A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[notin]

I look forward to the days when a Sox GM starts trading prospects again before they're exposed as non-prospects when they reach the big leagues (see Dalbec, Duran).

 

Right now, on the MLB's Red Sox prospect list, there are 10 players in the top 30 who can play shortstop. Even if the best of them are moved to other positions, there has to be a few expendables that can be added to a package for a legitimate arm or two.

 

Either that or at least bring one up that can provide stellar D, even if its in the late innings. Instead, Bloom trades a pitcher for a speed guy who blew out his knee.

 

I’m hoping the plan is to move a few if the shortstops, preferably for arms. I get drafting high school shortstops, as often they’re just the best players on the team whose future is likely in other positions. Throw Yorke and Valdez into the mix and that’s two more MI.

 

Some of them(Rafaela, Hamilton) are already being moved off SS. I expect others to as well. But I don’t see all of them staying in the system. The main reason most could still be here is simply that only Rafaela and Hamilton are above A ball…

[Old Red]

Talk about regurgitation.

 

 

Stating a most likely scenario that not all minor league players are prospects let alone ending up in the ML as a productive player. To bad for you that you don’t like that opinion, but that’s the way I see it.

[moonslav59]

Every potential deal has a tipping point, and they fall through all the time. The Dodgers knew we did not have a lot of other bidders for Mookie because of his $27 million salary, and they knew we were anxious to get under the tax line. They could have turned their backs on the deal and set their sights on signing Mookie as a free agent.

 

I think we need to face the fact that Bloom got what he could under the circumstances.

 

I'm not sure any team, other than the Dodger, would have also taken on half-Price's salary.

 

I realize everyone knows this, but when you hear generalizations like, "BLoom could have done better," I wonder with what team?

 

IMO, no other team takes $42M on without asking us to take a salary dump in return or to pay down more of Price's deal. I know there were a few guys, like 700, who felt the Dodgers wanted Price at that money, but I seriously doubt that to be true.

 

It wasn't just trading Betts.

[Old Red]

I'm not sure any team, other than the Dodger, would have also taken on half-Price's salary.

 

I realize everyone knows this, but when you hear generalizations like, "BLoom could have done better," I wonder with what team?

 

IMO, no other team takes $42M on without asking us to take a salary dump in return or to pay down more of Price's deal. I know there were a few guys, like 700, who felt the Dodgers wanted Price at that money, but I seriously doubt that to be true.

 

It wasn't just trading Betts.

 

Once again we’ve heard this same speech 978 times, and once again I’ll give a rebuttal that Mookie should still be in a Red Sox uniform, and at the very least the Red Sox should have been building around Mookie, and Raffy, and not just Raffy. None of the suspects in the farm system most likely won’t turn out to be anywhere near a talent as Mookie.

[moonslav59]

I have plenty.

 

But then even the deepest farm system only has maybe 8-12 Major Leaguers in it at any time…

 

When is the last time we even had 8 prospects or "suspects" beating on the MLB door, at the same time? We have over 10, now, and that's not counting Bello, Wink and Wong, who just graduated. I agree, none on this list, other than Casas & Mayer are close to sure bet contributors, but many have enough promise to be optimistic about, if you choose to be.

 

Casas

Mayer

Rafaela

Mata

Walter

Murphy

EValdez

Kelly

 

That's a decent 8, with some fringy types like Abreu, Hamilton, RHern & Ort.

[mvp 78]

I guess it's no surprise that Tomase jumped all over Law's #23 ranking as evidence of Bloom's plan being a failure.

 

What's amusing is that in the very same article by Tomase is a link to a column from exactly 2 days earlier in which he was excited about the Sox having 4 in Law's top 100.

 

Tomase really needs to be given a swirlie every time he walks into Fenway.

[mvp 78]

But most importantly is the ML club?

 

The farm system has a better outlook than the MLB club for this year IMO. 2023 could be a very weird year for the Sox.

[moonslav59]

 

Law is the outlier. Whether or not the system is 11th or better is up for debate. However, the system is in much better shape than it was back in 2020.

 

Why do I get the feeling some want to trust Law's ranking over the others?

[mvp 78]

I look forward to the days when a Sox GM starts trading prospects again before they lose value when exposed to the big leagues (see Dalbec, Duran).

 

Right now, on the MLB's Red Sox prospect list, there are 10 players in the top 30 who can play shortstop. Even if the best of them are moved to other positions, there has to be a few expendables that can be added to a package for a legitimate arm or two.

