Xander Bogaerts has signed with San Diego Padres

[notin]

There might have been, but yes, who knows? The BorA$$ camp might have said something like, "If you wont come up to $200M/8, don't bother making a counteroffer, and the Sox felt there was no way they'd pay him that.

 

Even in light of what he eventually got, they probably still would not have paid him $200M/8- rightly or wrongly.

 

And at the time, before the season or early in it, $200mill over 8 for a 30yo SS looked unreasonable. Six months later, it looks like a steal…

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe they did? Certainly if they did, Camp Boras wouldn’t reveal that for obvious reasons. The Sox can’t and definitely shouldn’t if they want to keep the negotiations open.

 

The Sox side of it was they did talk and Bloom (or whoever) realized the numbers were getting out of hand and they were not going to be competitive. That the 11 year/$280 mill deal came together so quickly certainly showed there were other teams involved. In the past, that has always been where Boras wants to be in his negotiating.

 

I didn’t like the result either, but I just can’t pretend I know everything that went down…

 

If the Sox offered Xander $150 million before the season, we'd know it.

 

The only thing reported was the $30 million bump, widely reported and never refuted.

[moonslav59]

They should have offered him 6/150, that would have been a perfectly reasonable offer, 10 mill more than Story.

 

I doubt he'd have taken even $160M/6 at the time we signed Story. Maybe someday we'll know the details.Maybe even $170M/6 or $180M/7 would not have gotten him to sign, either. How would that affect some people's feelings? Would finding out BorA$$ insisted on $200M/7 change everything? How about $200M/8?

[moonslav59]

And at the time, before the season or early in it, $200mill over 8 for a 30yo SS looked unreasonable. Six months later, it looks like a steal…

 

Indeed, but that fact still does not mean he's worth $200M/8, and I bet the Sox would not give him that, right now, if they could.

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt he'd have taken even $160M/6 at the time we signed Story. Maybe someday we'll know the details.Maybe even $170M/6 or $180M/7 would not have gotten him to sign, either. How would that affect some people's feelings? Would finding out BorA$$ insisted on $200M/7 change everything? How about $200M/8?

 

The scuttlebutt is that Xander was looking for Story-type money. I don't know where that came from.

[Bellhorn04]

Indeed, but that fact still does not mean he's worth $200M/8, and I bet the Sox would not give him that, right now, if they could.

 

They did finally offer him 6/162. I assume that was their max value for him. And it's a reasonable one.

[Old Red]

I doubt he'd have taken even $160M/6 at the time we signed Story. Maybe someday we'll know the details.Maybe even $170M/6 or $180M/7 would not have gotten him to sign, either. How would that affect some people's feelings? Would finding out BorA$$ insisted on $200M/7 change everything? How about $200M/8?

 

The point being we will never know, but the $160M/6, or something similar should have been offered in the first place, and not the 1 yr ext for $30M. If that would have happened we still wouldn’t be having this discussion today.

[Old Red]

Indeed, but that fact still does not mean he's worth $200M/8, and I bet the Sox would not give him that, right now, if they could.

 

Nobody is worth the contract they are getting, and that includes Judge.

[notin]

If the Sox offered Xander $150 million before the season, we'd know it.

 

The only thing reported was the $30 million bump, widely reported and never refuted.

 

How would we know it? Who would leak that?

[moonslav59]

The point being we will never know, but the $160M/6, or something similar should have been offered in the first place, and not the 1 yr ext for $30M. If that would have happened we still wouldn’t be having this discussion today.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees. Even if they felt he was worth just $140M/6 (same as Story), that should have been offered.

 

Maybe they did offer that. Maybe BorA$$ said, if you don't come back with anything higher than $180/7 or $200/8, don't bother, and so they did not. Is that at least a possibility?

 

If it is true, or something like that, would that change your anger level?

[moonslav59]

Nobody is worth the contract they are getting, and that includes Judge.

 

That has been what I have been trying to say. Maybe nothing was misjudged and nobody was misinformed. They set a value and it was never what BorA$$ would have accpted at anytime on the timeline, and IMO, we probably never came close enough to get serious with further offers, counteroffers and counter-counteroffers.

[Bellhorn04]

How would we know it? Who would leak that?

 

The Sox would have leaked it by now because it would make them look better, or they would have at least refuted that the $30 mill was the only offer. That's usually how it works.

[moonslav59]

How would we know it? Who would leak that?

 

If BorA$$ thought that offer was "lowball," which I don't think it would have been- back then, he might have leaked it.

[Bellhorn04]

That has been what I have been trying to say. Maybe nothing was misjudged and nobody was misinformed. They set a value and it was never what BorA$$ would have accpted at anytime on the timeline, and IMO, we probably never came close enough to get serious with further offers, counteroffers and counter-counteroffers.

 

They probably did the same thing as what you think they did with Lester. They never had intention of keeping either, and the rest was just for show.

[moonslav59]

The Sox would have leaked it by now because it would make them look better, or they would have at least refuted that the $30 mill was the only offer. That's usually how it works.

 

They don't seem to disclose anything.

[notin]

The Sox would have leaked it by now because it would make them look better, or they would have at least refuted that the $30 mill was the only offer. That's usually how it works.

 

Is it? I don’t know.

 

I mean, if you’re the Red Sox and you want to keep negotiating, do you call out the other side? Or just ignore the media games?

 

I don’t know, but I can see reasons to do both…

[Old Red]

I don't think anyone disagrees. Even if they felt he was worth just $140M/6 (same as Story), that should have been offered.

 

Maybe they did offer that. Maybe BorA$$ said, if you don't come back with anything higher than $180/7 or $200/8, don't bother, and so they did not. Is that at least a possibility?

