A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Hugh2]

No, you are not being asked to be the GM, but just saying get a 1Bman without specifics is not constructive, IMO.

 

Bobby was coming off of a season in which after 1.5 years at the MLB level he was sporting a .820 OPS and Casas who is your top-ranked prospects (a first baseman) is a year away. Almost NOBODY was criticizing the Sox for not upgrading the first base position. Probably the most justifiable move Bloom has made (or not made). Not all decisions work out, even if they're good ones seemingly at the time.

[Old Red]

No, you are not being asked to be the GM, but just saying get a 1Bman without specifics is not constructive, IMO.

 

So you are still sticking to the assumption that Bloom could not have gotten anyone? I’m sticking to the assumption that he could have, and should have, and didn’t. We seem to be at an impasse again, and something that has been beaten to death already, so once again let’s move on to 2023, because 2022 for all intense, and purposes is dead, and gone.

[moonslav59]

They went into the season thinking after two years and a .820 OPS that Bobby D would be fine. Probably the most defensible move Bloom made, not plugging a hole that seemingly didn't exist at the time.

 

Then Casas got hurt May 20th- about the time he might have been called up. I'm not sure they knew he'd miss that much time.

 

They also thought maybe Cordero or Arroyo could fill in, until Casas returned or Dalbec turned things around.

 

It didn't work.

 

I realize many, including Red, thought it was not going to work, and they ended up being right. Hurray for them- bad for the Sox.

 

It may certainly be possible, a 1Bman was available for a price Bloom thought was too high, and he can be blamed for that, but before I call him out on that, I'd like to know what was demanded. I am pretty sure, trading away a key prospect for a rental 1Bman was not something Bloom or the longer term plan would be in favor of.

 

Plus, I doubt even getting Josh Bell that early would have been nearly enough to keep us competitive. If it did, it might have created a situation where we would hav ebeen buyers at the deadline- screwing over our future, even more than we did, anyway by not at least trading JD and Nate and re-setting the tax.

[moonslav59]

So you are still sticking to the assumption that Bloom could not have gotten anyone?

 

No, I never said that.

 

I said why not suggest an actual offer than makes sense to both teams. That's constructive.

 

Saying fire Bloom for not making a trade for a phantom is not constructive, IMO. I'm fine with that being your position. I just have an issue with you calling that constructive.

 

Teams rarely make trades in May and June. It is very rare, and usually it is for a back-up who may have had as much promise as Dalbec/Cordero/Arroyo, but likely would have done better, granted. You can't do any worse than what we got from May 20th to the Hosmer trade.

[Old Red]

Then Casas got hurt May 20th- about the time he might have been called up. I'm not sure they knew he'd miss that much time.

 

They also thought maybe Cordero or Arroyo could fill in, until Casas returned or Dalbec turned things around.

 

It didn't work.

 

I realize many, including Red, thought it was not going to work, and they ended up being right. Hurray for them- bad for the Sox.

 

It may certainly be possible, a 1Bman was available for a price Bloom thought was too high, and he can be blamed for that, but before I call him out on that, I'd like to know what was demanded. I am pretty sure, trading away a key prospect for a rental 1Bman was not something Bloom or the longer term plan would be in favor of.

 

Plus, I doubt even getting Josh Bell that early would have been nearly enough to keep us competitive. If it did, it might have created a situation where we would hav ebeen buyers at the deadline- screwing over our future, even more than we did, anyway by not at least trading JD and Nate and re-setting the tax.

Once again worrying so much about the future that may never turn out to be good for taking care of the here, and now. You are under the assumption that Bloom even tried to get. 1B, and I’m under the assumption he did not. Who knows who is right, but the fact is nothing was done, and the 2022 Team suffered, because of it.

[moonslav59]

Bobby was coming off of a season in which after 1.5 years at the MLB level he was sporting a .820 OPS and Casas who is your top-ranked prospects (a first baseman) is a year away. Almost NOBODY was criticizing the Sox for not upgrading the first base position. Probably the most justifiable move Bloom has made (or not made). Not all decisions work out, even if they're good ones seemingly at the time.

 

I think Casas was widely viewed as being ML ready by June 2022. He would likely have been called up by early June, had he not gotten hurt.

 

I remember many posters bitching about using Schwarber at 1B in 2021. While his D was a negative, nobody was complaining afterwards. I don't think it was a farce to at last try Cordero, then Arroyo t 1B, before looking elsewhere, either.

 

By May 30th, Cordero's OPS was up to .793. His D sucked, but the hope was he'd improve- like Schwarbs did. He DID NOT. I think he even got worse as time went by. Did they go too long? In hindsight, yes.

 

Should they have tried Arroyo at 1B, sooner? Maybe.

 

[Old Red]

No, I never said that.

 

I said why not suggest an actual offer than makes sense to both teams. That's constructive.

 

Saying fire Bloom for not making a trade for a phantom is not constructive, IMO. I'm fine with that being your position. I just have an issue with you calling that constructive.

 

Teams rarely make trades in May and June. It is very rare, and usually it is for a back-up who may have had as much promise as Dalbec/Cordero/Arroyo, but likely would have done better, granted. You can't do any worse than what we got from May 20th to the Hosmer trade.