Either that or at least bring one up that can provide stellar D, even if its in the late innings. Instead, Bloom trades a pitcher for a speed guy who blew out his knee.

 

Right now, GM's really only want prospects that are MLB ready or very close to it (like Rafaela). The majority of the Sox' intriguing prospects were still below AA last season. GM's don't want that risk. Too many things can go wrong between A+ and MLB.

[moonslav59]

I’m hoping the plan is to move a few if the shortstops, preferably for arms. I get drafting high school shortstops, as often they’re just the best players on the team whose future is likely in other positions. Throw Yorke and Valdez into the mix and that’s two more MI.

 

Some of them(Rafaela, Hamilton) are already being moved off SS. I expect others to as well. But I don’t see all of them staying in the system. The main reason most could still be here is simply that only Rafaela and Hamilton are above A ball…

 

I'm not sure, if you are counting Lugo as a promising MI'er, but they moved him to 3B, too.

[Bellhorn04]

Once again we’ve heard this same speech 978 times, and once again I’ll give a rebuttal that Mookie should still be in a Red Sox uniform, and at the very least the Red Sox should have been building around Mookie, and Raffy, and not just Raffy. None of the suspects in the farm system most likely won’t turn out to be anywhere near a talent as Mookie.

 

So I guess we have to check with you again-would you have wanted us to keep Mookie at 12 years and 365 million?

[sk7326]

@tylermilliken_

Red Sox farm system rankings over the last few years:

 

@BaseballAmerica

:

2020 - 23

2021 - 20

2022 - 11

Mid-2022 - 11

 

@MLBPipeline

 

2020: 25

2021: 24

2022 - 14

Mid-2022: 11

 

@keithlaw

 

2020 - 25

2021 - 20

2022 - 20

2023 - 23

 

@fangraphs

ranked the Red Sox 9th at the end of 2022.

 

Law is the outlier. Whether or not the system is 11th or better is up for debate. However, the system is in much better shape than it was back in 2020.

 

Ultimately the assessment of the system comes down to how one views the pitchers in it. The team has brought in a lot of pitchers with a fairly wide range of outcomes. Position player-wise the org is in a much better position for sure (4 guys in the top 100 is evidence there).

 

And of course longer term, the goal is for the system to be able to get to where the Dodgers are in consistently being able to make players better, or how Cleveland has been able to spit out one young starting pitcher after another.

[Old Red]

The farm system has a better outlook than the MLB club for this year IMO. 2023 could be a very weird year for the Sox.

 

Last year was weird. It can’t be worse than last year can it? Story being injured was not a good sign of things to come though.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure any team, other than the Dodger, would have also taken on half-Price's salary.

 

I realize everyone knows this, but when you hear generalizations like, "BLoom could have done better," I wonder with what team?

 

IMO, no other team takes $42M on without asking us to take a salary dump in return or to pay down more of Price's deal. I know there were a few guys, like 700, who felt the Dodgers wanted Price at that money, but I seriously doubt that to be true.

 

It wasn't just trading Betts.

 

What could be easier than saying "Bloom shoulda done better" from the armchair?

[mvp 78]

I’m hoping the plan is to move a few if the shortstops, preferably for arms. I get drafting high school shortstops, as often they’re just the best players on the team whose future is likely in other positions. Throw Yorke and Valdez into the mix and that’s two more MI.

 

Some of them(Rafaela, Hamilton) are already being moved off SS. I expect others to as well. But I don’t see all of them staying in the system. The main reason most could still be here is simply that only Rafaela and Hamilton are above A ball…

 

Lugo played 3 games in POR last season. He's most likely not a SS going forward due to skill though, not due to roster crunch.

[moonslav59]

Once again we’ve heard this same speech 978 times, and once again I’ll give a rebuttal that Mookie should still be in a Red Sox uniform, and at the very least the Red Sox should have been building around Mookie, and Raffy, and not just Raffy. None of the suspects in the farm system most likely won’t turn out to be anywhere near a talent as Mookie.

 

How is this a rebuttal? I wanted Mookie to stay, and as far as I know, I'm the only one who would have given him 14 years?

 

You keep equating the thinking that Bloom was forced to trade Betts, and probably got close the best he could for him as the same as wanting it to happen, thinking it was a good idea, or thinking it was a good trade.

 

I have always wanted us to keep Betts and wish we still had him. What is the rebuttal?

