Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Point being that suspects on any list are a dime a dozen top ten, or not. I’m not much for minor league rankings.

 

It's easy to get this way when the farm gets so depleted it produces on Houck in 5 years.

 

(Yes, I went there, again.)

 

Here's the top 10, when the farm was good:

 

2004: Lester, Youkilis, HRan, Shoppach, Papelbon, David Murphy, B Moss, Pedey, Abe Alvarez

 

2007: Buchholz, Ellsbury, Pedey, Bard, Masterson, Moss, Lowrie, Bowden, Lars Anderson, Kottarus

 

2013: Bogey, JBJ, Barnes, Iggy, Betts, Webster, Owens, Ranaudo, Cecchini, Swihart

 

2016: Moncada, Devers, Beni, Espinoza, Kopech, Groome, Dubon, B Johnson, Chavis, S Travis

 

I think we all thought differently about our top 10, back then.

 

[moonslav59]

Wow! Worrying about Bloom getting blamed for something. How cute!

 

Nobody is worrying about that.

[cp176]

Actually I’m the one saying he’ll do the smart thing and complete the trade. And I will pick on whatever baseball personality I want to regardless of whether or not you approve…

 

notin - really - you know you want my approval.

[mvp 78]

I never said Song wasn’t a suspect, but I’ll go with him.

 

You prefer SUSPECTS that haven't even thrown off a mound in 3 years?

[Old Red]

You prefer SUSPECTS that haven't even thrown off a mound in 3 years?

 

Only because he’s a Navy guy yes! Otherwise than that I could give a rat’s ass who’s on the tail end of the 40 man roster, or who’s the 26th man for that matter.

[Hugh2]

Only because he’s a Navy guy yes! Otherwise than that I could give a rat’s ass who’s on the tail end of the 40 man roster, or who’s the 26th man for that matter.

 

But.....this is baseball not war.

[moonslav59]

But.....this is baseball not war.

 

I thought he was anti-fWAR and bWAR!!!

[Hugh2]

I thought he was anti-fWAR and bWAR!!!

 

Maybe he is really into the brand new NWar stat.

[Hugh2]

I think what most people fail to understand is that Philly took him likely under the assumption he wasn't going to be cleared to play. Because he could have stayed on the military list, now they HAVE to carry him. They can not option him this year unless the Sox trade him. Their only other option would be to put him on the 90-day DL. Which, aside from a legit injury would be a huge violation.

 

People like Song don't get picked for a reason, this is rather unprecedented and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. There are so many many many moves to be un-happy with over the last few years. Not protecting Song can not reasonably be included in that list.

[Old Red]

I thought he was anti-fWAR and bWAR!!!

 

Wrong once again! I don’t even know what those two are, and nor do I NEED to, or want to. Go back to worrying if Bloom will be blamed if Song turns out to be a good ML pitcher.

[moonslav59]

Wrong once again! I don’t even know what those two are, and nor do I NEED to, or want to. Go back to worrying if Bloom will be blamed if Song turns out to be a good ML pitcher.

 

More lies.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are so many many many moves to be un-happy with over the last few years. Not protecting Song can not reasonably be included in that list.

 

As a fan of a last-place team with crappy pitching that espouses building for the future -- and then loses young pitching to other teams -- it's unreasonable to be concerned?

[moonslav59]

I think what most people fail to understand is that Philly took him likely under the assumption he wasn't going to be cleared to play. Because he could have stayed on the military list, now they HAVE to carry him. They can not option him this year unless the Sox trade him. Their only other option would be to put him on the 90-day DL. Which, aside from a legit injury would be a huge violation.

 

People like Song don't get picked for a reason, this is rather unprecedented and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. There are so many many many moves to be un-happy with over the last few years. Not protecting Song can not reasonably be included in that list.

 

Somehow, foreseeing unprecedented selections was supposed to have occured.

[Old Red]

More lies.

 

You are the #1 worrier in Red Sox Nation if Bloom is going to be blamed for something. At least you are good at one thing.

[Old Red]

As a fan of a last-place team with crappy pitching that espouses building for the future -- and then loses young pitching to other teams -- it's unreasonable to be concerned?

 

Only if Bloom will get blamed apparently.

[mvp 78]

Wrong once again! I don’t even know what those two are, and nor do I NEED to, or want to. Go back to worrying if Bloom will be blamed if Song turns out to be a good ML pitcher.

 

I don't care if Bloom gets blame for this move or not. I think he should get blame for the Ward move and I have said as much over and over and over.