Now you are hung up on being constructive. Phantom? Once again you keep clinging to no one makes a trade in May, and trade, and I guess that proves it, because Bloom didn’t. I guess Bloom just isn’t as good as you think he is.

[moonslav59]

Once again worrying so much about the future that may never turn out to be good for taking care of the here, and now. You are under the assumption that Bloom even tried to get. 1B, and I’m under the assumption he did not. Who knows who is right, but the fact is nothing was done, and the 2022 Team suffered, because of it.

 

It's the GM job to "worry about the future," and I'm sure every GM worries about it more than I do.

 

Yes, teams often "suffer" because the future is chosen over the present. It's the nature of a GM's job.

 

I'm not saying Bloom had no choices of getting a capable 1Bman at a reasonable cost, but I never heard a peep about any rumrs of 1Bmen available, and to my knowledge, none were traded between May 20th and the end of July.

 

If you know of any, now would be a good time to name names.

 

I'm not saying Bloom is blameless on this issue. Ultimately, he was wrong to trust Dalbec & Casas, despite my opinion that every GM would have too.

 

He trusted Cordero could improve at 1B D. He was woefully wrong.

 

He is partially to blame, for sure, but I thought it was the players who win or lose games.

 

Bloom bet and lost. We all lost.

[Old Red]

It's the GM job to "worry about the future," and I'm sure every GM worries about it more than I do.

 

Yes, teams often "suffer" because the future is chosen over the present. It's the nature of a GM's job.

 

I'm not saying Bloom had no choices of getting a capable 1Bman at a reasonable cost, but I never heard a peep about any rumrs of 1Bmen available, and to my knowledge, none were traded between May 20th and the end of July.

 

If you know of any, now would be a good time to name names.

 

I'm not saying Bloom is blameless on this issue. Ultimately, he was wrong to trust Dalbec & Casas, despite my opinion that every GM would have too.

 

He trusted Cordero could improve at 1B D. He was woefully wrong.

 

He is partially to blame, for sure, but I thought it was the players who win or lose games.

 

Bloom bet and lost. We all lost.

Didn’t Santana get traded to Seattle in June?

[moonslav59]

Now you are hung up on being constructive. Phantom? Once again you keep clinging to no one makes a trade in May, and trade, and I guess that proves it, because Bloom didn’t. I guess Bloom just isn’t as good as you think he is.

 

I call vague suggestions non constructive. maybe "phantom" was too harsh. Sorry.

 

I also said it is just my opinion.

[moonslav59]

Didn’t Santana get traded to Seattle in June?

 

Okay! Great!

 

I wasn't busting your balls, but I have asked for names over 10 times.

 

Yes, I now see he was traded on June 27th. I don't know how good the return value was, of if Bloom could or would have tried to top the players given by SEA (Fleming and Mills- both show no good numbers to date.)

 

This trade was still 5 weeks after Casas got hurt, but thanks for suggesting a specific offer.

[mvp 78]

yep

 

Fixing 20-46 record vs AL East won't be easy without infusion of new talent.

 

I think an infusion of HEALTHY talent should help a little.

[Old Red]

Okay! Great!

 

I wasn't busting your balls, but I have asked for names over 10 times.

 

Yes, I now see he was traded on June 27th. I don't know how good the return value was, of if Bloom could or would have tried to top the players given by SEA (Fleming and Mills- both show no good numbers to date.)

 

This trade was still 5 weeks after Casas got hurt, but thanks for suggesting a specific offer.

 

I don’t know who else was out there. I wasn’t looking for someone who you would have had to have given up a top prospect for, but just someone who could play adequate D at 1B. I fully understand starting the season the way they did at 1B, but early on it was pretty clear that things weren’t working, and to me something should have been done. Not to go all in as you say, but to get someone who could at least look like a 1B, and not like someone in Little League trying out for the position. It was embarrassing to say the least.

[moonslav59]

I don’t know who else was out there. I wasn’t looking for someone who you would have had to have given up a top prospect for, but just someone who could play adequate D at 1B. I fully understand starting the season the way they did at 1B, but early on it was pretty clear that things weren’t working, and to me something should have been done. Not to go all in as you say, but to get someone who could at least look like a 1B, and not like someone in Little League trying out for the position. It was embarrassing to say the least.

 

I don't think Santana would have cost too much.

 

I am doubtful he was available in late May, but we could have gotten 4-5 weeks or more from him.

 

You have a good point, IMO, now.

[moonslav59]

Canada to drop COVID border measures on Oct 1st.

 

Maybe, by next season, the unvaxxed will be allowed to play in TOR.

[Old Red]

Canada to drop COVID border measures on Oct 1st.

 

Maybe, by next season, the unvaxxed will be allowed to play in TOR.

 

Dropping just before the postseason starts. Maybe they should have waited a few weeks.

[harmony]

I don't think Santana would have cost too much.

 

I am doubtful he was available in late May, but we could have gotten 4-5 weeks or more from him.

 

You have a good point, IMO, now.

