Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

Now we are back to name calling(Indecisive Bum)? Wow!

 

But it's okay for you to call Dalbec Booby, right? You are too much. Another plan comes together, I guess.

[Old Red]

But it's okay for you to call Dalbec Booby, right? You are too much. Another plan comes together, I guess.

 

In all seriousness that was a mis click that I didn’t catch the 1st, or 2nd time.I wondered why you said rude.

[Bellhorn04]

In all seriousness that was a mis click that I didn’t catch the 1st, or 2nd time.I wondered why you said rude.

 

Okay. Nobody's perfect.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Ah, hell, why not?

 

But seriously, Bloom made the final decision and that's where the buck stops, but I can still picture Cora whispering in Bloom's ear.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash[/quote

I'll also think of those numbers when anyone talks about JH being "distracted" by his other ventures.

That is why he is distracted. The Red Sox only account for half that value. A sizable portion of which is Fenway Park itself with an estimated market value of nearly 1 billion dollars. Btw average attendance has decreased to levels not seen since 2002 not counting the covid years.

 

He sees more opportunity for financial growth elsewhere which is why he let LeBron James and his partners buy into to FSG in March.

 

These are facts you learn when you read something other than the Boston Globe exclusively

 

I also suggest everyone read what John Tomase just posted on the NBC sports Boston. It is a spot on analysis of the Red Sox situation. and raises interesting question as to why Alex Cora may not wish to stay around.

[Old Red]

Okay. Nobody's perfect.

 

I actually like Bobby D, and I wished he was more like his second half of last year.

[Bellhorn04]

That is why he is distracted. The Red Sox only account for half that value. A sizable portion of which is Fenway Park itself with an estimated market value of nearly 1 billion dollars. Btw average attendance has decreased to levels not seen since 2002 not counting the covid years.

 

He sees more opportunity for financial growth elsewhere which is why he let LeBron James and his partners buy into to FSG in March.

 

These are facts you learn when you read something other than the Boston Globe exclusively

 

I'm an uninformed schlub in your eyes because I prefer the Globe to WEEI and NESN. Got it, Nick.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I actually like Bobby D, and I wished he was more like his second half of last year.

 

 

With JD struggling with the bat I could see Dalbec getting some DH time.

[Old Red]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash[/quote

 

That is why he is distracted. The Red Sox only account for half that value. A sizable portion of which is Fenway Park itself with an estimated market value of nearly 1 billion dollars. Btw average attendance has decreased to levels not seen since 2002 not counting the covid years.

 

He sees more opportunity for financial growth elsewhere which is why he let LeBron James and his partners buy into to FSG in March.

 

These are facts you learn when you read something other than the Boston Globe exclusively

 

I also suggest everyone read what John Tomase just posted on the NBC sports Boston. It is a spot on analysis of the Red Sox situation. and raises interesting question as to why Alex Cora may not wish to stay around.

Excellent article.

[Bellhorn04]

With JD struggling with the bat I could see Dalbec getting some DH time.

 

I think Dalbec will still start against lefties, and get some other AB's at third and DH.

[notin]

The Sale extension at the time it was negotiated was IMO one of the top 5 worse FO decisions the Sox made so far in this century assuming they might have been willing to accept the notion of Mookie as team leader. If not then maybe the Sox upper management just did not give a crap.

 

As for Renfro, I never like putting what is essentially a corner OFer in CF. CF is neither RF nor LF. It should be avoided unless you want your CF to look occasionally stupid and take your FO and field management along for the Stupid show. While I am stunned to think how much JBJ actually cost the Red Sox in salary this year, you can still watch him play CF and gain an understanding for what distinguishes CF from either RF or LF. Mookie is a very special talent and Mookie could basically move over to CF without much of an issue primarily because he has so much range as an OF and such a good arm. Benny or Andrew if you will was an excellent LFer for the Red Sox, especially at Fenway was utter crap in CF. Maybe a college CF but that is about where it ended for Benny IMO at least while with the Sox.

