for many years, so just accept the fact that the Red Sox sucked last year, and we’re a losing last place team, and until they start playing games again, and prove otherwise they still are.

 

Ok I rest my case on the “all last place teams…” thing.

 

I never said they were anything but a last place team. Rather I’ve acknowledged a more accurate representation of this squad and not tried to make sure no one sees anything but “last place”. Or the even more misleading “the even finished behind the Orioles.” While they did finish behind them, the Orioles were a pretty good team that finished with a better record than half the league.

 

You even tried to assert the 68 win Rangers were better positioned to make a run because they finished in 4th place, despite 1. the Rangers won 10 fewer games than Boston 2. The Rangers finished 10 games further out of the postseason than Boston and 3. The Rangers finished 17 games further off the division lead than Boston.

 

The Sox need to improve. But 78 wins is a much better starting point than 65 wins. I would think that would be obvious…

[mvp 78]

He has to stay on the mound first, and that’s bigger than a big if.

 

Eovaldi doesn’t have that great of a track record either. Aside from 2021, he’s just an ok pitcher.

[mvp 78]

Eovaldi and Wacha combined for 43 starts. If the Sox get 43 combined starts out of Sale and Paxton, that should be a marked improvement…

 

Was that my argument? Don’t remember mentioning Paxton.

[dgalehouse]

That's always a bad road to go down, IMO. Because we also finished last with Raffy.

 

And with Alex Cora as the skipper.

[mvp 78]

It’s amazing to me how anyone can predict anything from Sale even if he does stay on the mound let alone anything good, which he hasn’t been since early 2018.

 

Not good since early 2018?

 

2018-2019: 10 fWAR

 

His 2019 season would be a godsend to this staff right now. We’d do backflips.

[Old Red]

Eovaldi doesn’t have that great of a track record either. Aside from 2021, he’s just an ok pitcher.

 

I was only talking about Sale. Evol is gone.

[notin]

I was only talking about Sale. Evol is gone.

 

Sale is basically his replacement. Both are oft-injured starting pitchers. Eovaldi has been more reliable of late…

[moonslav59]

That's always a bad road to go down, IMO. Because we also finished last with Raffy.

 

Indeed, but when people talk about improving on 2022, we should focus on the 2022 Nate, Bogey and others, and not the glory days of 2018 and to a lesser extent 2021.

 

The additions of Yoshia, Turner and more playing time from Story and Kike should make up for the losses of the 2022 Bogey and JD, but probably not the 2018 Bogey and JD.

 

Wacha, Hill and Nate started 69 games, between them, so it's more like needing to replace 2 SP'ers from 2022 not 3.

 

Kluber should replace one at maybe an even clip. 15-20 starts more from Whitlock and Bello should replace the rest of those starts. Pivetta stays the same, and Sale, Paxton, Mata, Walter, Crawford, Wink, Seabold and maybe Murphy need to replace this:

GS'd in 2022

14 Wink 5.89

12 Craw 5.47

5 Seabold 11.29

3 Davis 5.47

 

Sale & Paxton may or may not reach 33 starts, but we now have Mata, walter and Murphy to add to the same mix as last year. That seems good, but who knows?

[moonslav59]

I’m not even talking about anything to do with Nate, or Wacha at all, but only Sale. No I said the last time Sale was much of anything good was the first part of 2018. Sale wasn’t so good in 2019.

 

Sale was our second best SP'er in 2019 and his 2.1 bWAR would have placed him 3rd among our starters in 2022. He might not have been great in 2019, but if he gives us those numbers in 2023, he's an upgrade over most of our SP'ers in 2022, whether you want to talk about Wacha, nate or whoever, or not.

[moonslav59]

Anyone who is trying to make sense, or stick up for the 2022 Red Sox is doing Nothing, but trying to polish a turd.

 

Any body wallowing in the misery of 2022, as if it was the worst season, ever, and seem to be almost hoping we repeat 2023 is doing more to the turd than I want to say.

[moonslav59]

We have a couple of crybaby fans on here who say if we played in another Div we wouldn’t have finished in last place last year, and if we hadn’t played in that tough AL East we wouldn’t have had to play those tough AL East teams so much, and we might have won more games. Well the Red Sox do play in the AL East, and have for many years, so just accept the fact that the Red Sox sucked last year, and we’re a losing last place team, and until they start playing games again, and prove otherwise they still are.

 

Sounds like you really enjoy saying this.

 

You can ignore context, as you usually do. You can choose misery and pessimism all you want.

 

Nobody is polishing a turd, but some are seemingly enjoying squishing their fingers in it all winter long.

 

There: I said it. I must be overanalyzing, again.

[Maxbialystock]

Sale was our second best SP'er in 2019 and his 2.1 bWAR would have placed him 3rd among our starters in 2022. He might not have been great in 2019, but if he gives us those numbers in 2023, he's an upgrade over most of our SP'ers in 2022, whether you want to talk about Wacha, nate or whoever, or not.

 

Absolutely stunning post--ever the realist. That said, I hope 2019 Sale is not our third best starter this season.

[Old Red]

Sounds like you really enjoy saying this.

