Fire Bloom .

[MADSTORK]

That's the whole point. Bloom is not choosing to go stingy. Henry is, and before you wish he'd be replaced, think again.

 

Henry has done this before with the Sox. It’s a roller coaster ride some years pay some years he cry’s poverty but like I said he always had a competent GM to ride the wave.

He did the same thing in England with that soccer team and fans went nuts and look at the hockey club, go read a penguins forum

Henry is no dummy, he might come across as one but after this train wreck I don’t see Orlando surviving this off-season

 

Rumor has it Epstein was in Town for almost a week? Make the f##king call John, Larry left long ago

[vegasbob]

Hernandez seems to be a feast of famine pitcher. He either has a great inning or gets bombed.

 

Hernandez is nothing but a thrower with no real ability. he has been given multiple opportunites to control/command his pitching and failed each time. he is among the people who normally would be DFA'ed if there was anyone of better skills behind them. Darwinzon will never be a MLB pitcher of any note.

[vegasbob]

IMO, Bloom does not stand a chance of surviving 2022/23 off season unless this team makes a breakout towards a playoff run like 2021. There will need to be a scapegoat for the JBJr debacle, and other non-competitive moves ( Hosmer/Pham) which while better than the incompetents they replaced are not team building moves. They are plug-ins for the moment. The business and PR side of the Sox will demand changes . It may be Cora, who himself is inexplicable, or it may be Bloom, probably a better choice PR wise.

 

These guys ( GM/Field MGR) are super cheap compared to Chris Sales , David Prices and JBJrs who just don't contribute. 2018 is getting distant in the rear view mirror.

[Jasonbay44]

Hernandez is nothing but a thrower with no real ability. he has been given multiple opportunites to control/command his pitching and failed each time. he is among the people who normally would be DFA'ed if there was anyone of better skills behind them. Darwinzon will never be a MLB pitcher of any note.

 

He was a solid pitcher last two seasons. He’s extremely inconsistent but so are most relief pitchers. If he gets DFA, he definitely gets picked up and is a middle reliever for someone.

[notin]

I actually think the race has very little to do with it here. Betts was the most talented player the team has had since Williams and a real triumph for the scouting and development group. I don't think they would run from that.

 

I think it's much more fundamental - the franchise has largely been VERY reflexive about seasons that were not amazing. The 2010-2012 stretch was the most latent of these examples ... but the 2018-2022 one is up there. Interestingly, the "coolest heads" the team has been after a disappointing season was the 2006-7 offseason and that still involved their GM leaving the team. Now the wounds are sated a bit - he team has clearly had an amazing record turning its playoff appearances into champioships - but there has been a lot of volatility. It is hard not to read the Betts trade in part as ownership's hissy fit because the team did not repeat in 2019. Really the darkly funny part is the team not being able to show Betts the giant bag after cheerfully re-upping Sale, a deal which looked dicey the second the ink was dry.

 

From what I recall, the talks for the current extensions of both Sale and Bogaerts didn’t even start (or at least get serious) until after talks with Mookie broke down.

 

In fact, my impress was had Mookie signed, in no way would the Sox be able to extend Bogaerts and Sale…

[notin]

IMO, the best baseball organizations from the fans perspective build a decent farm system that they are willing to ravage on occasion but that they for the most part use to develop players. Then if they have the money hammer they use it to bring in the big guns they need to actually have a contending team.

 

My biggest recent disappointment with Sox management was boxing themselves into having no ability whatsoever to keep Mookie. Plus they sort of just stunned themselves at the point of having worked themselves into that mess. Bad enough that we were stunned. But Sox Management sort of just shrugged its shoulders and let it all happen right in front of them.

 

I do think there is something underpinning that decision that is somewhat disconcerting. The Sox were well willing to allow a Latin player, Ortiz be the face of the franchise and the team leader. Not sure they were comfortable with a Black American in that role.