 

If it is true, or something like that, would that change your anger level?

Bogey should have been worth more to for the Red Sox for what he has accomplished than Story, but like I said before I would have been satisfied with something similar to $160M/6, but I truly believe that never happened, and nothing more than the 1 yr $30M ext was offered.

[Bellhorn04]

Is it? I don’t know.

 

I mean, if you’re the Red Sox and you want to keep negotiating, do you call out the other side? Or just ignore the media games?

 

I don’t know, but I can see reasons to do both…

 

What I'm saying is we'd know it by now. The $30 million insult is what the media is all over, I'm sure the Sox would correct that if they could...

[mvp 78]

They don't seem to disclose anything.

 

They do.

[mvp 78]

What I'm saying is we'd know it by now. The $30 million insult is what the media is all over, I'm sure the Sox would correct that if they could...

 

JH owns the paper. Of course there'd be an article standing up for their side if it was possible.

[moonslav59]

Bogey should have been worth more to for the Red Sox for what he has accomplished than Story, but like I said before I would have been satisfied with something similar to $160M/6, but I truly believe that never happened, and nothing more than the 1 yr $30M ext was offered.

 

I have agreed, all long, and I like Story and liked the Story signing, and still do.

 

I think Bogey was worth more. I think my final top offer suggestion was $170M/7. If the Sox did not value him even that much, I disagree with them and would say that was a mistake. If they felt $160M/6 was tops, I wouldn't get upset they didn't go $170-180/7.

 

My point is they might have thought he was worth what you said, but knew the offer was nowhere close to what he'd accept, so they never officially made that offer.

 

A possible conversation?

 

BorA$$: We won't start serious talks with you, unless you can come close to $180/7 or $200M/8.

 

Bloom: We were thinking of counter our lame initial offer to $160/6 to maybe $165M/6 or $180M/7, can we start from there?

 

BorA$$: You are not even close.

 

Sox brass huddles and determines one or both of these determinations:

 

1. We don't think he'll be offered $200M/8, so let's wait it out and see if his price drops. (They would have been grossly wrong with this.)

 

2. We don't think he's worth a penny more than $180/7, and if another team offers that, we will not go higher, so why even offer $200M/8, if we don't want to pay it or think he's worth that to us, since we have our SS of the future coming up soon, and Bogey will be upset, if we move him off SS.

 

Can you please answer, if you think something like this could be what happened? If yes, does that change how you'd feel about what the Sox ended up doing, beyond the point I agree with you on about trading him earlier, if we saw this coming.

[moonslav59]

Bogey should have been worth more to for the Red Sox for what he has accomplished than Story, but like I said before I would have been satisfied with something similar to $160M/6, but I truly believe that never happened, and nothing more than the 1 yr $30M ext was offered.

 

Maybe another offer was never made for a reason none of us know- like knowing BorA$$ would laugh at it.

[Old Red]

Maybe another offer was never made for a reason none of us know- like knowing BorA$$ would laugh at it.

 

JH could have paid Bogey what SD offered him if he wanted to. It wouldn’t have made sense, but he could have. Why do you think JH showed up at the Felger, and Mass show years ago, when he was driving around, and his rabbit ears heard them talking about him on the radio? He cared back then, and he cared what was being said. I’ve been saying for the last year that JH today is not the same JH of even 10 years ago. Today he just sends out his Wallmart greeter Sam Kennedy, and his dummy Bloom to do the talking for him, because he just doesn’t care what’s being said , or care what’s going on like he used to.

[moonslav59]

JH could have paid Bogey what SD offered him if he wanted to. It wouldn’t have made sense, but he could have. Why do you think JH showed up at the Felger, and Mass show years ago, when he was driving around, and his rabbit ears heard them talking about him on the radio? He cared back then, and he cared what was being said. I’ve been saying for the last year that JH today is not the same JH of even 10 years ago. Today he just sends out his Wallmart greeter Sam Kennedy, and his dummy Bloom to do the talking for him, because he just doesn’t care what’s being said , or care what’s going on like he used to.

 

Back then he had an answer he felt people might accept.

 

I still don't get your fascination with social media while denying it influences your positions.

[Old Red]

Back then he had an answer he felt people might accept.

 

I still don't get your fascination with social media while denying it influences your positions.

You honestly think this forum isn’t just another form of social media, or the talk show world don’t you? In your little corner of the world where you feel safe, needed, and important. How quaint.

[moonslav59]

You honestly think this forum isn’t just another form of social media, or the talk show world don’t you? In your little corner of the world where you feel safe, needed, and important. How quaint.

 

Of course this is social media. I'm not the one denying talk shows are not.

 

As you like to say, "Where did I ever say this site is not social media?"

 

I'm not the one acting like what any social media site's perceived majority thinks matters all that much.

 

BTW, can you do me a favor, even I don't deserve one from you, please answer the Q at the end of post #471?

[Old Red]

Back then he had an answer he felt people might accept.

 

I still don't get your fascination with social media while denying it influences your positions.

 

Imagine JH listening to sports talk radio, and showing up to be on it. What a guy.

[moonslav59]

Imagine JH listening to sports talk radio, and showing up to be on it. What a guy.

 

Personally, I'd never even try imagining such things or think about them, if reading some posts here forced the thought on me.

[Old Red]

Personally, I'd never even try imagining such things or think about them, if reading some posts here forced the thought on me.

You don’t like to broaden your horizons? Imagine if people only took what was said on here, and thought it was gospel. What a rude awakening it would be if they found out otherwise.

[mvp 78]

Personally, I'd never even try imagining such things or think about them, if reading some posts here forced the thought on me.

 

Didn't you say Justin Verlander was winless in the postseason because of TX sports radio?