2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[oldtimer]

Mancini might draw some Sox interest. He can be a back-up/insurance 1B and corner OF, as well as a DH. We could then trade Dalbec or Hosmer, but I'm not sure the idea of Refsnyder as our near FT RF'er will be the plan. (Mancini bats RH'd like Ref, so not a great fit for a RF platoon.

 

If we sign Nimmo, we will likely go with a DH rotation that could include a mix of players (some won't be on the 26 man): Ref, Arroyo, Dalbec, Hosmer, EValdez, Wong and the very unlikely $12M man, Pham.

Maybe the Sox will go in the direction of resetting the payroll in 2023, particularly if they can't or won't resign Bogey. In that case they could go low cost and bring up some of our prospects early and supplement that with a veteran and use the money saved on pitching across the board. Such a solution would include Casas, Rafaela and perhaps Mayer as our players of the future, supplemented with perhaps a Trey Mancini as a veteran presence. It is a far out idea but since in 2023 we are unlikely to be fully competitive anyway a reset makes some sense. Go for pitching to supplement the Sox pitching staff which has some quality but needs additional depth.

[notin]

Maybe the Sox will go in the direction of resetting the payroll in 2023, particularly if they can't or won't resign Bogey. In that case they could go low cost and bring up some of our prospects early and supplement that with a veteran and use the money saved on pitching across the board. Such a solution would include Casas, Rafaela and perhaps Mayer as our players of the future, supplemented with perhaps a Trey Mancini as a veteran presence. It is a far out idea but since in 2023 we are unlikely to be fully competitive anyway a reset makes some sense. Go for pitching to supplement the Sox pitching staff which has some quality but needs additional depth.

 

How can anyone determine if the Sox will be competitive in 2023 already?

 

Did anyone look at the last place 2012 team and predict a World Series title the following season? Or the last place 2015 team and think that this team is ready for the AL East pennant? And who looked at the end of the 2020 season - one that featured one of the worst Sox teams on the past half-century - and predicted an ALCS in 2021?

 

A lot can change quickly in MLB. Give it a chance..

[Hugh2]

Maybe the Sox will go in the direction of resetting the payroll in 2023, particularly if they can't or won't resign Bogey. In that case they could go low cost and bring up some of our prospects early and supplement that with a veteran and use the money saved on pitching across the board. Such a solution would include Casas, Rafaela and perhaps Mayer as our players of the future, supplemented with perhaps a Trey Mancini as a veteran presence. It is a far out idea but since in 2023 we are unlikely to be fully competitive anyway a reset makes some sense. Go for pitching to supplement the Sox pitching staff which has some quality but needs additional depth.

 

Why would you start the service clock early on some prospects and lose a year of control? Bring them up when they’re ready. Notins comment above is spot on, and might I add the Sox have a ton of money to spend and still reset the cap. Let’s see how the off-season goes.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If Billy Beane accepts the job, how is the trajectory of the Red Sox changed?

 

Does he listen to Pedro and sign David Ortiz? Does he sign Bill Mueller? Keith Foulke? Kevin Pillar?

 

It has been tumultuous, but I can't say I'd do a do-over with that one.

 

If you believe the scene in Moneyball when the Henry character is recruiting the Beane character, the impetus is eerily similar to the moves and non-moves that have defined Bloom so far in Boston.

 

If Beane did become Red Sox GM, maybe he signs the same crew as Epstein. Or maybe he uses his industry influence to make the ARod trade go through -- the deal that was supposed to send Manny Ramirez and minor league Jon Lester to Texas... That could ultimately only mean no rings in '04, when Manny was WS MVP, or '07, when Lester won the Game 4 clincher.

[Hugh2]

If you believe the scene in Moneyball when the Henry character is recruiting the Beane character, the impetus is eerily similar to the moves and non-moves that have defined Bloom so far in Boston.

 

If Beane did become Red Sox GM, maybe he signs the same crew as Epstein. Or maybe he uses his industry influence to make the ARod trade go through -- the deal that was supposed to send Manny Ramirez and minor league Jon Lester to Texas... That could ultimately only mean no rings in '04, when Manny was WS MVP, or '07, when Lester won the Game 4 clincher.

 

We have zero insight into what could have been. Perhaps we don’t win in 04/07 but we win in 05, and 10 instead, or not, or we have more WS wins. We just don’t know.

 

Keep in mind, the Sox liked Theo and brought him in because he had a shared baseball philosophy with Billy Beane. To them, he was Billy Beane light. So while we don’t know what types of moves specifically he could have made, I’d be willing to bet pushing the ARod one across the finish line was NOT one of them. That’s not a Billy move, and I seriously doubt BB would have significantly more pull to get the players Union to have signed off on the deal. They still reject it.