 

 

They did offer Mookie $300 million, nearly $100 million over the largest contract in team history. I would think some level of comfort had been achieved. Mookie was the one with the $400mill+ counteroffer that was closer to being the side that said “if you meet THIS demand, I’ll stay, but otherwise…”

[notin]

IMO, Bloom does not stand a chance of surviving 2022/23 off season unless this team makes a breakout towards a playoff run like 2021. There will need to be a scapegoat for the JBJr debacle, and other non-competitive moves ( Hosmer/Pham) which while better than the incompetents they replaced are not team building moves. They are plug-ins for the moment. The business and PR side of the Sox will demand changes . It may be Cora, who himself is inexplicable, or it may be Bloom, probably a better choice PR wise.

 

These guys ( GM/Field MGR) are super cheap compared to Chris Sales , David Prices and JBJrs who just don't contribute. 2018 is getting distant in the rear view mirror.

 

1. I’d bet Bloom’s job is safer than you think.

2. Why do they need a scapegoat for the JBJ debacle? It was a trade that didn’t work out. It happens. A scapegoat for a bad one year deal? This doesn’t crack even my Top 20 Worst Sox Moves. And if we really think about it, probably shouldn’t crack the Top 100, especially if Binelas or Hamilton amount to anything.

3. I doubt they fire anyone for this season just because the team went 4 years without a title…

[jung]

They did offer Mookie $300 million, nearly $100 million over the largest contract in team history. I would think some level of comfort had been achieved. Mookie was the one with the $400mill+ counteroffer that was closer to being the side that said “if you meet THIS demand, I’ll stay, but otherwise…”

 

But that was not the market price for Mookie....obviously

 

and,

 

Why did the Sox box themselves into that corner in the first place. The looming issue with how to keep Mookie if the Sox were actually going to try was LOOMING for a very long time over which the Sox never got close to positioning themselves to keep him.

 

Further to the point about a Black American being the face of and leading the contemporary Sox, throughout the period in question, the Sox PR (NESN and the actual Fenway PR dept) kept pushing the Martinez as the Zen Master Hitter as if that should define leadership of the team. "Oh look, Rafi is doing deep breathing at the plate before he steps in like JD". Well OK EXCEPT that when JD does his deep breathing he actually shakes out the jitters. Rafi jitterbugs his way to the batters box. Deep breaths and then goes back to jitterbugging. Deep breathing has just been added to Rafi's jitterbugging at the batters box which by the way the NESN broadcast team insists is one of the things that makes Rafi an interesting player. I actually think it is one of the things that is interesting to watch in Rafi as a batter.

 

The Sox organization literally tried to push the JD as team leader narrative which was pure ********.

[sk7326]

They did offer Mookie $300 million, nearly $100 million over the largest contract in team history. I would think some level of comfort had been achieved. Mookie was the one with the $400mill+ counteroffer that was closer to being the side that said “if you meet THIS demand, I’ll stay, but otherwise…”

 

The $300M sounds good - but it does undervalue the player considerably.

[Bellhorn04]

But that was not the market price for Mookie....obviously

 

and,

 

Why did the Sox box themselves into that corner in the first place. The looming issue with how to keep Mookie if the Sox were actually going to try was LOOMING for a very long time over which the Sox never got close to positioning themselves to keep him.

 

Further to the point about a Black American being the face of and leading the contemporary Sox, throughout the period in question, the Sox PR (NESN and the actual Fenway PR dept) kept pushing the Martinez as the Zen Master Hitter as if that should define leadership of the team. "Oh look, Rafi is doing deep breathing at the plate before he steps in like JD". Well OK EXCEPT that when JD does his deep breathing he actually shakes out the jitters. Rafi jitterbugs his way to the batters box. Deep breaths and then goes back to jitterbugging. Deep breathing has just been added to Rafi's jitterbugging at the batters box which by the way the NESN broadcast team insists is one of the things that makes Rafi an interesting player. I actually think it is one of the things that is interesting to watch in Rafi as a batter.

 

The Sox organization literally tried to push the JD as team leader narrative which was pure ********.

 

In a recent column in the Globe Peter Abraham wrote about how Mookie has become the face of the Dodgers and makes some troubling insinuations about how this wasn't possible in Boston.

