A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

Has anyone mentioned that the Red Sox released Franchy Cordero and all of his skills and athleticism? Now we have Winkowski (the league leader in hard hit balls) in return for Benintendi.

 

...and three other prospects: de la Rosa, Valdez & Gambrell

 

Also, Beni's team control is over, so his side of the trade is completed.

 

[moonslav59]

Benintendi is also available if we want him back…

 

So, Beni for Beni + prospects.

 

LOL

[Hugh2]

...and three other prospects: de la Rosa, Valdez & Gambrell

 

Also, Beni's team control is over, so his side of the trade is completed.

 

 

Yeah, we can close the books on this one. Not sure Rosa or Gambrelo will ever amount to anything, but it’s not exactly like Andrew lit the world on fire after the Sox traded him.

 

Still Winck has touched 99 MPH out of the pen, I wonder if he could reestablish himself as an effective reliever if the Sox want to close the book on him as a starter. They could hypothetically win this trade if that happened.

 

I don’t ever want to count on him as a starter so I’d love to see them try him out there. Perhaps they still view him as a swing man.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, we can close the books on this one. Not sure Rosa or Gambrelo will ever amount to anything, but it’s not exactly like Andrew lit the world on fire after the Sox traded him.

 

Still Winck has touched 99 MPH out of the pen, I wonder if he could reestablish himself as an effective reliever if the Sox want to close the book on him as a starter. They could hypothetically win this trade if that happened.

 

I don’t ever want to count on him as a starter so I’d love to see them try him out there. Perhaps they still view him as a swing man.

 

My hopes on Wink are pretty low.

 

The trade was nothing much to complain about, IMO. One could argue we used the money saved by trading Beni to sign Renfroe.

 

One could then argue, we got JBJ back because of Renfroe. (Or, one could argue the money saved was spent on Marwin.)

 

Trades like this could be twisted and turned into whatever we want it to be, I guess.

[Hugh2]

My hopes on Wink are pretty low.

 

The trade was nothing much to complain about, IMO. One could argue we used the money saved by trading Beni to sign Renfroe.

 

One could then argue, we got JBJ back because of Renfroe. (Or, one could argue the money saved was spent on Marwin.)

 

Trades like this could be twisted and turned into whatever we want it to be, I guess.

 

Oh me too, Wink is very low on my list of guys I expect something from. Still, 99 mph out of the pen makes one wonder.

[Bellhorn04]

My hopes on Wink are pretty low.

 

The trade was nothing much to complain about, IMO. One could argue we used the money saved by trading Beni to sign Renfroe.

 

One could then argue, we got JBJ back because of Renfroe. (Or, one could argue the money saved was spent on Marwin.)

 

Trades like this could be twisted and turned into whatever we want it to be, I guess.

 

My complaint would be that Cordero came to the plate 411 times for us over two seasons and performed at lower than replacement level, with a cumulative fWAR of -1.0.

 

That's where the real damage of the trade was inflicted.

[Bellhorn04]

Two years in a row Chaim has traded for outfielders who ended up getting a lot of playing time at lower than replacement level-Cordero and JBJ.

[notin]

Yeah, we can close the books on this one. Not sure Rosa or Gambrelo will ever amount to anything, but it’s not exactly like Andrew lit the world on fire after the Sox traded him.

 

Still Winck has touched 99 MPH out of the pen, I wonder if he could reestablish himself as an effective reliever if the Sox want to close the book on him as a starter. They could hypothetically win this trade if that happened.

 

I don’t ever want to count on him as a starter so I’d love to see them try him out there. Perhaps they still view him as a swing man.

 

 

His big issues were before the Sox traded him, like in his last season he posted a .442 OPS and eventually lost time in LF to Yairo Munoz, Michael Chavis and Jose Peraza…

[notin]

Two years in a row Chaim has traded for outfielders who ended up getting a lot of playing time at lower than replacement level-Cordero and JBJ.

 

So … Verdugo for Marcell Ozuna this year?

[notin]

My complaint would be that Cordero came to the plate 411 times for us over two seasons and performed at lower than replacement level, with a cumulative fWAR of -1.0.

 

That's where the real damage of the trade was inflicted.

 

Not sure why Cordero got so many plate appearances but Travis Shaw only got like 12…

[Bellhorn04]

His big issues were before the Sox traded him, like in his last season he posted a .442 OPS and eventually lost time in LF to Yairo Munoz, Michael Chavis and Jose Peraza…

 

If you want to call 2020 a season. He had 52 PA's and then went on the IL for the duration.

[mvp 78]

Taylor was pretty damn good in 2019.

 

That was a long time ago and he's been very injured and struggle to come back.

[mvp 78]

Cody Bellinger.

 

Horrible swing for Fenway. I wouldn't take him for anything more than $5M AAV here.

[mvp 78]

Someone will pay more than we think he's worth.

 

Maybe he'd do well at a LHB park like MIL or CIN.

[mvp 78]

MLBTR says the Sox are "showing interest" in ...