In the June 28 trade for Carlos Santana, the Seattle Mariners gave up 27-year-old righthander Wyatt Mills and 23-year-old righthander William Fleming:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/millswy01.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=flemin004wil

 

The low cost for three-plus months of Santana was reasonable (although Santana's clubhouse contributions reportedly have outweighed his on-field performance).

[notin]

Canada to drop COVID border measures on Oct 1st.

 

Maybe, by next season, the unvaxxed will be allowed to play in TOR.

 

For all the fuss about this, the US has the same laws regarding visitors. That’s why all the Dominican players are vaccinated and there were never any who couldn’t travel to Canada..

[notin]

I think an infusion of HEALTHY talent should help a little.

 

Even the one of the deadline re-enforcements got injured…

[moonslav59]

Dropping just before the postseason starts.

 

I guess they want people coming for the game.

 

Nothing about unvaxxed player restrictions, as far as I know.

[mvp 78]

Even the one of the deadline re-enforcements got injured…

 

Chaim should start watching Starship Troopers so that he'll know how to kill the injury bug before it gets out of control next year.

[harmony]

For all the fuss about this, the US has the same laws regarding visitors. That’s why all the Dominican players are vaccinated and there were never any who couldn’t travel to Canada..

I support the restrictions even though this month I went to Canada fully vaccinated and boosted but returned with a nasty bout of COVID.

[dgalehouse]

Dropping just before the postseason starts. Maybe they should have waited a few weeks.

 

About time. It was stupid to begin with.

[moonslav59]

Here is my current DFA/non-tender/trade for far-away prospects list:

 

(Pham and Paxton have options)

 

Chang

Almonte

DHern

Bazardo

Ort

Cordero

Brasier

 

Not likely, but would not cry seeing them traded:

Downs

Danish

Duran

Hosmer (not until we get a better read on Casas)

Seabold

Winckowski

Taylor (if and only if deemed permanently damaged goods)

 

[moonslav59]

If you had to pick one trade out of these listed, which would it be? (BTV Values listed)

 

For Lopez (MIA) 35.3

A. Casas 39.7

B. Rafaela 15.1, Yorke 12.3 & Wikelman 6.6

 

For Luzardo (MIA) 22.1

C. Rafaela 15.1 & Wikelman 6.6

D. Yorke 12.3, Wikelman 6.6, Duran 5.9

 

For both Lopez 35.3 & AGarcia -28.5

E. Wikelman

 

For both Luzardo, A Garcia and $8M cash

F. Wikelman

 

For both Lopez 35.3 & Luzardo 22.2

G. Casas 39.9, Rafaela 15.1 & Winckowski 3.3

 

For Lopez 35.3, Luzardo 22.1 & AGarcia -28.5

H. Rafaela 15.1, Yorke 12.1 & Winckowski 3.3

I. Yorke 12.1, Wikelman 6.6, Duran 5.9 & Winckowski 3.3

 

[notin]

Chaim should start watching Starship Troopers so that he'll know how to kill the injury bug before it gets out of control next year.

 

No one should have to watch that atrocity and making anyone do so should be a punishable war crime…

[dgalehouse]

The Sox can mend some fences by re-signing Bogaerts and Devers. Then make a serious attempt to keep Wacha. Add a slugging outfield/DH type. Other than that , I T B S. It's the bullpen, stupid.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If you had to pick one trade out of these listed, which would it be? (BTV Values listed)

 

For Lopez (MIA) 35.3

A. Casas 39.7

B. Rafaela 15.1, Yorke 12.3 & Wikelman 6.6

 

For Luzardo (MIA) 22.1

C. Rafaela 15.1 & Wikelman 6.6

D. Yorke 12.3, Wikelman 6.6, Duran 5.9

 

For both Lopez 35.3 & AGarcia -28.5

E. Wikelman

 

For both Luzardo, A Garcia and $8M cash

F. Wikelman

 

For both Lopez 35.3 & Luzardo 22.2

G. Casas 39.9, Rafaela 15.1 & Winckowski 3.3

 

For Lopez 35.3, Luzardo 22.1 & AGarcia -28.5

H. Rafaela 15.1, Yorke 12.1 & Winckowski 3.3

I. Yorke 12.1, Wikelman 6.6, Duran 5.9 & Winckowski 3.3

 

 

I eye I, captain.

[Old Red]

The Sox can mend some fences by re-signing Bogaerts and Devers. Then make a serious attempt to keep Wacha. Add a slugging outfield/DH type. Other than that , I T B S. It's the bullpen, stupid.

 

Sounds like a good plan to me, and like I keep saying the Bogey, and Raffy situations have to be taken care of one way, or the other, before anything else, could, or should be done. The fact that it hasn’t is not a good sign to me.

[moonslav59]

The Sox can mend some fences by re-signing Bogaerts and Devers. Then make a serious attempt to keep Wacha. Add a slugging outfield/DH type. Other than that , I T B S. It's the bullpen, stupid.

 

Is that enough?

 

We break even, if lucky, on Bogey, Devers and Wacha.

 

We lose Nate, Hill, Strahm and add maybe Nimmo (your OF) and some pen help.

 

I think we need to add another solid SP'er, too, minimum.