Corey Kluber signs with Red Sox

[moonslav59]

That is kind of deceptive. I could say he is replacing Eovaldi or Wacha . In that case , the numbers would not look as favorable.

 

We can mix and match in many different combinations. Here is what we lost:

 

I'll use ERA, although I don't think is is the best measure:

 

GS'd Pitcher ERA

26 Hill 4.27

23 Wacha 3.32

20 Nate 3.87

34 Crawford, Wink, Seabold & Davis at over 6.00.

 

Mix and match as you wish, but these are the additions:

 

Expected

Whitlock 9 GS'd to 28-33 (3.45 ERA)

Bello 11 GS'd to 28-33 (Hopefully improving on his 4.71 ERA of 2022, but still way better than Crawinkold.)

Sale 2 GS'd to ???? (Always a guess)

Paxton 0 GS'd to ??? (Always a guess)

Kluber 0 GS'd to ??? (Depends who you compare him to.)

Mata, Walter & Murphy 0 GS'd to ???

 

(34 GS'd by Crawford, Wink, Seabold hopefully much less than 34 in 2023 or with better results than 2022.)

[Hugh2]

It's not just adding Kluber. They've committed to Whitlock as a SP'er and bulked up the pen to more than make up for his loss from there.

 

Bello is expected to make 20 more starts. While we don't know how good he will do in 2023, we also don't know how bringing Nate and Wacha back would work out either.

 

What about the 31 GSd by Crawford, Wink and Seabold at a 6.23 ERA being replaced along with Nate, Wacha and Hill?

 

Our rotation should be better in 2023 than it was in 2022. It's speculation, but so would having deGrom or Rodon.

 

You can't really complain what they've done with the pen. I think between Barnes/Schreiber/Martin/Jensen we should be fine late innings, and if the rotation is healthy there's a good chance we see a lot of Crawford/Paxton/Houck in there too. Mid year additions such as Mata could really help down the stretch as well.

 

The rotation has a lot of question marks, but technically you could say there's a ton of upside there as well. Optimistic view;

 

Sale comes back, and is a comeback player of the year. Pitches just a hair below elite. Ranked 5-10 in Cy young voting

Paxton comes back and gives you a sub 4.00 era and 120+ innings

Kluber gives you 150 innings + as a solid 3/4th type of guy

Bello wins ROY, the first homegrown capable starting pitcher out of Boston in a LONG time.

Whitlock shows you why he's so great and why the Sox moved him into the rotation.

Houck answers the question about being able pitch deep into games, because of a viable mid-rotation starter.

Pivetta - is good old reliable 4th starter Pivetta.

MYSTERY MAN? a mid-season trade, a pre-season trade, or perhaps a rookie from the minors answers the call.

 

Sox don't need all of that to happen to be great, and each one is perfectly plausible on its own.

 

But man, it's really hard to be optimistic after the last few seasons, health issues, and this off season.

[Old Red]

Kluber is better than Eovaldi, Wacha or Hill. Is he better than two of them combined?

 

Kluber was better than Wacha last year?

[mvp 78]

That is kind of deceptive. I could say he is replacing Eovaldi or Wacha . In that case , the numbers would not look as favorable.

 

Since 2016, Eovaldi has only thrown over 125 innings in a season ONCE. Kluber did that easily 4 times even though he missed full seasons due to injury.

 

Wacha's ERA the past few seasons: 4.76, 6.62, 5.05, 3.32. But Kluber's 4.34 makes him a ham and egger?

[moonslav59]

Kluber is better than Eovaldi, Wacha or Hill. Is he better than two of them combined?

 

Nate, Hill and Wacha, basically started as many games as 2 durable SP'ers combined.

 

If we assume Kluber starts 31 games, again, he replaces 1.5 of the lost big 3. More starts from Whitlock and Bello can make up for the other 1.5, which leaves Pivetta vs Pivetta and then Sale/Paxton/Mata/Walter and others ve the 6.00 ERA of Crawinkbold.

[mvp 78]

My beer mug is also half-full, but only because I had to chug half after looking at a rotation of past-their-primetimers and converted surgery comebackers.

 

I'd argue that they're still a last-place AL East team even if they add Wacha, who was just plain better than Kluber last year... but of course, Klubes, 36, at $10M is a lot better value than Wacha, 30, for $30M -- which he's surely anticipating, at least, for a three-year deal in this market. Wacha deserves it, anyway, after leading the AL in shutouts (1).

 

Wacha

127 IP

7.35 k/9

2.19 bb/9

4.14 FIP

260 BABIP

35.4 hard hit%

 

Kluber

164 IP

7.63 k/9

1.15 bb/9

3.57 FIP

317 BABIP

34.7 hard hit%

 

Wacha was not better than Kluber last year.

[mvp 78]

Kluber was better than Wacha last year?

 

Yes.

[mvp 78]

You can't really complain what they've done with the pen.

 

The rotation has a lot of question marks, but technically you could say there's a ton of upside there as well.

 

But man, it's really hard to be optimistic after the last few seasons, health issues, and this off season.