 

Song is a great unknown. We have no idea what he will look like at Opening Day. The Phillies should try to stash him on the roster, but I'm not sure if it's the best use of their roster if they are really trying to win a WS this year. Should the Red Sox have tried to stash him? IDK. If they had stashed him, but still let Ward go, there'd be a certain segment that would have lost their minds over keeping Song over Ward.

 

It's just going to come down to what happens with Song's career over the next 2-4 years. Maybe the Phillies stash him and he has a 6.50 ERA and throws 92 with weak secondary stuff? Does that mean Bloom made the right call? No, because the Phillies would still have 3 more option years to groom him in 2024-26 and see if they can turn it around. It's going to be a decision that will take a long time to hash out, unless he just gets flat out returned.

[Hugh2]

As a fan of a last-place team with crappy pitching that espouses building for the future -- and then loses young pitching to other teams -- it's unreasonable to be concerned?

 

In this particular instance....yes. Very.

[Hugh2]

I don't care if Bloom gets blame for this move or not. I think he should get blame for the Ward move and I have said as much over and over and over.

 

Song is a great unknown. We have no idea what he will look like at Opening Day. The Phillies should try to stash him on the roster, but I'm not sure if it's the best use of their roster if they are really trying to win a WS this year. Should the Red Sox have tried to stash him? IDK. If they had stashed him, but still let Ward go, there'd be a certain segment that would have lost their minds over keeping Song over Ward.

 

It's just going to come down to what happens with Song's career over the next 2-4 years. Maybe the Phillies stash him and he has a 6.50 ERA and throws 92 with weak secondary stuff? Does that mean Bloom made the right call? No, because the Phillies would still have 3 more option years to groom him in 2024-26 and see if they can turn it around. It's going to be a decision that will take a long time to hash out, unless he just gets flat out returned.

 

We are expecting a kid, who hasn't pitched in 4 years, barely above rookie ball, to come up to the majors and pitch better than 99.99999% of the people in this world at the MLB level.

 

People have said this type of move is unprecedented by Philly, because it was. No GM in baseball would have protected Song, getting upset over this is just pointless. If he ends up being good then that Sux for the Sox but you can't blame this one on them. He probably gets returned. Philly wants to compete and not burn a spot and they likley planned on being able to carry him on the military list this year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

In this particular instance....yes. Very.

 

Guess we have some unreasonable fans on the forum. The rest of Red Sox Nation must just care about protecting replacement players who won't even last the year on the back end of the 40.

[mvp 78]

We are expecting a kid, who hasn't pitched in 4 years, barely above rookie ball, to come up to the majors and pitch better than 99.99999% of the people in this world at the MLB level.

 

People have said this type of move is unprecedented by Philly, because it was. No GM in baseball would have protected Song, getting upset over this is just pointless. If he ends up being good then that Sux for the Sox but you can't blame this one on them. He probably gets returned. Philly wants to compete and not burn a spot and they likley planned on being able to carry him on the military list this year.

 

You certainly CAN blame Bloom for not protecting Song. He weighed the risks and figured the other GM's would see it the same way. If this took Bloom completely by surprise, then you REALLY need to blame him.

[mvp 78]

Guess we have some unreasonable fans on the forum. The rest of Red Sox Nation must just care about protecting replacement players who won't even last the year on the back end of the 40.

 

The vast majority of us on here have questioned why players like Ort and Brasier have been retained. When have debated the reasoning behind it. We'll see if it works out in Bloom's favor. His track record shows that there will be a few missteps each season, but that's not really unique to him.

 

However, prior to the Rule 5 draft, I don't remember one f***ing poster on here saying "WHY DIDN'T WE PROTECT NOAH SONG?"

[moonslav59]

The vast majority of us on here have questioned why players like Ort and Brasier have been retained. When have debated the reasoning behind it. We'll see if it works out in Bloom's favor. His track record shows that there will be a few missteps each season, but that's not really unique to him.

 

However, prior to the Rule 5 draft, I don't remember one f***ing poster on here saying "WHY DIDN'T WE PROTECT NOAH SONG?"

 

Exactly, and article after article, even ones that listed 6-8 borderline prospects never mentioned his name.

 

Yet, they persist.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If this took Bloom completely by surprise, then you REALLY need to blame him.

 

This is entirely the point. All those advanced college degrees in that office, and nobody knew what apparently Dombrowski did?

 

And my point has always been it's reasonable to question losing any young pitchers for this franchise and its constantly stated goal of looking ahead.

