Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

No, the whole season can't be blamed on injuries. Much of it does have to do with strength of schedule. But if the Sox were healthy, even playing against the stronger teams, do you think they'd have a winning percentage of .269 in the month of July? That is worse than a team of replacement players would theoretically play.

 

How many outfield fly balls weren’t caught, or even touched, and the same for infield pop ups? Little league ball at its best. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a Major League club having such difficulties doing such a normal function of the game.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

I most definitely would.

 

Why, Why, Why Nancy Kerrigan? I don’t get the trust, and admiration he gets from some on here, and has gotten since his hire.

[Bellhorn04]

Why, Why, Why Nancy Kerrigan? I don’t get the trust, and admiration he gets from some on here, and has gotten since his hire.

 

It's because he represents a philosophy that some folks like. Rebuild the farm, don't get locked into a bunch of albatross contracts etc.

 

It's a philosophy that requires patience.

 

A lot of fans do not have that kind of patience, which I understand. It's no fun being in last place, again.

 

I think 2023 is a huge year for Bloom.

[moonslav59]

I don't think Bloom got lulled into anything. His priority is still long term sustainability. In the meantime, he is putting together contending teams without going "all in". It worked very well last year. This year, not so much. Most of the success, or lack thereof, is related to how healthy the two teams have been.

 

If we were playing at mostly full health, I'm willing to bet we would still be leading the wildcard race. At the very least, we'd be one of the 3 wildcard teams.

 

I am not at all unhappy with what Bloom did this past offseason, outside of not adding another outfielder. That didn't make much sense to me.

 

Well said, and when you cobble a team together to try to be barely competitive as you build farm depth you have to pick and choose what areas to address first , and the team will be highly susceptible to ups and downs and the inability to deal with key injuries.

 

Bloom did not have much to spend on filling all our needs, and certainly not enough to address the 7th, 8th and 9th SPee slots, in case 3-4 starters got hurt at the same time. Blaming him for neglecting certain areas is missing the big picture.

 

Yes, this was the first winter he had the ability to sign a large and long contract player. It seems he whiffed on year one of the deal, but when you can only spend $5 and $7M on SPers you get what you pay for.

[Old Red]

It's because he represents a philosophy that some folks like. Rebuild the farm, don't get locked into a bunch of albatross contracts etc.

 

It's a philosophy that requires patience.

 

A lot of fans do not have that kind of patience, which I understand. It's no fun being in last place, again.

 

I think 2023 is a huge year for Bloom.

I am all for having good farm system. Going back to 1967 to the 2018 team most of the real good Red Sox teams have had plenty of home grown talent on it, so I’m all for that, but my main focus is on the Major League club, and like I have said many times I could care less about the ranking of the farm system, or anyone in it until they put on a Red Sox uniform, and produce, or are trade for someone who does. I could care less about the 40 roster, and I think just the average fan does also. To me a team like the Red Sox in a big market with a $200M+ payroll should not have any fire sales, or bridge years, or anything else you want to call it. You don’t have to win every year, but there shouldn’t be any last place finishes like the Sox have had plenty of to go with their 4 championships.

[Hugh2]

It's because he represents a philosophy that some folks like. Rebuild the farm, don't get locked into a bunch of albatross contracts etc.

 

It's a philosophy that requires patience.

 

A lot of fans do not have that kind of patience, which I understand. It's no fun being in last place, again.

 

I think 2023 is a huge year for Bloom.

 

I think it’s important to put things into perspective as well. This is effectively Blooms 3rd season with the Sox.

 

2020 - he walked into a train wreck, even if they kept Price they were down 3 starting pitchers with no depth. They were also starring down a 1/3 of a season that wasn’t even guaranteed to have a post season so I think all and every GM in baseball would have sold off assets in that position.

 

2021 - the depth he added largely contributed to a team that was two wins away from a WS. We can debate this all day, how much of the team was his and how lucky they were (all valid points) but I’d also like to point out that as the naysayers say he’s the GM and responsible for the product on the field. If that’s true in bad times it’s also true in the good times.