 

Story has done well adapting to 2nd base but Story is an outstanding SS. Hard to imagine he would not eventually straighten out his footwork at 2nd well enough to play there. Going from 2nd base to SS is a whole nuther' kettle of fish though. Holt and the kid that played for the Rays for a number of years are the best two baseball Swiss army knives I can think of off the top of my head.

 

 

There are actually quite a few successful Swiss Army knife types in MLB. Our own Kike Hernandez being a prime example. Most are more the Chad Pinder/Joey Wendle type who get maybe 1.5-2.5 fWAR in a good year.

 

One of the more successful one in recent years might actually be Isiah Kiner-Falefa, who, in his brief career has already excelled defensively at 3b (Gold Glove winner), shortstop, and even did a fair job as a catcher.

 

They do serve very useful purposes for small market teas plus those on a budget crunch.

[Bellhorn04]

Excellent article.

 

Unsurprisingly, I think Tomase's article is largely just more speculative hogwash.

[Bellhorn04]

They do serve very useful purposes for small market teas plus those on a budget crunch.

 

Small market teas - sounds like a nice Sunday morning.

[notin]

I think everyone is well aware that JH doesn’t give Bloom much of an allowance, but the same mentioned plan of Booby D, and Casas wasn’t the problem, but it was not fixing it when it didn’t work out.

 

But then comes the obvious questions. How long do you give it to not work out? And what options will be available between then and the end of July?

 

It’s not like some sort of steady stream of first basemen were out looking for work. I’m sure the Sox could have grabbed a few disgruntled Amazon employees and lured them to the clubhouse with promises of restroom breaks. But would this really be any better? And the answer here is never “it would have to be.” As low of a rung as Cordero/Dalbec represent on the MLB ladder, they’re still higher up than many even in AAA can reach…

[notin]

Small market teas - sounds like a nice Sunday morning.

 

Very affordable. But you have to clean house every three years…

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

I'm an uninformed schlub in your eyes because I prefer the Globe to WEEI and NESN. Got it, Nick.

You are an uniformed scrub because you read only the Globe. On sports I read the Globe, Herald, the Athletic, Baseball America and various websites I listen to MLB radio, Mlb TV, Weei (which is the Red Sox flagship radio station) the sports hub as well as ESPN.. NESN of course because they broadcast the games.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

Unsurprisingly, I think Tomase's article is largely just more speculative hogwash.

Anything that deviates from your world view is speculative hogwash.

[Bellhorn04]

You are an uniformed scrub because you read only the Globe. On sports I read the Globe, Herald, the Athletic, Baseball America and various websites I listen to MLB radio, Mlb TV, Weei (which is the Red Sox flagship radio station) the sports hub as well as ESPN.. NESN of course because they broadcast the games.

 

I also have an online subscription to The Athletic. But I am sorry I will never reach your level.

[Bellhorn04]

Anything that deviates from your world view is speculative hogwash.

 

Writers like Tomase are paid to produce speculative hogwash. Nothing really wrong with that.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

I also have an online subscription to The Athletic. But I am sorry I will never reach your level.

That is why you are largely uninformed about the Red Sox

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Meh.

 

 

7. This Sox team is paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M. Their combined WAR for the Sox this year is +0.9. This gets ignored by you and the other Bloom-blamers. Instead, you gripe endlessly about the inadequacies of Story, who is paid $20M for his WAR of +2.1, for which he provides terrific defense @ 2b and is 2d on the team in rbi's despite missing 20 games so far.

 

Thanks for labeling me into a category. But if you actually read posts attributed to individual posters, you'd know that I never ignore the total payroll -- I always acknowledge we're Number Six! But thanks for pointing out again some of the contracts that Bloom had nothing to do with, thus bringing back the focus on the players he actually spent on. I have also acknowledged what I consider Story's Gold Glove defense several times, as I have always been an advocate of defense, above all other assets, for true contenders.