 

I'm happy and surprised someone decided to sign Devers, and intrigued to see which of Ward, Song or Politi winds up back in Boston's system. But if Braiser and Ort become the Beastie Boys and close out the World Series, I'll start an Extend Bloom thread.

[Hugh2]

Guess we have some unreasonable fans on the forum. The rest of Red Sox Nation must just care about protecting replacement players who won't even last the year on the back end of the 40.

 

Ok, but remember what happened is unprecedented. No GM would have protected Song, people who fit his profile don't get picked. Can you think of one guy who has only pitched 17 innings in A ball above rookie ball and hasn't pitched 4 years that has been picked up in a rule 5? It just doesn't happen.

 

Protecting replacement players doesn't matter here because we are talking about the type of guy who doesn't get picked, wheres a replacement-level player is going to add more value than a kid who could get shelled at the MLB level. Teams don't protect guys like Song.

 

This doesn't mean pitching isn't a concern, the Sox ability to draft and develop pitching has been lackluster, or it would be disheartening if the Song move worked out for Philly. Those things aren't mutually exclusive from the fact that not protecting Song made sense. Getting upset over Song being picked because of other deficiencies within the Sox system is unreasonable in my opinion and it appears the pundits who all wrote about it agree as well.

[Hugh2]

The vast majority of us on here have questioned why players like Ort and Brasier have been retained. When have debated the reasoning behind it. We'll see if it works out in Bloom's favor. His track record shows that there will be a few missteps each season, but that's not really unique to him.

 

However, prior to the Rule 5 draft, I don't remember one f***ing poster on here saying "WHY DIDN'T WE PROTECT NOAH SONG?"

 

Exactly, I think many of the 40 man decisions this off season were huge head-scratchers. But not leaving Song unprotected.

[Hugh2]

Exactly, and article after article, even ones that listed 6-8 borderline prospects never mentioned his name.

 

Yet, they persist.

 

I think if someone wants to criticize this move they should have been advocating for his protection before hand. Nobody was....not even sportswriters. No one.

[Hugh2]

You certainly CAN blame Bloom for not protecting Song. He weighed the risks and figured the other GM's would see it the same way. If this took Bloom completely by surprise, then you REALLY need to blame him.

 

I disagree, you can't make roster decisions and burn a 40 man spot because a guy might be taken who fits a profile of a guy who has NEVER been taken before. This just doesn't make sense.

[mvp 78]

This is entirely the point. All those advanced college degrees in that office, and nobody knew what apparently Dombrowski did?

 

And my point has always been it's reasonable to question losing any young pitchers for this franchise and its constantly stated goal of looking ahead.

 

I'm happy and surprised someone decided to sign Devers, and intrigued to see which of Ward, Song or Politi winds up back in Boston's system. But if Braiser and Ort become the Beastie Boys and close out the World Series, I'll start an Extend Bloom thread.

 

Is that the case though? Have they confirmed that they were surprised that Song could have been taken? Or is that just speculation?

[moonslav59]

Ok, but remember what happened is unprecedented. No GM would have protected Song, people who fit his profile don't get picked. Can you think of one guy who has only pitched 17 innings in A ball above rookie ball and hasn't pitched 4 years that has been picked up in a rule 5? It just doesn't happen.

 

Protecting replacement players doesn't matter here because we are talking about the type of guy who doesn't get picked, wheres a replacement-level player is going to add more value than a kid who could get shelled at the MLB level. Teams don't protect guys like Song.

 

This doesn't mean pitching isn't a concern, the Sox ability to draft and develop pitching has been lackluster, or it would be disheartening if the Song move worked out for Philly. Those things aren't mutually exclusive from the fact that not protecting Song made sense. Getting upset over Song being picked because of other deficiencies within the Sox system is unreasonable in my opinion and it appears the pundits who all wrote about it agree as well.

 

Totally correct.

[notin]

We are expecting a kid, who hasn't pitched in 4 years, barely above rookie ball, to come up to the majors and pitch better than 99.99999% of the people in this world at the MLB level.

 

People have said this type of move is unprecedented by Philly, because it was. No GM in baseball would have protected Song, getting upset over this is just pointless. If he ends up being good then that Sux for the Sox but you can't blame this one on them. He probably gets returned. Philly wants to compete and not burn a spot and they likley planned on being able to carry him on the military list this year.

 

Question maybe nobody knows.

 

Players on the Military List do accrue service time. They do. So if Song spent 2023 as an inactive member of the ML, his Rule 5 status starts next year, but would he be one year closer to arbitration eligibility?

 

Probably a moot question, because had Song not been granted permission to play this year, Philly probably returns him to Boston same day and tries again next year…