Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

IMO, we should have protected Ward, but I do think they knew more about him that I do, so I'll wait before calling it a screw up.

 

I surely would have protected Ward and Politi over Song, knowing what I knew then.

 

Ward's stuff was down in the AFL and there was an injury that forced him to leave the AFL early.

 

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. – Thaddeus Ward will remember his Nationals spring training debut for the scoreless inning he posted, for the changeup he misfired to the backstop and for the news he got afterward: He might need to change his delivery, because his current one might qualify as a balk.

 

Ward, the top pick in December’s Rule 5 draft, pitched a scoreless bottom of the fifth against the Cardinals, though it included a walk and a wild pitch that came nowhere close to the plate. But the most notable development of his appearance might have been the news he got after he returned to the dugout about his delivery.

 

When pitching from the stretch, Ward brings his hands together at the waist for a split-second, then does it again before coming to a complete stop. It was no problem for him last year in the minor leagues with the Red Sox, but Major League Baseball is cracking down on those kinds of moves this year.

 

“They came up to me after the inning ended and told me about it, that the umpires were discussing it,” the right-hander said.

 

Ward said he began incorporating that double move when he was recovering from Tommy John surgery. It helped remind him to use his legs more, pushing off the rubber. It’s become a subconscious part of his mechanics.

 

The pertinent question is: Does Ward come to a complete stop, then reset his hands before coming to another stop pre-pitch? That would be a balk. He and the Nationals think he never truly comes to a full stop on the first set, so the club called the league after the game to inquire.

 

“They don’t think, because he never comes to a complete stop when he does it, they don’t think it’s a balk,” manager Davey Martinez said. “But they want to make sure they see it, and then they’ll get back to us. If there’s nothing wrong that he’s doing, we don’t want him to change. But we definitely have to tell him, just in case he has to get rid of it.”

 

Ward insists it’s not a big deal if he has to make the change.

 

“If I don’t ever stop when I go down into that squat, then I’m not coming set twice,” he said. “However, that’s not something I want to deal with. I don’t want there to even be a chance to get called for a balk on it, ’cause that’s just a dumb balk. It’s probably going to be something I have to get rid of. It’s not that big an adjustment. I’m not going to be losing sleep over it.”

[Old Red]

All we really need is a fun GM.

 

No! All we really need is a competent one.

[mvp 78]

No! All we really need is a competent one.

 

We had one in Theo, but they let him leave...

[Old Red]

We had one in Theo, but they let him leave...

 

Larry made him leave.

[Bellhorn04]

What is not unique is the general sense that no GMs take players who are not ML or near ML ready. In no sense, was Song either. He is so far away from ML ready that guys like Wikelman and Paulino, as well as actual considered players like Wallace, Scott and Koss (AAA type players) looked like better "traditional" choices, last December.

 

You're going to have a hard time convincing me Song isn't a completely unique case. A highly regarded prospect whose one and only issue is his military service.

 

I think the Red Sox got screwed by Rule 5 here. There should have been some sort of exemption. But that's all beside the point now.

[moonslav59]

Bloom was handed a winning team 4 years running, and a WS win a year before. DD wasn’t fired, because he was bad at his job, but because of a falling out with JH. Bloom will be fired, because he was bad at his job. The impossible situation Bloom was handed is just a theory of yours that you have spewed since Bloom was hired.

 

It was not theory. It was fact. The budget was slashed $60M. No farm help. Demand trades.

 

If you think those facts are theory, who is spewing, here? (Hint: not me.)

[moonslav59]

You're going to have a hard time convincing me Song isn't a completely unique case. A highly regarded prospect whose one and only issue is his military service.

 

I think the Red Sox got screwed by Rule 5 here. There should have been some sort of exemption. But that's all beside the point now.

 

The issue was two-part- both related to military status:

 

1. He was ineligible with no known timetable for becoming eligible, which is unlike drug suspensions or waiting for a player's posting rights to occur.

 

2. He did not pitch for 3 years. Name any player drafted, signed as an IFA, selected in Rule 5 or traded for that did not play for 3 years. Maybe there is a name out there, but this was a highly unique situation.

 

[Old Red]

You're going to have a hard time convincing me Song isn't a completely unique case. A highly regarded prospect whose one and only issue is his military service.

 

I think the Red Sox got screwed by Rule 5 here. There should have been some sort of exemption. But that's all beside the point now.

 

I don’t think the Red Sox got screwed in anyway here. They knew when they drafted Song it could be a long process to get Song on the mound in a Red Sox uniform. The rules are the rules. Now if you want to change the rules for military personnel going forward that’s fine. The Red Sox just didn’t want to take the process to the end to see if they had anything good, or not.

[mvp 78]

You're going to have a hard time convincing me Song isn't a completely unique case. A highly regarded prospect whose one and only issue is his military service.

 

I think the Red Sox got screwed by Rule 5 here. There should have been some sort of exemption. But that's all beside the point now.