 

Maybe it's not so ludicrous, but only natural, that some fans here, as well as elsewhere, look at the the quality of players on the current Red Sox roster and wonder if Bloom could've spent some of those limited dollars in better places. His defenders argue that his plan was dashed by injuries, while his skeptics wish he could've monitored and adjusted sooner. It's what we do on Talk Sox forum.

[Elktonnick]

The Rays have something we don't and can't match for young players.....Kevin Cash

 

Writers like Tomase are paid to produce speculative hogwash. Nothing really wrong with that.

What he writes may be speculative but then again so is every major league deal ever made. As to being hogwash that is because it deviates from your narrow relatively uninformed world view.

[Old Red]

Unsurprisingly, I think Tomase's article is largely just more speculative hogwash.

 

I have heard from more than one source that Cora, and Bloom have butted heads this year. Would you be happy with Bloom if you were Cora with what Bloom has given you to work with?

[Maxbialystock]

Brisket Gasper described Bloom best yesterday when it came to the trade deadline. Bloom is like a guy who came to a fork in the road (buy, or sell), and couldn’t decide which one to do, so he looked for a 3rd option. In other words not very decisive, and not the kind of guy you would want as your Chief of Baseball Opps running the Red Sox. If the glove fits you must convict.

 

Brisket Gasper? Now that's a name to conjure with.

 

So let's talk about that third option, but maybe put it into context. Last year Bloom brought in Schwarber and Iglesias, who were a big help, and the Sox finished with 92 wins and did really well in the postseason. What did Brisket Gasper say about those moves last year and the ultimate outcome of the 2021 season?

 

So I would argue that Bloom is more than willing to make moves when they will make a difference. Indeed, he has brought in innumerable pitchers because the Sox farm system ain't so good at growing them. Plus, and I love reminding you and others of this, the ones DD bought--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--are being paid $63M this year to deliver a combined pitching WAR of +0.9.

 

Plus this year is different from last year, largely because of injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock, Wacha, and Hill--plus Kike and now Story. Despite the rotation being wiped out--even a healthy Pivetta has struggled recently, so much so that the best pitching WAR belong to Wacha, who has 9 fewer starts than Pivetta--the Sox are still at .500 and 3.5 games out of a wild card slot with exactly one third of the season remaining.

 

So to me--and I am the only guy on this thread who is willing to admit he has zippo GM skills--it kinds of makes sense to be cautious about big trades/moves. And by that I mean both ways because many on this thread wanted to Bloom to get rid of as many players/salaries as possible. What did Ben Franklin say? "Neither a borrower nor a lender be?"

 

This team isn't good enough to justify big moves to increase their chances of getting to the postseason, but also not bad enough to pull the plug. And lurking behind that is the possibility that John Henry might want to keep both Bogey and Devers, but only if they are affordable.

 

Meanwhile, some minor fixes which everyone downplays--Hosmer (good field, so-so hit) at 1b and McGuire to share catching duties with Plawecki. Plus wait for Wacha, Sale, Story, Paxton, Kike, Refsnyder, Strahm, Bello, et al to return from the IL.

 

As moonslav reminds us, the big lost opportunities a week ago were getting something for Eovaldi, JDM, Bogey, et al--who are likely to go elsewhere at the end of this season. My guess is the Sox weren't offered much, so why not use them?

[Maxbialystock]

Brisket Gasper described Bloom best yesterday when it came to the trade deadline. Bloom is like a guy who came to a fork in the road (buy, or sell), and couldn’t decide which one to do, so he looked for a 3rd option. In other words not very decisive, and not the kind of guy you would want as your Chief of Baseball Opps running the Red Sox. If the glove fits you must convict.

 

Brisket Gasper? Now that's a name to conjure with.

 

So let's talk about that third option, but maybe put it into context. Last year Bloom brought in Schwarber and Iglesias, who were a big help, and the Sox finished with 92 wins and did really well in the postseason. What did Brisket Gasper say about those moves last year and the ultimate outcome of the 2021 season?