 

You can ignore context, as you usually do. You can choose misery and pessimism all you want.

 

Nobody is polishing a turd, but some are seemingly enjoying squishing their fingers in it all winter long.

 

There: I said it. I must be overanalyzing, again.

 

This is from the one who was in, and giving daily wildcard standings updates, but then at the first sign of trouble jumped ship while I stayed right to the end of mathematical elimination. You do more polishing than anybody on here rather it be Bloom, or the last place team.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sale had a bad record in '19 but still had big strikeout games, like when he fanned 17 Rockies (but didn't win because he couldn't hear me screaming at the TV not to throw Arenado a fastball). He actually just beat ERod for team lead in Ks with 218... and no Red Sox pitcher has broken 200 since.

 

Sale helped the Sox make the playoffs in '21, but was just coming off TJ rehab and was only really effective vs. a bad Baltimore club. Two years later, his arm should be plenty rested, at least. But we just have no idea to what extent a healthy and happy Chris Sale will recover and regain his mojo.

 

It's similar with Devers -- who played at an elite level swinging with one arm at the end of '21, and not so much swinging on one leg the second half of '22. The difference is, Raffy will be 26 this season. Chris will be 34...

[Old Red]

Any body wallowing in the misery of 2022, as if it was the worst season, ever, and seem to be almost hoping we repeat 2023 is doing more to the turd than I want to say.

 

I’ll admit I have conflicting thoughts, because on 1 hand I never wanted Bloom hired in the first place, and want him gone, but on the other hand if that is to happen the Red Sox would pretty much have to suck this year, and I don’t want to happen, and want to see a winning, competitive team make the postseason. Wallowing in 2022? You make it sound like it was so long ago, but like I said until games are played again, and the Red Sox prove otherwise they are still that losing last place team.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

This is from the one who was in, and giving daily wildcard standings updates, but then at the first sign of trouble jumped ship while I stayed right to the end of mathematical elimination. You do more polishing than anybody on here rather it be Bloom, or the last place team.

 

Not sure what giving daily WC updates as we neared elimination or any realistic chance of making the playoffs has to do with being the first or one of the first to give up on a horrible season. To me, it makes perfect sense, that once we seemed to be out of it, I gave up and wanted a fire sale or even a mini fire sale.

 

I'm not bragging about being near the first to give up. I'm not proud of it, either. It seems like those calling the 2022 season a turd are now upset I disliked our chances earlier than they did, for some reason.

 

We sucked in 2022- maybe not as badly as some think we did- maybe more.

 

I certainly don't view the 2023 team, which is already way different from 2022 as being a turd, until we start playing games. You sure can, and seem to want Bloom to fail, but I don't want to overanalyze or anything.

[moonslav59]

Sale had a bad record in '19 but still had big strikeout games, like when he fanned 17 Rockies (but didn't win because he couldn't hear me screaming at the TV not to throw Arenado a fastball). He actually just beat ERod for team lead in Ks with 218... and no Red Sox pitcher has broken 200 since.

 

Sale helped the Sox make the playoffs in '21, but was just coming off TJ rehab and was only really effective vs. a bad Baltimore club. Two years later, his arm should be plenty rested, at least. But we just have no idea to what extent a healthy and happy Chris Sale will recover and regain his mojo.

 

It's similar with Devers -- who played at an elite level swinging with one arm at the end of '21, and not so much swinging on one leg the second half of '22. The difference is, Raffy will be 26 this season. Chris will be 34...

 

I can understand why anyone might have zero faith in Sale. I'm thinking that counting Sale + Paxton for anything near 30 GS'd COMBINED is likely setting ourselves up for disappointment, but the guy may still have a big plus to give us, and he's likely got more upside than almost anyone on our staff. It's not like he was in rehab throwing 87 mph.

[Old Red]

Not sure what giving daily WC updates as we neared elimination or any realistic chance of making the playoffs has to do with being the first or one of the first to give up on a horrible season. To me, it makes perfect sense, that once we seemed to be out of it, I gave up and wanted a fire sale or even a mini fire sale.

 

I'm not bragging about being near the first to give up. I'm not proud of it, either. It seems like those calling the 2022 season a turd are now upset I disliked our chances earlier than they did, for some reason.

 

We sucked in 2022- maybe not as badly as some think we did- maybe more.

 

I certainly don't view the 2023 team, which is already way different from 2022 as being a turd, until we start playing games. You sure can, and seem to want Bloom to fail, but I don't want to overanalyze or anything.

NO ONE said Anything about the 2023 as being a turd, but you.

[moonslav59]

NO ONE said Anything about the 2023 as being a turd, but you.

 

I must have overanalyzed this...

 

Wallowing in 2022? You make it sound like it was so long ago, but like I said until games are played again, and the Red Sox prove otherwise they are still that losing last place team.

[Old Red]

I must have overanalyzed this...

 

Wallowing in 2022? You make it sound like it was so long ago, but like I said until games are played again, and the Red Sox prove otherwise they are still that losing last place team.

Has the 2023 season started yet? The 2022 team is still the team on record. It’s not that hard to comprehend that, or at least it shouldn’t be.