Xander Bogaerts has signed with San Diego Padres

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The organization has the unmistakable odor of dysfunction about it.

 

Atlanta is about to land Sean Murphy, like they really need him. The Braves are already great and have a young core of stars locked up.

 

Meanwhile, the bad ship Red Sox stays the course, headed for the frozen ocean in Antartica, fully intent on being encased in ice in suspended animation. The plan is to thaw out in warmer times... unless the vessel cracks apart from the pressure of frost heaves and sinks forever.

[moonslav59]

Atlanta is about to land Sean Murphy, like they really need him. The Braves are already great and have a young core of stars locked up.

 

Meanwhile, the bad ship Red Sox stays the course, headed for the frozen ocean in Antartica, fully intent on being encased in ice in suspended animation. The plan is to thaw out in warmer times... unless the vessel cracks apart from the pressure of frost heaves and sinks forever.

 

MIL will get Wm Contreras.

 

He'd have fit nicely on the Sox. I wonder what they gave up to get him, and what we might have had to give.

[mvp 78]

The organization has the unmistakable odor of dysfunction about it.

 

Ever since they unloaded Theo and Tito. They have won in spite of the people at the very top.

[moonslav59]

Ever since they unloaded Theo and Tito. They have won in spite of the people at the very top.

 

Yes, twice!

 

Same as those two buffoons!

 

[S5Dewey]

This is worth reading if you can get it. It seems that in spite of my being characterized here as being a "spoiled fan who expects a WSC every year" I'm not the only one who isn't happy with the way the Sox handled the Bogaerts deal (as well as the other deals that ended the same way).

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/14/sports/red-sox-xander-bogaerts-analysis/?s_campaign=bostonglobe:push:web

[Jasonbay44]

This is worth reading if you can get it. It seems that in spite of my being characterized here as being a "spoiled fan who expects a WSC every year" I'm not the only one who isn't happy with the way the Sox handled the Bogaerts deal (as well as the other deals that ended the same way).

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/14/sports/red-sox-xander-bogaerts-analysis/?s_campaign=bostonglobe:push:web

 

I don’t think expecting a big market team, that charges World Series prices at the stadium to be able to keep their own fan favorite stars makes someone a spoiled fan.

[Hugh2]

I don’t think expecting a big market team, that charges World Series prices at the stadium to be able to keep their own fan favorite stars makes someone a spoiled fan.

 

You can't keep all of them, some guys chose to bet on themselves and go to free agency, and some can be had for their ridiculous "buy now" price.

 

But it does raise ones eyebrow when they seemingly let them all walk. Benintendi/Betts/Bogaerts/ Devers? To be fair Bogaerts did sign an extension, and maybe it could have been done without an opt-out if the Sox opened up their pocket books just a little bit more, or maybe not if they tacked on a few more years.

 

The time to extend guys and save substantial amounts of money is going to be earlier in their careers. That ship sailed with Bogaerts, Betts, and Benintendi years ago. They should have been locked up in the DD era. Devers could have been under Blooms watch and is entirely on him.

[mvp 78]

This is worth reading if you can get it. It seems that in spite of my being characterized here as being a "spoiled fan who expects a WSC every year" I'm not the only one who isn't happy with the way the Sox handled the Bogaerts deal (as well as the other deals that ended the same way).

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/14/sports/red-sox-xander-bogaerts-analysis/?s_campaign=bostonglobe:push:web

 

Show me on the doll where a TalkSox poster has hurt you.

[Bellhorn04]

This is worth reading if you can get it. It seems that in spite of my being characterized here as being a "spoiled fan who expects a WSC every year" I'm not the only one who isn't happy with the way the Sox handled the Bogaerts deal (as well as the other deals that ended the same way).

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/14/sports/red-sox-xander-bogaerts-analysis/?s_campaign=bostonglobe:push:web

 

It feels to me like the Sox FO has really crossed the line this offseason.

 

It's almost like they're going out of their way to make their fans miserable.

 

Not pretty to watch.

[Old Red]

It feels to me like the Sox FO has really crossed the line this offseason.

 

It's almost like they're going out of their way to make their fans miserable.

 

Not pretty to watch.

And The Mupprt Kennedy was still at it yesterday at the Jansen intro. He needs to be yanked off the stage.

[moonslav59]

It feels to me like the Sox media has really crossed the line this offseason.

 

It's almost like they're going out of their way to make Sox fans miserable.

 

Not pretty to watch.

 

I fixed this for you...

[mvp 78]

And The Mupprt Kennedy was still at it yesterday at the Jansen intro. He needs to be yanked off the stage.