 

2022 - it gets a little hard to defend Bloom here, but people are acting like his entire track record is horrible because if one bad season. The Mookie trade didn’t cause 1/2 the team to underperform and over $100 million per annum in assets to go on the DL. You read that right, the Sox have over $100 million In per annual money sitting on the sidelines right now. The Sox have three rookies in their rotation right now and there best hitter on the DL, add in a power outage from Bogaerts, regression from Dalbec and they’ve dug a hole that would be too big for anyone to overcome. It’s not an excuse, it’s just a reality. Bloom didn’t put Sale and 1/2 the team on the DL.

 

He has more payroll flexibility, and a much deeper farm to pull and trade from heading into 2023, I fully expect this team to recover, and I’d they don’t I might be ready to jump on the fire Bloom bandwagon, but right now it’s premature and IMO very shortsighted. It’s a projection of one’s own despair of their favorite team being bad. It’s what it’s I suppose.

[Hugh2]

If you’re odds of winning the World Series are .1% you at least sell expiring contracts

[notin]

It's because he represents a philosophy that some folks like. Rebuild the farm, don't get locked into a bunch of albatross contracts etc.

 

It's a philosophy that requires patience.

 

A lot of fans do not have that kind of patience, which I understand. It's no fun being in last place, again.

 

I think 2023 is a huge year for Bloom.

 

 

Correct.

 

The philosophy of spend, spend, spend and then fix it by spending more always Always ALWAYS results in situations similar to where the Sox are now. The big contracts to players like Sale, Price, JD, Eovaldi, etc. and subsequent roster maneuvers to make the budget fit are far more responsible for this season than the Renfroe/Bradley trade…

[Old Red]

Correct.

 

The philosophy of spend, spend, spend and then fix it by spending more always Always ALWAYS results in situations similar to where the Sox are now. The big contracts to players like Sale, Price, JD, Eovaldi, etc. and subsequent roster maneuvers to make the budget fit are far more responsible for this season than the Renfroe/Bradley trade…

 

Nothing wrong with the contracts of JD, and Evol. Both have produced in Boston. Price would have never been thought of in Boston if Lester would have been signed like he should have, and Sales signing was one of the dumbest of all time for the Sox to give an extension to someone who was hurt, and TJ on the horizon.

[dgalehouse]

My biggest problem with Bloom is , and has been, the bullpen. You simply cannot overstate the importance of a bullpen in baseball today. One of the main reasons for the improvement of the Orioles has been their bullpen. No big names , but a group of really good lock down relievers. The Red Sox continue to go with a rag tag ,hit or miss bunch. And it shows. Our saves leader has a total of six saves going into August . The runner up has three. The pen has blown leads again and again. I don't know what Bloom' s philosophy for building a bullpen is , but whatever it is , it' s not working . And that needs to be addressed. I actually feel sorry for Cora as he tries to mix and match and try to get some results out of this crew.

[MADSTORK]

I don't think Bloom got lulled into anything. His priority is still long term sustainability. In the meantime, he is putting together contending teams without going "all in". It worked very well last year. This year, not so much. Most of the success, or lack thereof, is related to how healthy the two teams have been.

 

If we were playing at mostly full health, I'm willing to bet we would still be leading the wildcard race. At the very least, we'd be one of the 3 wildcard teams.

 

I am not at all unhappy with what Bloom did this past offseason, outside of not adding another outfielder. That didn't make much sense to me.

 

Is this Bloom ?

[notin]

Nothing wrong with the contracts of JD, and Evol. Both have produced in Boston. Price would have never been thought of in Boston if Lester would have been signed like he should have, and Sales signing was one of the dumbest of all time for the Sox to give an extension to someone who was hurt, and TJ on the horizon.

 

Are both producing now?

 

JD has been OK. Eovaldi has had flashes of disaster.

 

That’s the whole point. Locking up a player for 7 years to get 3 or 4 good years does mean you also pay for the bad ones.

[MADSTORK]

Nothing wrong with the contracts of JD, and Evol. Both have produced in Boston. Price would have never been thought of in Boston if Lester would have been signed like he should have, and Sales signing was one of the dumbest of all time for the Sox to give an extension to someone who was hurt, and TJ on the horizon.

