Corey Kluber signs with Red Sox

[mvp 78]

Beginning in the 2017-18 offseason, any team that is over the luxury tax threshold and signs a Major League free agent that has rejected a qualifying offer will lose $1 million from their international signing pool in the following signing period. A team that is not over the luxury tax would only forfeit $500,000 of its signing pool in the subsequent period.

 

The international pool penalties only apply if you sign an FA who received a QO.

 

I don't know if moon is talking about INT'L money, I'm talking about MLB Draft money.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know if moon is talking about INT'L money, I'm talking about MLB Draft money.

 

I don't know what he's talking about.

[mvp 78]

@IanCundall

If the Red Sox had got under the luxury tax at the deadline, they would have received picks 70 & 71 in the 2023 Draft for Bogaerts & Eovaldi. Instead they will receive picks 133 & 134. They also miss out on ~$1 million in additional bonus pool money going off 2022 slot values.

 

The total draft pool money goes down about 1M based on the change in comp picks from 70/71 to 133/134.

[moonslav59]

I don't know if moon is talking about INT'L money, I'm talking about MLB Draft money.

 

I did mention INT'L money a while ago, and corrected myself. This time, I meant draft slot bonus money, that you just posted about.

 

That $1M might mean more than the slot pick differentials.

[Bellhorn04]

I did mention INT'L money a while ago, and corrected myself. This time, I meant draft slot bonus money, that you just posted about.

 

That $1M might mean more than the slot pick differentials.

 

But the money is directly tied to the slot pick differentials, right? They're a package.

[mvp 78]

But the money is directly tied to the slot pick differentials, right? They're a package.

 

Yes, it's just due to where the picks are slotted. It's not additional money aside from that.

[moonslav59]

But the money is directly tied to the slot pick differentials, right? They're a package.

 

Yes, but IMO, the added bonus money is more important that the higher draft slots. We can send the $1M added bonus money on any draftee, not just the comp picks.

 

Yes, they are tied together.

 

We could waste the 70th pick, but use the $1M extra to draft a better player in round 2 or 3.

[Hugh2]

At the end of the day the Sox still net two picks from Losing Bogaerts/Eovaldi. Being tax payers doesn’t change that, with me it’s the reduced bonus pool money that stings. They will have 1 million less to spend than they otherwise could have.

 

It’s always worth it to go over if you have a shot at winning a World Series. Sox guessed wrong and paid a steep price.

[Bellhorn04]

At the end of the day the Sox still net two picks from Losing Bogaerts/Eovaldi. Being tax payers doesn’t change that, with me it’s the reduced bonus pool money that stings. They will have 1 million less to spend than they otherwise could have.

 

It’s always worth it to go over if you have a shot at winning a World Series. Sox guessed wrong and paid a steep price.

 

They had a shot at making the playoffs. That was what drove the decision. It was an understandable error IMHO. No one knows on July 31 what's going to happen the rest of the way. If you're 10 back you're dead, but not if you're 3 back.

[Hugh2]

They had a shot at making the playoffs. That was what drove the decision. It was an understandable error IMHO. No one knows on July 31 what's going to happen the rest of the way. If you're 10 back you're dead, but not if you're 3 back.

 

To be true, I defended the position at the time for this very same reason.

 

They took a similar strategy In 2021 and it paid off, but they also had a lot more luck on the health front. Which oddly enough seems to be this team’s strategy. They’re banking on being healthy.

 

It still looks horrible in hindsight, but that’s the key word there….hindsight.

[notin]

They had a shot at making the playoffs. That was what drove the decision. It was an understandable error IMHO. No one knows on July 31 what's going to happen the rest of the way. If you're 10 back you're dead, but not if you're 3 back.

 

And to be fair, they didn’t know Chris Sale couldn’t ride a bike at the time…

[mvp 78]

And to be fair, they didn’t know Chris Sale couldn’t ride a bike at the time…

 

At this point, we can't allow him on a stationary bike. Even posting "boat sail" emoji's on Sale Day may cause him injury.

[mvp 78]

To be true, I defended the position at the time for this very same reason.

 

They took a similar strategy In 2021 and it paid off, but they also had a lot more luck on the health front. Which oddly enough seems to be this team’s strategy. They’re banking on being healthy.

 

It still looks horrible in hindsight, but that’s the key word there….hindsight.