 

Henry helped write the CBA. He could have had the rules adjust to his benefit.

[Old Red]

It was not theory. It was fact. The budget was slashed $60M. No farm help. Demand trades.

 

If you think those facts are theory, who is spewing, here? (Hint: not me.)

You write the story to fit your narrative, but just not everyone shares your narrative, which isn’t surprising at all.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox just didn’t want to take the process to the end to see if they had anything good, or not.

 

The Sox felt like they were "taking it to the end."

 

They were waiting for his eligibility to occur, and then they'd make the choice to protect or not.

 

Had he not been selected, he'd have pitched in the minors long enough for us to get a feel on protecting him or not.

 

Had he been selected and not become eligible, which I think Philly might have hoped would happen until winter ball, he might have been returned. (He may still end up being returned.)

[mvp 78]

The issue was two-part- both related to military status:

 

1. He was ineligible with no known timetable for becoming eligible, which is unlike drug suspensions or waiting for a player's posting rights to occur.

 

2. He did not pitch for 3 years. Name any player drafted, signed as an IFA, selected in Rule 5 or traded for that did not play for 3 years. Maybe there is a name out there, but this was a highly unique situation.

 

 

Russell Wilson

[Old Red]

The issue was two-part- both related to military status:

 

1. He was ineligible with no known timetable for becoming eligible, which is unlike drug suspensions or waiting for a player's posting rights to occur.

 

2. He did not pitch for 3 years. Name any player drafted, signed as an IFA, selected in Rule 5 or traded for that did not play for 3 years. Maybe there is a name out there, but this was a highly unique situation.

 

 

Did Song forget how to pitch, or something?

[moonslav59]

You write the story to fit your narrative, but just not everyone shares your narrative, which isn’t surprising at all.

 

How are facts a story?

 

Is anything I said untrue? I don't lie like... (I won't go there.)

[moonslav59]

Did Song forget how to pitch, or something?

 

Not sure what that has to do with my question.

 

Can you name one person acquired after 3 years of no action?

 

Maybe there is some injured player that missed 3 years, but showed he still had skills in workouts or winter ball or something.

 

All I'm saying is this was an extremely unique situation that is only being discussed, because a GM did something nobody else ever did, AND Song magically became eligible a couple months later.

 

Call it a mistake, if you wish. I get why you and others feel that way.

 

That doesn't change the fact that I think that opinion is absurd. (You obviously feel like many of my opinions are absurd, too.)

[Old Red]

How are facts a story?

 

Is anything I said untrue? I don't lie like... (I won't go there.)

 

Bottom line is Bloom hasn’t done a good job, and the WL bears that out, and has made many blunders along the way tough job, or not. Like I have said many times the only way to silence the critics is for the Red Sox to get better in the WL column, and into the postseason. Anything less is a failure tough job, or not.

[moonslav59]

Russell Wilson

 

I was thinking Michael Jordan, but Wilson?

[moonslav59]

Bottom line is Bloom hasn’t done a good job, and the WL bears that out, and has made many blunders along the way tough job, or not. Like I have said many times the only way to silence the critics is for the Red Sox to get better in the WL column, and into the postseason. Anything less is a failure tough job, or not.

 

Now, that's a story.

[Old Red]

Not sure what that has to do with my question.

 

Can you name one person acquired after 3 years of no action?

 

Maybe there is some injured player that missed 3 years, but showed he still had skills in workouts or winter ball or something.

 

All I'm saying is this was an extremely unique situation that is only being discussed, because a GM did something nobody else ever did, AND Song magically became eligible a couple months later.

 

Call it a mistake, if you wish. I get why you and others feel that way.

 

That doesn't change the fact that I think that opinion is absurd. (You obviously feel like many of my opinions are absurd, too.)

It has everything to do with your question. Just, because Song hasn’t pitched in three years doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how, or can’t now. Like others have said this is in the vast unknown category, and I’m anxious to see how it turns out. Suspect to prospect to Big leaguer, or suspect to reject.

[Old Red]

Now, that's a story.

 

A story that lots have run with though.

[moonslav59]

A story that lots have run with though.

 

Many stories are retold and retold.

[Old Red]

Many stories are retold and retold.

 

I’ve heard a lot more fans go with that story than your repeated version. I wonder why that is? Must be a better subscription, and circulation.

[Bellhorn04]

The issue was two-part- both related to military status:

 

1. He was ineligible with no known timetable for becoming eligible, which is unlike drug suspensions or waiting for a player's posting rights to occur.

 

2. He did not pitch for 3 years. Name any player drafted, signed as an IFA, selected in Rule 5 or traded for that did not play for 3 years. Maybe there is a name out there, but this was a highly unique situation.

 

 

That's exactly what I keep saying.

[Old Red]

That's exactly what I keep saying.