 

That our farm is full of suspects? (That seems to be your answer to every point made, no matter how unrelated.)

[mvp 78]

Why do I get the feeling some want to trust Law's ranking over the others?

 

Law is a known Sox hater. It comes up every year when we discuss him. He was also the guy who brought up the issue of DD decimating the farm system. He's a real bastard.

[Old Red]

So I guess we have to check with you again-would you have wanted us to keep Mookie at 12 years and 365 million?

 

Wanted to no, because I don’t like those long 10 yr $300M+ contracts, but having to yes if you want to keep a superstar talent bad enough. Best answer for what it is would be all I got.

[moonslav59]

Right now, GM's really only want prospects that are MLB ready or very close to it (like Rafaela). The majority of the Sox' intriguing prospects were still below AA last season. GM's don't want that risk. Too many things can go wrong between A+ and MLB.

 

I think you've said you would not be surprised to see Mayer in MLB, this year, so wouldn't he count as a proispect other GMs would want, badly?

[moonslav59]

What could be easier than saying "Bloom shoulda done better" from the armchair?

 

Indeed, and I have a lo0ng list of "coulda done better" on Bloom that actually have merit.

[Old Red]

How is this a rebuttal? I wanted Mookie to stay, and as far as I know, I'm the only one who would have given him 14 years?

 

You keep equating the thinking that Bloom was forced to trade Betts, and probably got close the best he could for him as the same as wanting it to happen, thinking it was a good idea, or thinking it was a good trade.

 

I have always wanted us to keep Betts and wish we still had him. What is the rebuttal?

 

That our farm is full of suspects? (That seems to be your answer to every point made, no matter how unrelated.)

 

Not as full of suspects as it used to be. The not so great Jeter Downs is gone.

[notin]

Lugo played 3 games in POR last season. He's most likely not a SS going forward due to skill though, not due to roster crunch.

 

I didn’t go verify the count, so I don’t know if Lugo was considered. Soxprospects lists him as “INF”…

[moonslav59]

Law is a known Sox hater. It comes up every year when we discuss him. He was also the guy who brought up the issue of DD decimating the farm system. He's a real bastard.

 

Agreed, but it still seems like a select few posters really want to embrace his analysis, almost- and I stress the word almost- like they want the farm to fail, so we fire Bloom and maybe they can strut around saying, "I told you they were all just suspects."

[moonslav59]

Not as full of suspects as it used to be. The not so great Jeter Downs is gone.

 

Another unrelated, non answer.

[Old Red]

Another unrelated, non answer.

 

A Bloom Bust it is.

[moonslav59]

I didn’t go verify the count, so I don’t know if Lugo was considered. Soxprospects lists him as “INF”…

 

soxprospects.com actually has Hamilton as the AAA SS.

 

AAA

2B Valdez

SS Hamilton

3B Koss

 

AA

2B Yorke

SS Ferguson

3B Lugo

 

A+

2B Bonaci (another ex SS)

SS Mayer

3B Paulino

 

A-

2B Liendo

SS Romero

3B Salazar

 

[moonslav59]

A Bloom Bust it is.

 

This how you remind me of Swihart's Ghost. You seem to delight in some Sox player failures, if it supports your position.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When is the last time we even had 8 prospects or "suspects" beating on the MLB door, at the same time?

 

The '88 Red Sox featured an entire line-up of homegrowns, with a lot of key rookies or second-year men like Greenwell, Burks, Benzinger and Reed. Old-timers Evans and Rice were winding down, but the top three arms in the rotation were Clemens, 25, Hurst, 30, and Boyd, 28. System surplus also allowed them to trade Anderson and Schilling for Boddicker, 30.

[Old Red]

This how you remind me of Swihart's Ghost. You seem to delight in some Sox player failures, if it supports your position.

 

My position is that Bloom is not as good as you make him out to be, and the most important aspect the WL record of the ML club has suffered, because of it, and, because of Bloom, and you can’t stand that I have that opinion. Botching, looking for that 3rd option in the fork in the road are just two of his standard operating procedures, and that try, and try again you can not overcome no matter how many columns you write that repeats itself over, and over again.

[mvp 78]

Last year was weird. It can’t be worse than last year can it? Story being injured was not a good sign of things to come though.

 

No, last year was just bad. This year could just be weird weird. They could get really hot, then really cold. They have a high ceiling and a very low floor. I think there are going to be some fun moments and not fun moments.