 

Wrong. You and Bell were both wrong. A lot of posters were saying at the time that they needed to sell because the team wouldn't make the playoffs. Plugging your ears and saying "well, I guess in hindsight it was horrible" is just silly. You were wrong at the time. Just admit it.

[moonslav59]

Wrong. You and Bell were both wrong. A lot of posters were saying at the time that they needed to sell because the team wouldn't make the playoffs. Plugging your ears and saying "well, I guess in hindsight it was horrible" is just silly. You were wrong at the time. Just admit it.

 

To compare where the 2021 team was at the deadline with the 2022 team is a joke, IMO.

 

It was foresight not hindsight, all along.

 

It was a big mistake to at least not trade JD. It was also a mistake not trading everything not tied down.

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong. You and Bell were both wrong. A lot of posters were saying at the time that they needed to sell because the team wouldn't make the playoffs. Plugging your ears and saying "well, I guess in hindsight it was horrible" is just silly. You were wrong at the time. Just admit it.

 

I'll never admit any such thing. I've been consistent and I'm totally comfortable with my position.

 

3 GAMES OUT WITH SALE AND OTHERS EXPECTED BACK.

 

I thought our chances were lousy and I'm sure Bloom did too. But not so bad as to throw them away.

 

If you and moon want to keep at it we can keep saying the same things for a long time. Like you two, I obviously have time to burn.

[mvp 78]

I'll never admit any such thing. I've been consistent and I'm totally comfortable with my position.

 

3 GAMES OUT WITH SALE AND OTHERS EXPECTED BACK.

 

I thought our chances were lousy and I'm sure Bloom did too. But not so bad as to throw them away.

 

If you and moon want to keep at it we can keep saying the same things for a long time. Like you two, I obviously have time to burn.

 

I don't know what you're insinuating.

[Hugh2]

Wrong. You and Bell were both wrong. A lot of posters were saying at the time that they needed to sell because the team wouldn't make the playoffs. Plugging your ears and saying "well, I guess in hindsight it was horrible" is just silly. You were wrong at the time. Just admit it.

 

Pretty sure I defended it, at the time it looked like they could make the playoffs, and it looked like they would get healthier down the stretch. Holding onto JDM, and Eovaldi (as bad as it looks now) was a perfectly defensible position. It fits the “sustainable competitiveness” that is their plan. While one could argue in many ways this plan has been poorly executed in theory I’ve always been for it. This is why I’m generally labeled a bloom lover in here.

[notin]

At this point, we can't allow him on a stationary bike. Even posting "boat sail" emoji's on Sale Day may cause him injury.

 

The mere act of removing him from the Injured List is enough to get him on the Injured List…

[Deja Doh]

I still think counting on Sale and Paxton as just one SP'er makes sense. The big wish would be they both don't go on the IL at the same exact times.

 

In theory, a healthy staff would allow us to put Whitlock back in the pen, but I would not like to see us jerk him back there, after telling him he will be the SP'er in 2023.

 

Gotta love this move.

 

I only hope Bloom does not think he's done.

 

We need a SS and I'd like to see another pitcher- maybe Chafin or Fulmer.

 

Forget the reported trade talk for Wendle: trade for Rojas, instead.

 

Assume we add Andrus or Rojas and Chafin or Fulmer. Find our weakest 2 slots on the 26 and think about how they compare to the previous 3 years:

 

1. L Yoshida LF

2. R Story 2B

3. L Devers 3B

4. R Turner DH

5. L Casas 1B

6. R Kike CF

7. L Dugo RF

8. R Adrus/Rojas SS

9. L McGuire

Bench

R Refsnyder RF/CF (Dugo struggles vs lefties)

R Wong C (McGuire bats lefty)

R Arroyo 2B

R Dalbec or L EValdez or L Duran

 

SP1 Sale

SP2 Kluber

SP3 Whitlock

SP4 Bello

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Paxton (Mata, Crawford, Wink, Walter, Seabold, Murphy)

 

RP1 Jansen

RP2 Chafin/Fulmer

RP3 Martin

RP4 Houck

RP5 Schreiber

RP6 Barnes

RP7 Joely

RP8 Mills (option remaining) or Crawford/Brasier/Taylor/Kelly/German or a SP'er converted

 

 

Looks like a minor league lineup with Devers, Turner and Story having to carry the team. We'll be lucky to win 70 games. Kluber is 4 years older than Eovaldi. Another bad decision.