 

Kodai Senga

Andrew Heany

Seth Lugo

Corey Kluber

Nathan Eovaldi

Rich Hill

 

(No mention of Wacha.)

 

Wacha was smoke and mirrors last year. I don't want them to overpay for Heaney though. I'm not sure what's going on there.

[mvp 78]

If we are again dumpster diving, I suggest we bring up young guys and give them experience.

 

I am sick and tired of watching Brasier. I rather watch paint dry. Is he really going to make us much better? If he goes on a brief hot streak, how long can he sustain it? How soon will he come down to earth. My grandmother would be more fun to watch and she's been dead for several years.

 

I want to see every minor leaguer pitch in the spot that Brasier will pitch. I rather go get my teeth pulled. Ugh.

 

100%, plus he'll be about $2.5M this year.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, we can close the books on this one. Not sure Rosa or Gambrelo will ever amount to anything, but it’s not exactly like Andrew lit the world on fire after the Sox traded him.

 

Still Winck has touched 99 MPH out of the pen, I wonder if he could reestablish himself as an effective reliever if the Sox want to close the book on him as a starter. They could hypothetically win this trade if that happened.

 

I don’t ever want to count on him as a starter so I’d love to see them try him out there. Perhaps they still view him as a swing man.

 

I think the Sox have a lot of capable guys in the minors. Clearly, they can't all fit into the rotation. I think Crawford, Winckowski and others would be better in the pen especially if their stuff is playing up.

[mvp 78]

My complaint would be that Cordero came to the plate 411 times for us over two seasons and performed at lower than replacement level, with a cumulative fWAR of -1.0.

 

That's where the real damage of the trade was inflicted.

 

Bloom traded Beni at his absolute lowest value. Made no real sense.

[notin]

Wacha was smoke and mirrors last year. I don't want them to overpay for Heaney though. I'm not sure what's going on there.

 

Probably nothing more than due diligence…

[notin]

Bloom traded Beni at his absolute lowest value. Made no real sense.

 

One possibility was that he suspected it wasn’t his last point.

 

Or his having two years of control left over waiting to deal him when he just had one. Or both…

[a700hitter]

One possibility was that he suspected it wasn’t his last point.

 

Or his having two years of control left over waiting to deal him when he just had one. Or both…

Did Bloom take any of his salary?

[notin]

Did Bloom take any of his salary?

 

I don’t think so, although he was only in the neighborhood of $5mill AAV…

[mvp 78]

Probably nothing more than due diligence…

 

I hope so. Maybe too much due diligence.

[mvp 78]

Did Bloom take any of his salary?

 

No.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think so, although he was only in the neighborhood of $5mill AAV…

 

He was cheap money. It seemed to only be a move to make room for Verdugo and Renfroe? At the time, nobody knew how all three guys would play OF at the same time as Beni and Verdugo weren't really fit for CF.

[moonslav59]

Oh me too, Wink is very low on my list of guys I expect something from. Still, 99 mph out of the pen makes one wonder.

 

I still have some hope- more than I do for Downs & Duran (and Seabold).

[moonslav59]

My complaint would be that Cordero came to the plate 411 times for us over two seasons and performed at lower than replacement level, with a cumulative fWAR of -1.0.

 

That's where the real damage of the trade was inflicted.

 

Most of that was from atrocious defense and being forced to play 1B, when it was obvious he was a butcher, there. His meager + O bWAR in 2022 (+0.4) keeps hope alive he could stick, somewhere, as a DH, but certainly he did not fulfill the hopes he had at the time of the trade.

 

Nobody can say we won that trade, unless you can claim we signed Renfroe with the money saved, but that is a stretch and dubious reasoning.

 

The solace is that we can look back and say that no way Beni would have led us to greater things, beyond maybe a few more wins in lost seasons. The 2021 team was better with Renfroe not Beni.

[notin]

He was cheap money. It seemed to only be a move to make room for Verdugo and Renfroe? At the time, nobody knew how all three guys would play OF at the same time as Beni and Verdugo weren't really fit for CF.

 

 

 

I actually assumed Renfroe was acquired to platoon with Benintendi…

[Hugh2]

Most of that was from atrocious defense and being forced to play 1B, when it was obvious he was a butcher, there. His meager + O bWAR in 2022 (+0.4) keeps hope alive he could stick, somewhere, as a DH, but certainly he did not fulfill the hopes he had at the time of the trade.

 

Nobody can say we won that trade, unless you can claim we signed Renfroe with the money saved, but that is a stretch and dubious reasoning.

 

The solace is that we can look back and say that no way Beni would have led us to greater things, beyond maybe a few more wins in lost seasons. The 2021 team was better with Renfroe not Beni.

 

That’s actually not that huge of a stretch, if Verdugo replaced Betts, Renfroe is the obvious replacement for Benny. If Teddy develops into a middle relieve, the Sox easily win that trade. The bar for that trade is very very low.

[mvp 78]

I actually assumed Renfroe was acquired to platoon with Benintendi…

 

It was a very confusing 2 months.