[Bellhorn04]

The $300M sounds good - but it does undervalue the player considerably.

 

Chris Gasper asked Mookie flat out if 12/365 would have kept him in Boston and Mookie said yes. Whether it was true, who knows.

[notin]

The $300M sounds good - but it does undervalue the player considerably.

 

Same AAV as the Dodgers. Two fewer years…

[Bellhorn04]

Same AAV as the Dodgers. Two fewer years…

 

Many of us have wondered WTH happened in those "negotiations". Today I'm thinking it is a little strange that the Sox didn't make a counter to Mookie's counter, even if only for the sake of PR.

 

Based on what we know about Henry, it seems possible he just got pissed off and said eff this, move on to Bogaerts and Sale.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the biggest problem this franchise has is the terrible draft record over the last decade or so.

 

Our drafts, domestic and international, have produced 3 elite MLB players since 2009. But the last of them was in 2013.

 

Bogaerts-2009

Betts-2011

Devers-2013

 

Obviously some recent ones might join the list eventually, but it's kind of a nasty drought...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Many of us have wondered WTH happened in those "negotiations". Today I'm thinking it is a little strange that the Sox didn't make a counter to Mookie's counter, even if only for the sake of PR.

 

Based on what we know about Henry, it seems possible he just got pissed off and said eff this, move on to Bogaerts and Sale.

 

I can't blame Bloom for doing his job, which was to trade Betts AND Price. And yet, Bloom will always represent this point in history as the guy who traded the Red Sox' best generational talent in his prime.

 

Mookie said at the time the Sox were very open and transparent with him all during the process, and for all we know California is the place he wanted to be, as LA and SD were the only reported suitors. The return was no doubt depleted by the inclusion of Price, but LA had every intention of signing Betts.

 

Technically, the deal was "for one year of Betts"... but that's like defending Bloom's spending by saying "Boston has the 6th highest payroll!" when we all know a bad portion of that is tied into debts from previous regimes. Maybe a CBO shouldn't be judged by his club's overall salary rankings, but on what he actually invests in with the funds available.

[Bellhorn04]

I can't blame Bloom for doing his job, which was to trade Betts AND Price. And yet, Bloom will always represent this point in history as the guy who traded the Red Sox' best generational talent in his prime.

 

I think that's pretty questionable. I think a high percentage of fans will remember it as ownership letting Mookie go because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

I can't blame Bloom for doing his job, which was to trade Betts AND Price. And yet, Bloom will always represent this point in history as the guy who traded the Red Sox' best generational talent in his prime.

 

Mookie said at the time the Sox were very open and transparent with him all during the process, and for all we know California is the place he wanted to be, as LA and SD were the only reported suitors. The return was no doubt depleted by the inclusion of Price, but LA had every intention of signing Betts.

 

Technically, the deal was "for one year of Betts"... but that's like defending Bloom's spending by saying "Boston has the 6th highest payroll!" when we all know a bad portion of that is tied into debts from previous regimes. Maybe a CBO shouldn't be judged by his club's overall salary rankings, but on what he actually invests in with the funds available.

 

The elephant in the room.is Henry. For whatever reason Henry has decided to put all his efforts in getting an NBA franchise. That is the reason Bloom is on this economy kick because Henry wants him too. I suspect once Henry either gets his next jewel or gets rebuffed he will open up the checkbook..

 

One curious note my family in Boston former season ticket holders say Henry is not marketing the team but rather Fenway Park. They are turning the park into a year round attraction.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The elephant in the room.is Henry. For whatever reason Henry has decided to put all his efforts in getting an NBA franchise. That is the reason Bloom is on this economy kick because Henry wants him too. I suspect once Henry either gets his next jewel or gets rebuffed he will open up the checkbook..

 

One curious note my family in Boston former season ticket holders say Henry is not marketing the team but rather Fenway Park. They are turning the park into a year round attraction.

 

They can start by paying fans to sit behind the poles that hold up the roof.