[Deja Doh]

And if we only use one season, do we conclude Elvis Andrus is a better home run hitter than Bogaerts? There’s a reason most use multiple seasons. I prefer 3 years worth myself…

 

Andrus isn't a better home run hitter than Bogaerts. He was a solid player at Texas, but he's getting older and injured.

[moonslav59]

Looks like a minor league lineup with Devers, Turner and Story having to carry the team. We'll be lucky to win 70 games. Kluber is 4 years older than Eovaldi. Another bad decision.

 

To me, the line-up looks better than 2022's OPS:

 

.694 C (maybe the same)

.683 1B

.724 2B

.856 SS

.815 3B

.694 LF

.671 CF

.661 RF

.763 DH (maybe the same)

 

[moonslav59]

Andrus isn't a better home run hitter than Bogaerts. He was a solid player at Texas, but he's getting older and injured.

 

He'd just be a capable one year bridge to Mayer.

[Hugh2]

He'd just be a capable one year bridge to Mayer.

Or two year

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He'd just be a capable one year bridge to Mayer.

 

Or Rafaela. Or Romero. Or Paulino. Or Ravelo.

[Bellhorn04]

To compare where the 2021 team was at the deadline with the 2022 team is a joke, IMO.

 

It was foresight not hindsight, all along.

 

It was a big mistake to at least not trade JD. It was also a mistake not trading everything not tied down.

 

Frankly, it looks to me like the hopes of the 2023 team are resting on much the same things that the hopes of the 2022 team were at the deadline: Sale, Paxton, Bello and the other kiddie starters.

 

How come the 2022 hopes were dumb but the 2023 hopes are not?

[notin]

Frankly, it looks to me like the hopes of the 2023 team are resting on much the same things that the hopes of the 2022 team were at the deadline: Sale, Paxton, Bello and the other kiddie starters.

 

How come the 2022 hopes were dumb but the 2023 hopes are not?

 

I think we were all high on the 2022 team before Sale got hurt.

 

And right now, Sale isn’t hurt yet. As far as we know…

[Bellhorn04]

I think we were all high on the 2022 team before Sale got hurt.

 

And right now, Sale isn’t hurt yet. As far as we know…

 

You're missing my point. I'm talking about where the 2022 team was at the trade deadline, when moon says they should have quit on the season and had a fire sale.

[moonslav59]

Frankly, it looks to me like the hopes of the 2023 team are resting on much the same things that the hopes of the 2022 team were at the deadline: Sale, Paxton, Bello and the other kiddie starters.

 

How come the 2022 hopes were dumb but the 2023 hopes are not?

 

July hopes not March.

 

I also have way more promise in Bello and even Mata than I ever had in Wink, Crawford or Seabold.

 

I also see an improved line-up and vastly improved pen. It's the rotation and SS positions that may drag us down.

[Bellhorn04]

July hopes not March.

 

What's the big difference? We were only 3 back with 2 months to go.

 

Let's face it, the big difference is that we can dream of nice things in the offseason, because there are no actual games being played to spoil the fun.

[moonslav59]

You're missing my point. I'm talking about where the 2022 team was at the trade deadline, when moon says they should have quit on the season and had a fire sale.

 

1. Many felt they quit on the team, anyway by not adding noticeable help and by trading away Vaz and acquiring a .580 catcher in another deal.

2. I don't think adding JD to Vaz would be much more like "quitting."

3. I had a strong feeling 2022 was just not our year way before the deadline. It was just my opinion, and the fact that I'm not a firm believer in the crapshoot theory on winning a ring, I felt giving up on the slim odds and greatly improving our chances going forward far outweighed the choice to stay the course or still make the Pham, McGuire and Hosmer trades without the Vaz one. I get the fan aspect. I get the image of quitting aspect. I thought we should have had a sale at some level, then, and I'm sure of it, now. I'd have gone full fire sale, but keep Kike, as they extended him.

 

I can understand the other side of the issue and am not singing nah, nah, nah because in hindsight, it looks like some of us were right.

 

I wish we had the million dollars more in draft bonus money and higher picks. I wish we had a stronger farm and roster from the returns in trade. We'd have more options, now, had we strengthened our farm and roster, last deadline. That's all I'm looking at. I'm not the business guy thinking about losing too many fans or viewers.