 

So I would argue that Bloom is more than willing to make moves when they will make a difference. Indeed, he has brought in innumerable pitchers because the Sox farm system ain't so good at growing them. Plus, and I love reminding you and others of this, the ones DD bought--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--are being paid $63M this year to deliver a combined pitching WAR of +0.9.

 

Plus this year is different from last year, largely because of injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock, Wacha, and Hill--plus Kike and now Story. Despite the rotation being wiped out--even a healthy Pivetta has struggled recently, so much so that the best pitching WAR belong to Wacha, who has 9 fewer starts than Pivetta--the Sox are still at .500 and 3.5 games out of a wild card slot with exactly one third of the season remaining.

 

So to me--and I am the only guy on this thread who is willing to admit he has zippo GM skills--it kinds of makes sense to be cautious about big trades/moves. And by that I mean both ways because many on this thread wanted to Bloom to get rid of as many players/salaries as possible.

 

This team isn't good enough to justify big moves to increase their chances of getting to the postseason, but also not bad enough to pull the plug. And lurking behind that is the possibility that John Henry might want to keep both Bogey and Devers, but only if they are affordable.

 

Meanwhile, some minor fixes which everyone downplays--Hosmer (good field, so-so hit) at 1b and McGuire to share catching duties with Plawecki. Plus wait for Wacha, Sale, Story, Paxton, Kike, Refsnyder, Strahm, Bello, et al to return from the IL.

 

As moonslav reminds us, the big lost opportunities a week ago were getting something for Eovaldi, JDM, Bogey, et al--who are likely to go elsewhere at the end of this season. My guess is the Sox weren't offered much, so why not use them?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I think Dalbec will still start against lefties, and get some other AB's at third and DH.

 

 

The only way I see Dalbec playing 1st is if Hosmer is on a scheduled rest day or if he's DH'ing.

[Bellhorn04]

I have heard from more than one source that Cora, and Bloom have butted heads this year. Would you be happy with Bloom if you were Cora with what Bloom has given you to work with?

 

I don't think Cora is going anywhere unless he's fired. He makes a nice salary, I'm sure. And Tomase is wrong in his thinking that this team is in rebuild mode until 2025 or whatever.

[moonslav59]

I also wonder why Bloom seems to gravitate to flexibility with many of his position players. They may be flexible but often are not as good as dedicated players at any one position. It does help when the inevitable injuries occur, but how many of those players does a team need? Perhaps Bloom went in that direction since he had to reset the budget and could get those guys more inexpensively.

 

What bothers me about Bloom's selections more than flexibility is what appears to be a lack of a coherent strategy of improving the team. He has stated that he wanted to make the team consistently competitive and part of the strategy was to strengthen the farm. If we look at what other teams have done, we appear to be less competitive now than last year and while the farm is said to be higher rated, we have only one position player that may contribute to the team in 2023. We are carrying JDM and Eovaldi, who don't seem to be in the plans going forward and we traded away Vazquez for prospects of questionable value. Our farm has yielded some pitching prospects under Bloom so it's a mixed bag.

 

Looking at the Renfro trade for JBJ also didn't seem to fit the plan of making us consistently competitive in the league as we got less competitive as a result. So, If I read his signals correctly, Bloom will try to keep Bogey and Devers under contract on a more long term view while using money freed up for 2023 to sign some younger but high quality FA's. Hosmer and Story will stay and perhaps Verdugo and Arroyo. We have some decent pitching but will need at least one starter and as always BP help. Judging by us being the last place team in the AL East, it appears that there is too much for Bloom to do to bring the team up to parity with league powers in one year. Let's hope he has a coherent plan moving forward, that he makes wise choices and he sticks to the plan. The Vazquez and Renfro deals have shaken my confidence that he can and will do those things.

 

Depending on how you value talent, Bloom started out with a 40 man roster having 18-22 serious holes in it, along with a farm that appeared to be very weak, especially on the ML ready area. He was then asked to make a serious cut in the budget while trying to plug 22 holes and build the farm up at the same time. His strategy was forced upon him: try and acquire as many potential gems in the rough as possible, or better known as throw everything against the wall and see what sticks. Just because that strategy is, in some ways, "the Rays way," doesn't mean Bloom chose that strategy. He was likely hired because he had experience with that strategy.