[notin]

Many of us have wondered WTH happened in those "negotiations". Today I'm thinking it is a little strange that the Sox didn't make a counter to Mookie's counter, even if only for the sake of PR.

 

Based on what we know about Henry, it seems possible he just got pissed off and said eff this, move on to Bogaerts and Sale.

 

It is possible, but if it meant retaining Bogaerts - who was clearly more willing to sign - was it as negative as it’s being portrayed? Once the Betts’ negotiations stopped, X was signed within days. Had Mookie signed, would they have been able to keep Bogaerts? He only had one season left at the time.

 

And if that is the case, which it appears to be, keeping Bogaerts was one helluva compensation prize for losing Betts. And one aspect of the failed Betts extension and trade I never hear mentioned.

 

Too many cite Verdugo as simply not enough compensation for Betts. All the pundits who gave Bloom a failed grade for that deal NEVER once mentioned that maybe the real compensation was Verdugo and Bogaerts.

 

And if it was, is that so bad? Betts vs Bogaerts plus Verdugo? (Obviously Bloom had nothing to do with Bogaerts, but DD did ensure the Sox at least had something.)

[Bellhorn04]

It is possible, but if it meant retaining Bogaerts - who was clearly more willing to sign - was it as negative as it’s being portrayed? Once the Betts’ negotiations stopped, X was signed within days. Had Mookie signed, would they have been able to keep Bogaerts? He only had one season left at the time.

 

And if that is the case, which it appears to be, keeping Bogaerts was one helluva compensation prize for losing Betts. And one aspect of the failed Betts extension and trade I never hear mentioned.

 

Too many cite Verdugo as simply not enough compensation for Betts. All the pundits who gave Bloom a failed grade for that deal NEVER once mentioned that maybe the real compensation was Verdugo and Bogaerts.

 

And if it was, is that so bad? Betts vs Bogaerts plus Verdugo? (Obviously Bloom had nothing to do with Bogaerts, but DD did ensure the Sox at least had something.)

 

The rub is the 3 year opt-out in Bogey's extension, one that was likely to be exercised.

 

If it wasn't for that I'd agree.

 

Many fans, of course, think we could easily have afforded to keep both Betts and Bogaerts.

[Bellhorn04]

In retrospect of course, the Sale extension which was also enabled by not keeping Mookie, was a big mistake.

[Elktonnick]

In my view they could have except that Henry decided not to.

[Bellhorn04]

In my view they could have except that Henry decided not to.

 

Of course they could have. The money is there, that's not in question.

 

The question is whether any $350 million guaranteed contract to a baseball player is a wise investment.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

Of course they could have. The money is there, that's not in question.

 

The question is whether any $350 million guaranteed contract to a baseball player is a wise investment.

If you want to play you got to pay!

[Old Red]

Of course they could have. The money is there, that's not in question.

 

The question is whether any $350 million guaranteed contract to a baseball player is a wise investment.

 

I’ll say NO!, and always have no matter who the player.

[Bellhorn04]

If you want to play you got to pay!

 

Yes, but you can't blame Henry for getting a little soured by the likes of Crawford, Hanley, Pablo, Castillo, Price and Sale.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

Yes, but you can't blame Henry for getting a little soured by the likes of Crawford, Hanley, Pablo, Castillo, Price and Sale.

I do not think it bothered Henry at all at the time because he kept doing it. I think the reason why Henry wants to economize now was because he wished to marshal his financial resources to pursue business opportunities outside of baseball which he does from time to time.

[Bellhorn04]

I do not think it bothered Henry at all at the time because he kept doing it. I think the reason why Henry wants to economize now was because he wished to marshal his financial resources to pursue business opportunities outside of baseball which he does from time to time.

 

So how does that explain not paying Mookie?

[Elktonnick]

So how does that explain not paying Mookie?

Read the post again. The answer is obvious.

[Bellhorn04]

Read the post again. The answer is obvious.

 

The negotiations with Mookie took place between the 2018 and 2019 seasons. The same offseason they gave the extensions to Bogaerts and Sale.