Edited October 8, 2022 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Bellhorn04]

We have zero insight into what could have been. Perhaps we don’t win in 04/07 but we win in 05, and 10 instead, or not, or we have more WS wins. We just don’t know.

 

Keep in mind, the Sox liked Theo and brought him in because he had a shared baseball philosophy with Billy Beane. To them, he was Billy Beane light. So while we don’t know what types of moves specifically he could have made, I’d be willing to bet pushing the ARod one across the finish line was NOT one of them. That’s not a Billy move, and I seriously doubt BB would have significantly more pull to get the players Union to have signed off on the deal. They still reject it.

 

The crazy thing about the A-Rod near-deal was that the Red Sox only needed to pay an additional $12 million to get it done. But they balked, probably figuring they could come back to it.

 

Then Aaron Boone played some pick-up basketball, and the rest is history.

[Hugh2]

The crazy thing about the A-Rod near-deal was that the Red Sox only needed to pay an additional $12 million to get it done. But they balked, probably figuring they could come back to it.

 

Then Aaron Boone played some pick-up basketball, and the rest is history.

 

And he may have easily played in Boston for only 4 years, win two MVP's and then opt out. Maybe in that alternate universe, Boston got Arod in his Prime and never got stuck with the bad contract. Maybe they win in 04 and 05 06? You just never know, that's not the world we live in.

[vegasbob]

Rays and Jays failed to show up in the WC . the hell with both teams, and glad they are done

[FredLynn]

Rays and Jays failed to show up in the WC . the hell with both teams, and glad they are done

 

At this point my favorite team is whoever is playing the Yankees.

Go M's

[Nick]

Blue Jays losing the series after leading 8-1 was fun. They are a cocky bunch.

 

Pitching, pitching, pitching.

 

I think Bello has a floor of #4 starter. Who knows what the ceiling is for the guy. Pivetta is nothing more than an inning eater. At best, he does Porcello imitation well.

 

Crawford and especially Winckowski should be in the pen.

 

Next potential starter is Mata. He should be given a chance to start sometime in 2023 (after he's no longer eligible for major league experience). As I said before, he was the highest prospect before his surgery. He's still humming at 98 mph or so.

 

Best scenario is for Bello and Mata to anchor our staff three years from now.

 

If Whitlock is good enough to be #3, I'd say go for it.

 

#1 Priority is Devers, Xander second. You're building a championship team anchored by Devers, not Xander.

[Bellhorn04]

#1 Priority is Devers, Xander second. You're building a championship team anchored by Devers, not Xander.

 

But because of their different contract expiry dates, they have to deal with Xander first.

[moonslav59]

But because of their different contract expiry dates, they have to deal with Xander first.

 

But, if they know, now, they will not sign both, Devers becomes the top priority.

 

We don't know the thinking on this.

[notin]

But because of their different contract expiry dates, they have to deal with Xander first.

 

I think all this extension talk on Devers has completely de-emphasized that he does in fact already have a contract for 2023…

[notin]

But, if they know, now, they will not sign both, Devers becomes the top priority.

 

We don't know the thinking on this.

 

You can only sign the ones willing to sign…

[Old Red]

But, if they know, now, they will not sign both, Devers becomes the top priority.

 

We don't know the thinking on this.

 

Bogey is the top priority right now. Raffy is still under contract though next year. If they don’t sign Bogey who is real close to Raffy it will be even harder to sign Raffy. If other teams really want Raffy if he becomes a FA I don’t see the Red Sox winning any contract wars with other teams.

[Nick]

Package deals are often overrated....only happens in NBA where players control the league.

[moonslav59]

You can only sign the ones willing to sign…

 

Yes, but that does not change what your top priority might be, until one says no to your top offer.

[Old Red]

Yes, but that does not change what your top priority might be, until one says no to your top offer.

 

Great article today in Yanks Go Yard concerning the Bogey situation.

[moonslav59]

Bogey is the top priority right now. Raffy is still under contract though next year. If they don’t sign Bogey who is real close to Raffy it will be even harder to sign Raffy. If other teams really want Raffy if he becomes a FA I don’t see the Red Sox winning any contract wars with other teams.

 

That's your opinion, and if the Sox feel they can sign both, then yes. Bogey comes first.

 

if a reset is in the plans for 2023 or 2024, it still makes signing both possible, but the rest of the team n eeds will suffer greatly. This is where an either or situation mat arise, and a higher priority may be given to Devers, if they value him more.