 

That guy is out of touch for sure. I think Bloom comes off as more sympathetic than Kennedy. Makes me really question about where some of the decisions are coming from. Kennedy is just JH's mouthpiece IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

I fixed this for you...

 

What's been going on isn't really a media creation this time IMHO.

[Old Red]

What's been going on isn't really a media creation this time IMHO.

 

The media, and the spoiled, crybaby fans are the ones who have gotten this thing right. The Red Sox FO better known as dumb, and dumber are the ones who have gotten things wrong, and Bloom has been perfect for the part.

[Hugh2]

What's been going on isn't really a media creation this time IMHO.

 

It can both be true that the Sox FO has really messed some things up and the Sports media loves to live in a perpetual state of misleading the public and half-reporting every story out there with an agenda. It must get tiring having to be negative, heck look at why LOU stepped down from WEEI.

[S5Dewey]

Show me on the doll where a TalkSox poster has hurt you.

 

Post #188 in the thread "Devers next deal":

 

"No offense to you, I like your posts, but the act I'm seeing reeks of spoiled fans who think we are entitled to a ring every 4-6 years."

 

While I appreciate that he said No Offense Intended I do take offense at that characterization. It's kinda like Tony Soprano saying, "Nothing personal, it's only business" before he shoots someone in the head. I've been posting here off and on for numerous years nearly always either supporting what the Sox do or keeping my fingers off the keyboard when I'm unhappy and I do find it offensive to be characterized as a spoiled fan who expects a ring every five or six years.

 

The fact is that I'm tired of seeing what I'm seeing - that the Sox are continually letting fan favorites and quality players get away from them - and if my opinion offends some posters here.... I can live with that as long as they know I intend no offense.

[S5Dewey]

I fixed this for you...

 

Let me get this straight. You're now blaming the MEDIA for the unhappiness over what the Sox FO has done???????? Does the phrase "Shooting the messenger" ring a bell?

[Old Red]

Let me get this straight. You're now blaming the MEDIA for the unhappiness over what the Sox FO has done???????? Does the phrase "Shooting the messenger" ring a bell?

 

The other alternative would be to blame bloom, and the media is just an easier target especially if you don’t think Bloom is in over his head. Deny, deny accuse.

[moonslav59]

Let me get this straight. You're now blaming the MEDIA for the unhappiness over what the Sox FO has done???????? Does the phrase "Shooting the messenger" ring a bell?

 

They did lie or convey lies, but no, that post was partially in jest.

 

The front office let a player go they had no intention of ever signing near market value. They botched the way they presented that to the fans and media, and the media made it worse and added untruths to stir up the pot.

 

I sensed an uplifting mood, here until we read reports the Sox were about to sign Bogey (a lie), then when he signed with SD, this place went bonkers. Without that report and others, I don't think the mood would be this angry, but many would still be pissed. I'm not saying Sox management didn't feed some of these stories and string fans along with untruths or statements they may have meant but knew would never come about.

 

I'm pissed, too, but not for the same reason many here are. (just my take.)

 

Do we even know, for sure, what offers we made and when?

[Old Red]

Still going with the conspiracy theory, and that’s all it is that JH, and his dummy had no intention of signing Bogey, and just lied to the fans as a payback. I on the other hand still believe the Red Sox wanted to resign Bogey, but just misjudged the room, and the value of Bogey, and just botched the whole thing when they let Bogey get to FA. I believe JH relied on the bad info Bloom gave him, and when it was found out it was to late, and to expensive. Bloom botched this up from day 1. Of course if you believe in Bloom it just has to be the Red Sox didn’t really want Bogey in the first place, and not Bloom is just a dummy, which is what I’m going with.

[Hugh2]

I don't think the media is lying, but they only tell one side of the story. You can't really blame them, somebody leaks something and what is the media supposed to do? not their job? I blame people for sucking things up without taking it with a grain of salt.

 

Imagine you're Scott Boras and you are offered 5/100 for said player, but you say NO we want 10/300. You know darn well that's not the other team's final offer but you leak their weak ass starting point offer to the press and they report it and everyone criticizes the team for lowballing said player. Now Boras has leverage. "See, everyone knows your offer is garbage, you better up the anti" You get the other team upping their offer without doing or saying much you're winning the negotiations. Also, the pressure gets put on the team with that level of negative press to get something done. It's a smart move by Boras, he certainly knows how to play Boston fans like a fiddle.

 

In a way, people who swallow these stories up help inflate player salaries.