 

All-in-all, he did a pretty good job building up the 40 and farm during and after the 2020 season, but again, he was given a highly restricted winter spending budget before the 2021 season. Luckily, the farm he was handed turned out to be slightly better than expected and guys like Houck and Dalbec contributed to the 2021 success. His Pivetts and Whitlock additions, along with FAs like Kike also were keys to the 2021 season.

 

Now, the next winter arrives, and it seems like Bloom's hands are tied, again, but suddenly the Story signing comes out of nowhere. Call it a failure or near failure, if you must, but it was his first and only major FA signing. With the success rate of major signings being about 50%, league wide, I'm not sure Bloom deserves to be bashed for not being at 100% success in major signings (1 for 1). He still had a restricted budget. Yes, he could have not signed Story and spread the wealth around more, but then he'd have been accused of using small market strategies on a big market team. It's still an area worthy of criticism, as was the JBJ deal that further restricted spending elsewhere. No doubt, Bloom made some poor choices, but to me, that should have been expected, when you have to try and make many "under-the-radar" type deals to fill in so many weak slots on your roster. I can't expect a GM to be even 50 or 67% successful when being forced to use a low cost strategy.

 

Whitlock, Kike, Pivetta, Arroyo and others worked out pretty well in 2021. Many did not, led by Marwin and Andriese. Richards, Perez and Ottavino were rather meh.

 

Wacha, Strahm, Hill probably earned their 2022 salaries but could be called meh. Schreiber and refsnyder exceeded expectations, but are the types of guys Bloom had to count on to fill out the roster, due to finances. Diekman and Barnes were failures. IMO, the jury is still out on Story, but so far his 2022 contribution is clearly lacking.

 

I do think he has a plan. The plan is not based on hoping for miracles. It is based on a consistent improvement of the 40 man roster and farm. I think the plan also involved not adding prime players on long deals, until we felt like we were close enough to being highly competitive to make it worth it. I know this part hurts fan excitement and viewership, but the idea was to keep us relevant enough, until the time came to "pounce" and maybe go all in or in enough with sacrificing the future like the DD plan did.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion and perception of what Bloom's plan is, and I could be totally wrong or partially wrong, but it looks that way to me. IMO, the big question is about 2023. Do Henry and Bloom think this is the time to "pounce" or partially pounce?

 

It's Devers' last year of control, so it's hard to imagine our chances being better in 2024 without Devers or by paying him $30M a year and having less to spend elsewhere. I'm hoping they view this coming winter as the time to go large, without sacrificing too much or the farm. I think that's Henry and Bloom's plan, but maybe 2024 and beyond is a higher priority. The thing is, if 2024>> is the major plan, signing a couple studs, this winter can still be a big part of that timeframe, too.

 

[Bellhorn04]

The only way I see Dalbec playing 1st is if Hosmer is on a scheduled rest day or if he's DH'ing.

 

Career against lefties:

 

Dalbec .853

Hosmer .668

 

And we know Cora likes his platoons.

 

Just watch and see!

[moonslav59]

I don't know, cp, most of the posters here now seem to agree that the Sale extension was a massive blunder.

 

And I've been one of the few who has tried to defend DD on that one.

 

I defended it at the time, saying he got the money he deserved for 4 healthy years on a 5 year deal.

 

The deal sucks, now.

 

I know many felt it sucked at the time, and they were right. I and others were wrong.

 

I don't see anybody saying it was a good deal, in hindsight.

 

I see Bloom being bashed for trying to construct a roster based on serious financial obstacles, such as Sale's deal, Price's commitments, and underformancs by other highly paid players like Nate, JD and to some extent Bogey's lack of run production.

 

Sure, Story, Kike, Diekman and recently Wacha, Hill, Strahm and others have underperformed, too, but at much lower cost and much better WAR per dollar spent ratios than the DD players.