 

I just think it’s will be interesting how this will all turn out, and who will benefit if it turns out to be a success story.

[moonslav59]

It has everything to do with your question. Just, because Song hasn’t pitched in three years doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how, or can’t now. Like others have said this is in the vast unknown category, and I’m anxious to see how it turns out. Suspect to prospect to Big leaguer, or suspect to reject.

 

I never said he's forgotten how to pitch or can't possible become a good pitcher with a few months.

 

My point was precisely about how unique his situation was and that players who are not deemed to be ML or near ML ready are just not taken in Rule 5. That in no way implies he "doesn't know how or can't now."

 

Asking for an example is not saying none exist or that it's impossible for Song to do well. I'm not even coming close to that debate.

 

My point was about where everyone, but apparently DD, was at, last November and December. There is just no way anyone felt he would or would even be considered for selection. To me, that is a given. I don't expect everyone to agree, but if you believe that it was a given, then, it is hard to now say a mistake was made in not protecting him. You don't have to agree, but surely you can understand that train of thought, and BTW, it's a story "that lots have run with."

[moonslav59]

I’ve heard a lot more fans go with that story than your repeated version.

 

Again, you confuse majority opinion or perceived majority opinion with truth or correctness.

[Old Red]

Again, you confuse majority opinion or perceived majority opinion with truth or correctness.

 

Not always, so it’s a case by case basis, but for this case I think it’s correct.

[Old Red]

I never said he's forgotten how to pitch or can't possible become a good pitcher with a few months.

 

My point was precisely about how unique his situation was and that players who are not deemed to be ML or near ML ready are just not taken in Rule 5. That in no way implies he "doesn't know how or can't now."

 

Asking for an example is not saying none exist or that it's impossible for Song to do well. I'm not even coming close to that debate.

 

My point was about where everyone, but apparently DD, was at, last November and December. There is just no way anyone felt he would or would even be considered for selection. To me, that is a given. I don't expect everyone to agree, but if you believe that it was a given, then, it is hard to now say a mistake was made in not protecting him. You don't have to agree, but surely you can understand that train of thought, and BTW, it's a story "that lots have run with."

 

Yes a good story it is, and I’m excited to see how it turns out.

[moonslav59]

That's exactly what I keep saying.

 

It is for those reasons, people saw Noah Song's name on the Rule 5 list, and never even stopped to give him even a smidgeon of thought, other than thoughts unrelated to the question of protecting him or not.

 

If a GM protected every skilled player who had a legitimate shot at making the bigs, someday, the 40 man roster might have 10 guys in single A or looking to get to AA, that year.

 

Hell, many guys we left unprotected, and who were not selected were invited to ST'ing, something Song would not have been invited to, had he not been selected and made eligible, this winter.

 

Here was the Rule 5 list:

 

Enmanuel Valdez (Minor League FA- was added before Rule 5.)

 

Wilyer Abreu

Dan Altavilla

Angel Bastardo

Brock Bell

Royman Blanco

Brainer Bonaci

Zach Bryant

Cameron Cannon

Brendan Cellucci

Felix Cepeda

Kole Cottam

Wil Dalton

Joe Davis

Osvaldo De La Rosa

Luis De La Rosa

Tyler Dearden

Nick Decker

Jonathan Diaz

Alex Erro

Tyler Esplin

Albert Feliz

Durbin Feltman

Ryan Fernandez

Ryan Fitzgerald

Feleipe Franks

Grant Gambrell

Rio Gomez

Wikelman Gonzalez

Bryan Gonzalez

Devlin Granberg

David Hamilton

Gabriel Jackson

Axel James

Gilberto Jimenez

Christian Koss

Austin Lambright

Dominic LoBrutto

Eduardo Lopez

Bryan Lucas

Naysbel Marcano

Elih Marrero

Chris Murphy

Brendan Nail

Andres Ortuno

Yusniel Padron-Artiles

Eddinson Paulino

Aaron Perry

AJ Politi

Ceddanne Rafaela

Jose Ramirez

Oscar Rangel

Tyreque Reed

Carlos Reyes

Jorge Rodriguez

Giancarlos Santana

Victor Santos

Stephen Scott

Cody Scroggins

Chase Shugart

Nick Sogard

Noah Song

Dylan Spacke

Luis Talavera

Jake Thompson

Freddy Valdez

Michael Valera

Eduardo Vaughan

Jacob Wallace

Brandon Walter

Thaddeus Ward

Alex Zapete

Ryan Zeferjahn

 

There are 10 guys on this list, not protected or selected that are closer to ML ready than Song likely is.

 

Some are very skilled and will likely be protected, next year, but since the chances of them being taken this year were about as close to zero as zero itself, they were left unprotected- like every GM does, every year.

[moonslav59]

Not always, so it’s a case by case basis, but for this case I think it’s correct.

 

So, when the majority or perceived majority agrees with you, it has more meaning.

 

Got it.