[Old Red]

That's your opinion, and if the Sox feel they can sign both, then yes. Bogey comes first.

 

if a reset is in the plans for 2023 or 2024, it still makes signing both possible, but the rest of the team n eeds will suffer greatly. This is where an either or situation mat arise, and a higher priority may be given to Devers, if they value him more.

That’s right that’s my opinion just like your constant reset opinions that i don’t hear anyone who matters from the Red Sox talk about, and which I’m hopeful the crybaby fans as you call them can do something about. No reset, no rebuilds, no cliffs, and no more last place finishes. In other words go all in.

[Old Red]

Yes, but that does not change what your top priority might be, until one says no to your top offer.

 

Personally I think what Bloom, and Kennedy have been doing the last few weeks is all lip service, and PR. It’s the old actions speak louder than words, and to me the actions of the contract offers before this season speaks a lot louder than the lip service of the last few weeks.

[moonslav59]

That’s right that’s my opinion just like your constant reset opinions that i don’t hear anyone who matters from the Red Sox talk about, and which I’m hopeful the crybaby fans as you call them can do something about. No reset, no rebuilds, no cliffs, and no more last place finishes. In other words go all in.

 

We have never gone 3 years straight over the tax line. Yes, I'm making an assumption we won't, this time, either.

 

BTW, there have been statements made about being fiscally responsible. We can both read into that what we want.

 

If we go over the tax line for 3 straight years or more, it will not only cost Henry money, but there are draft and bonus pool penalties involved- making it harder to maintain a longer term success strategy.

 

I do not think resetting means more last place finishes. It doesn't have to be all in or all out, and I don't think top Sox management has ever felt like we'd finish in last place, except for maybe 2020. They don't plan for last place, but they don't plan for a ring every year, either. Unless you have a Dodger payroll or a Braves farm system, you screw yourself by trying to go all in, every year.

 

IMO, we are trying to build up a farm system that can maintain a consistent winning tradition with no cliffs, no rebuilds and no more last places, but certainly with some restes scattered every 2-3 years along the way. It is possible to win it all in reset years, if the plan is sound and in place. We have done it before.

 

Keep wishing JH changes his ways, if you want. It is a plan that should work. I'm just saying I won't believe it, until it happens. There is too much to lose by going over for that third year.

 

Had we reset, this year, our next 2 years would be more encouraging, IMO. I'm fine knowing you and others see it differently.

[moonslav59]

Personally I think what Bloom, and Kennedy have been doing the last few weeks is all lip service, and PR. It’s the old actions speak louder than words, and to me the actions of the contract offers before this season speaks a lot louder than the lip service of the last few weeks.

 

So, you are saying they will not spend big?

[Old Red]

So, you are saying they will not spend big?

 

I’m talking about Bogey, and Raffy.

[Larry Cook]

That’s right that’s my opinion just like your constant reset opinions that i don’t hear anyone who matters from the Red Sox talk about, and which I’m hopeful the crybaby fans as you call them can do something about. No reset, no rebuilds, no cliffs, and no more last place finishes. In other words go all in.

 

I really hope you are correct. I think boras and bogey got some sort of a deal worked out with another team and Hang’em Chaim knows what he has to pony up to keep bogey!

 

We need a high end starter, closer, short stop (if bogey leaves) and a right fielder.

[moonslav59]

I’m talking about Bogey, and Raffy.

 

So, again, you don't think they will spend big and sign one or both of these guys?

 

If they sign both, do you think they will spend big to fill out the rest of the holes?

[Old Red]

So, again, you don't think they will spend big and sign one or both of these guys?

 

If they sign both, do you think they will spend big to fill out the rest of the holes?

 

Like I have said for weeks now is I don’t see how they can do much planning until the Bogey especially, and Raffy situations are settled, and then go from there. I don’t pretend to get into Bloom’s head especially after the JBJ trade last offseason. I think signing Bogey is iffy, and Raffy more so especially if he hits the open market, where the Sox won’t match some big offer.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

Like I have said for weeks now is I don’t see how they can do much planning until the Bogey especially, and Raffy situations are settled, and then go from there. I don’t pretend to get into Bloom’s head especially after the JBJ trade last offseason. I think signing Bogey is iffy, and Raffy more so especially if he hits the open market, where the Sox won’t match some big offer.

 

So, no opinion.

[Old Red]

So, no opinion.

 

I gave my opinion. Iffy, and slim to none.

[moonslav59]

I gave my opinion. Iffy, and slim to none.

 

That's what I thought you felt, but then I question why you seem to think I'm wrong when I say I think (not know) they will reset in '23 or '24.

Edited October 9, 2022 by moonslav59