 

I have zero doubt in my mind to some extent the Bogaerts situation was messed up, and they deserve a LOT of strife for it, maybe even some firings should be in order. but everything we know is what has come out from Boras's side. Using the Sox opening offer they brought on day one to the negotiating table to put them down is just stupid. I would like to apologize to everyone for not being a Boras stooge who likes to regurgitate what he leaks to the press.

[moonslav59]

Still going with the conspiracy theory, and that’s all it is that JH, and his dummy had no intention of signing Bogey, and just lied to the fans as a payback. I on the other hand still believe the Red Sox wanted to resign Bogey, but just misjudged the room, and the value of Bogey, and just botched the whole thing when they let Bogey get to FA. I believe JH relied on the bad info Bloom gave him, and when it was found out it was to late, and to expensive. Bloom botched this up from day 1. Of course if you believe in Bloom it just has to be the Red Sox didn’t really want Bogey in the first place, and not Bloom is just a dummy, which is what I’m going with.

 

"Conspiracy theory?" So, my opinions are conspiracies and yours are what?

 

Had we wanted Bogey at market prices, he'd have been signed. That's not rocket science. They don't lie to fans as "payback." That makes no sense. They say things that make fans think they respected Bogey and wanted him back, and that could all be true- not a lie. They just wanted him back at less than one of two things: market value or Borass' lowest number.

 

Your claim they "misjudged the room and the value of Bogey" is just as conspiratorial as my opinion. IMO, they knew what the market was 2 years ago and one year ago, and did not want to pay it. Sure, everyone misjudged what he ended up getting paid, but that has zero to do with us getting him or not. We were never coming close to that, whether we misjudge it or not.

 

This whole line about Bloom feeding JH the wrong information is beyond any conspiracy theory you say my position is. It's absurd and total hogwash, IMO.

 

Is it possible the Sox really wanted Bogey but not at the price it would have taken at any given stage of the situation and changing market values? If so, it's not a lie saying "We want him," or "He's a top priority." I think many think this can be or is the truth.

 

Where my position differs is, and I said it is pure speculation (which is not conspiracy) is that the Sox knew all along they were so far apart on what they wanted to pay Bogey and what Borass was asking for and what they felt the market rate was, at every moment on the timeline. IMO, they wanted him but knew they'd never pay the price needed, so much of their statements were disingenuous or misleading to the media and public. They made it sound like wanting him and making him a top priority meant we had a chance and were trying to bring him back, when they knew full well, it was never going to happen.

 

IMO, Bloom never lied or misinformed JH or others. They knew what Borass was asking for all along. They chose to sign Story, last March. They chose to offer Bogey $30M = 1 year to his contract. they all heard the outrage and decided not to upgrade their offer by enough to keep him. It's not all that complicated to think this could easily be what happened.

 

Granted I may be slightly wrong or very wrong in some of many aspects of what I just said.

 

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think the media is lying, but they only tell one side of the story. You can't really blame them, somebody leaks something and what is the media supposed to do? not their job? I blame people for sucking things up without taking it with a grain of salt.

 

Imagine you're Scott Boras and you are offered 5/100 for said player, but you say NO we want 10/300. You know darn well that's not the other team's final offer but you leak their weak ass starting point offer to the press and they report it and everyone criticizes the team for lowballing said player. Now Boras has leverage. "See, everyone knows your offer is garbage, you better up the anti" You get the other team upping their offer without doing or saying much you're winning the negotiations. Also, the pressure gets put on the team with that level of negative press to get something done. It's a smart move by Boras, he certainly knows how to play Boston fans like a fiddle.

 

In a way, people who swallow these stories up help inflate player salaries.

 

I have zero doubt in my mind to some extent the Bogaerts situation was messed up, and they deserve a LOT of strife for it, maybe even some firings should be in order. but everything we know is what has come out from Boras's side. Using the Sox opening offer they brought on day one to the negotiating table to put them down is just stupid. I would like to apologize to everyone for not being a Boras stooge who likes to regurgitate what he leaks to the press.

 

As far as I can see all the criticism about the Bogaerts situation revolves around the lack of a serious extension offer before he reached free agency.

 

The reported ludicrous offer of one more year and $30 million they made in the pre-season appears to be 100% fact. It's been repeated everywhere and never refuted.

[Hugh2]

As far as I can see all the criticism about the Bogaerts situation revolves around the lack of a serious extension offer before he reached free agency.

 

The reported ludicrous offer of one more year and $30 million they made in the pre-season appears to be 100% fact. It's been repeated everywhere and never refuted.

 

But this is just my point. How do we even know about the offer? Because Boras leaked it. Sox don't leak anything. I also read Bogaerts said if the Sox offered the Story contract he would have accepted.