 

I like the pen moves, including moving Whitlock to the rotation.

 

The rotation is still a question mark, but I don't think any of the FA guys were the answer this year anyway.

 

I completely understand everyone's frustration. While I like some of the moves, the big picture just doesn't seem to cut the mustard this offseason.

[notin]

Kluber was better than Wacha last year?

 

Yes. Next question…

[notin]

The Sox pitching staff is already better than last season’s. And it’s still December and they still have (per educated guessing, admittedly) about $20mill to spend…

[Old Red]

Yes. Next question…

 

Yes in what way?

[Old Red]

Yes.

 

Do you think the Red Sox are taking Kluber over Evol, or Wacha, because he is better, or because he is cheaper??

[notin]

Yes in what way?

 

At pitching.

 

In what way is Wacha better? (And Wacha may not be out of the picture FYI…

[mvp 78]

Yes in what way?

 

More innings, better bb rate, better expectations going forward considering FIP and Wacha's unstainable BABIP.

[notin]

Yes in what way?

 

Did you read mvp’s post #36?

[Old Red]

More innings, better bb rate, better expectations going forward considering FIP and Wacha's unstainable BABIP.

 

I disagree that Kluber has better expectations going forward, and I believe the Red Sox would have signed Wacha if they could have gotten him for the same price as they did Kluber, and the same goes for Evol.

[mvp 78]

Do you think the Red Sox are taking Kluber over Evol, or Wacha, because he is better, or because he is cheaper??

 

That I can't really answer. I'd personally rather Kluber over those guys as he's more likely to give you innings. We also don't know what Wacha will sign for as he's still a FA.

 

Hill at 8M was probably a fair value, but I'd rather spend more money and get Kluber who can pitch more innings and has the lower bb rate.

 

Eovaldi was tremendous in 2021. The problem is that it was a career year for him and he just can't stay healthy year to year otherwise. A great teammate. I loved watching him pitch. I'd be a little nervous of the Sox giving him 2/34 after a year where he had lower velo, 45% hard hit rate, career high barrel % and extended injury time off.

[Old Red]

That I can't really answer. I'd personally rather Kluber over those guys as he's more likely to give you innings. We also don't know what Wacha will sign for as he's still a FA.

 

Hill at 8M was probably a fair value, but I'd rather spend more money and get Kluber who can pitch more innings and has the lower bb rate.

 

Eovaldi was tremendous in 2021. The problem is that it was a career year for him and he just can't stay healthy year to year otherwise. A great teammate. I loved watching him pitch. I'd be a little nervous of the Sox giving him 2/34 after a year where he had lower velo, 45% hard hit rate, career high barrel % and extended injury time off.

 

Personally I would have rather seen someone a little bit younger in the tooth then any of these three.

[notin]

I disagree that Kluber has better expectations going forward, and I believe the Red Sox would have signed Wacha if they could have gotten him for the same price as they did Kluber, and the same goes for Evol.

 

The Sox reportedly offered Eovaldi 3 years. Not sure of the money.

 

It’s hard to say Wacha is a lock to get more than Kluber right now since no one has signed him for anything yet…

[notin]

Personally I would have rather seen someone a little bit younger in the tooth then any of these three.

 

You must be thrilled that the Sox avoided Verlander…

[Old Red]

You must be thrilled that the Sox avoided Verlander…

 

For a last place team? Yes.

[mvp 78]

I disagree that Kluber has better expectations going forward, and I believe the Red Sox would have signed Wacha if they could have gotten him for the same price as they did Kluber, and the same goes for Evol.

 

They still may? He only signed for 1/7 last season. Kluber signed 1/8 last season.

 

The only news I've seen on Wacha was that the Orioles were interested. If not many teams are in on him, it couldn't hurt to reach out even if the Sox only see him as a backend guy. Speculation is that Wacha is waiting on multiple years, while Kluber was willing to sign for one.

[mvp 78]

Personally I would have rather seen someone a little bit younger in the tooth then any of these three.

 

Would have to be done by trade. Rodon is younger, but I have my doubts about that contract for sure.

[mvp 78]

For a last place team? Yes.

 

The future has yet to be written.

[notin]

For a last place team? Yes.

 

Why?

 

Bad teams often sign veterans on short deals. If the team didn’t turn everything around, they become trade bait at the deadline…

[mvp 78]

Why?

 

Bad teams often sign veterans on short deals. If the team didn’t turn everything around, they become trade bait at the deadline…

 

Unless you are the 2022 Red Sox.

[Old Red]

The future has yet to be written.

Yes, but someone signing Verlander for that kind of money means you are going all in. Are the Red Sox in any position to go all in?

[Old Red]

Why?

 

Bad teams often sign veterans on short deals. If the team didn’t turn everything around, they become trade bait at the deadline…

Name one for that kind of money.

[notin]

The future has yet to be written.

 

Old Red has already written the future. Just like he’s already filled in all the blanks from the past…

[notin]

Name one for that kind of money.

 

Texas spent more on deGrom despite winning 10 fewer games than Boston…