 

At the very least, they misjudged his market. That I don't blame them for, who the heck would have guessed he got 280/11. I said he'd get $217 and was practically crucified for suggesting that (maybe a slight exaggeration).

 

Still, why they wouldn't give their best offer with what they were comfortable with and re-evaluate matching in FA later is beyond me.

 

I hope some good comes out of this. I hope the Sox take a deep deep look at their evaluation and negotiation process because of this and come out better on the other side.

[Bellhorn04]

But this is just my point. How do we even know about the offer? Because Boras leaked it. Sox don't leak anything. I also read Bogaerts said if the Sox offered the Story contract he would have accepted.

 

Sox leak, but only when it makes the other guy look bad...

[moonslav59]

I don't think the media is lying, but they only tell one side of the story. You can't really blame them, somebody leaks something and what is the media supposed to do? not their job? I blame people for sucking things up without taking it with a grain of salt.

 

Imagine you're Scott Boras and you are offered 5/100 for said player, but you say NO we want 10/300. You know darn well that's not the other team's final offer but you leak their weak ass starting point offer to the press and they report it and everyone criticizes the team for lowballing said player. Now Boras has leverage. "See, everyone knows your offer is garbage, you better up the anti" You get the other team upping their offer without doing or saying much you're winning the negotiations. Also, the pressure gets put on the team with that level of negative press to get something done. It's a smart move by Boras, he certainly knows how to play Boston fans like a fiddle.

 

In a way, people who swallow these stories up help inflate player salaries.

 

I have zero doubt in my mind to some extent the Bogaerts situation was messed up, and they deserve a LOT of strife for it, maybe even some firings should be in order. but everything we know is what has come out from Boras's side. Using the Sox opening offer they brought on day one to the negotiating table to put them down is just stupid. I would like to apologize to everyone for not being a Boras stooge who likes to regurgitate what he leaks to the press.

 

Sometimes the $300M/10 agent offer is "leaked," too and everyone calls it absurd, too, although Bogey got close to that in the end.

 

We don't know what second offers were made- or third and fourth. We don't even know if any counter offers were officially made.

 

My guess is the Sox look at what they think other GMs will pay more than what Borass is asking. They huddle and determine, if it's worth coming close to that number with a counter offer. If no, they may not even bother making one. If yes, maybe they offer something close to what they think the market is and say come back to us, if we are close to the best offer out there. Maybe they intentionally make a pretty fair offer, for the sake of it looking like they tried, like I think they did in the end with Lester, knowing full well, he'll never take it.

 

When the market too off, I don't think it mattered if the Six "misjudged" anything. They decided they were not going to pay "the market rate." It might not even be about them thinking he's not worth it. They might have just thought Mayer is not far away, so let's spend that money on other areas.

 

Do any of us know the whys and why nots and essential details about how they made this choice?

[moonslav59]

Sox leak, but only when it makes the other guy look bad...

 

Certainly they do. Manny's physicals. Tito's "issues" and many, many other times.

[Hugh2]

Sox leak, but only when it makes the other guy look bad...

 

fair, everyone has a leakage problem. So when something hits the news I always wonder who it makes look bad, then I think who must of leaked it, and then I think to myself WHY would that person leak such a thing? Boras is really really good at what he does.

[Bellhorn04]

fair, everyone has a leakage problem. So when something hits the news I always wonder who it makes look bad, then I think who must of leaked it, and then I think to myself WHY would that person leak such a thing? Boras is really really good at what he does.

 

No doubt, but it's still a fact, and an embarrassing one.

[Hugh2]

Sometimes the $300M/10 agent offer is "leaked," too and everyone calls it absurd, too, although Bogey got close to that in the end.

 

We don't know what second offers were made- or third and fourth. We don't even know if any counter offers were officially made.

 

My guess is the Sox look at what they think other GMs will pay more than what Borass is asking. They huddle and determine, if it's worth coming close to that number with a counter offer. If no, they may not even bother making one. If yes, maybe they offer something close to what they think the market is and say come back to us, if we are close to the best offer out there. Maybe they intentionally make a pretty fair offer, for the sake of it looking like they tried, like I think they did in the end with Lester, knowing full well, he'll never take it.

 

When the market too off, I don't think it mattered if the Six "misjudged" anything. They decided they were not going to pay "the market rate." It might not even be about them thinking he's not worth it. They might have just thought Mayer is not far away, so let's spend that money on other areas.

 

Do any of us know the whys and why nots and essential details about how they made this choice?

 

 

This is my point exactly, there's so much we DON'T know.

 

To be fair, filling in the holes with those unknowns is the difference between the Sox screwing this thing up and REALLY SCREWING this thing up.