 

Your right about Martinez and NE. With that said Going forward they are not part of the future. Age, injury concerns warrant both being traded by Tuesday

 

If Bloom has any clue both will be gone and continue with the prospect purge.

JD in the lineup today tells me Orlando is still incompetent

[Old Red]

Are both producing now?

 

JD has been OK. Eovaldi has had flashes of disaster.

 

That’s the whole point. Locking up a player for 7 years to get 3 or 4 good years does mean you also pay for the bad ones.

 

That’s the way the game is played. Moon wanted to give Mookie a 14 yr contract. How many of those 14 years do you think he would be worth what he has gotten paid. How many years has Trout been worth it? Judge is going to get a big long term contract, and he won’t be worth it every year, and neither will Soto. Either play the game, or not.

[notin]

My biggest problem with Bloom is , and has been, the bullpen. You simply cannot overstate the importance of a bullpen in baseball today. One of the main reasons for the improvement of the Orioles has been their bullpen. No big names , but a group of really good lock down relievers. The Red Sox continue to go with a rag tag ,hit or miss bunch. And it shows. Our saves leader has a total of six saves going into August . The runner up has three. The pen has blown leads again and again. I don't know what Bloom' s philosophy for building a bullpen is , but whatever it is , it' s not working . And that needs to be addressed. I actually feel sorry for Cora as he tries to mix and match and try to get some results out of this crew.

 

The 2021 bullpen was extremely good lead by Barnes, Ottavino and Whitlock (and eventually Houck) at the back end. Barnes was an All Star until the wheels just fell off. Granted he was having a career year so regression could be expected, but he regressed down to the level of Beer League Benchwarmer.

 

It looked to me like maybe the Sox thought he could bounce back from his 10 inning slump at the end of 2021. And if he did, even to his serviceable less-than-All-Star norms, a bullpen anchored by Barnes, Houck, Whitlock, Taylor (remember him?),Brasier appeared to be the plan and in reality, shouldn’t be that bad. And if things swung right, could be an absolute strength. And that’s before we even mention names like Diekman, Strahm and Davis.

 

The problem was the Sox kept dipping into the bullpen to fill injury voids in the rotation. Not sure if that was Bloom, Cora, or (more likely) both. But all during the shutdown when Sale was not allowed to tell the team he was injured, the bullpen didn’t look as bad on paper until it turned into what was left standing.

[Maxbialystock]

I am all for having good farm system. Going back to 1967 to the 2018 team most of the real good Red Sox teams have had plenty of home grown talent on it, so I’m all for that, but my main focus is on the Major League club, and like I have said many times I could care less about the ranking of the farm system, or anyone in it until they put on a Red Sox uniform, and produce, or are trade for someone who does. I could care less about the 40 roster, and I think just the average fan does also. To me a team like the Red Sox in a big market with a $200M+ payroll should not have any fire sales, or bridge years, or anything else you want to call it. You don’t have to win every year, but there shouldn’t be any last place finishes like the Sox have had plenty of to go with their 4 championships.

 

Oh stop it. Just stop it. In JH's 20 years as owner the Sox have won 4 WS, the most in MLB during that period and three more than the Yankees who have vastly outspent the Sox because they have a much bigger fan base. In between those 4 WS there have been some bad seasons but also some pretty decent ones.

 

For example, last freaking season when the Sox won 92 in the regular season, whipped the Yankees and their very expensive ace in the wild card game, whipped the Rays, who won 100 games, most in the AL, 4 games to 2, and then finally lost to the Astros, 4 games to 2, in the ALCS.

 

You like to come across as a hard-nosed realist, but what your really are is a whiner. FWIW, I don't like this year's Sox either. They are just 2 games below .500, but they are playing really badly. A big part of that is/are the injuries to the rotation, the bullpen, and to Devers, Story, and Kike. But Verdugo, Dalbec, Duran, Cordero, et al, have underperformed at bat, in the field, and running the bases.

[notin]

That’s the way the game is played. Moon wanted to give Mookie a 14 yr contract. How many of those 14 years do you think he would be worth what he has gotten paid. How many years has Trout been worth it? Judge is going to get a big long term contract, and he won’t be worth it every year, and neither will Soto. Either play the game, or not.

 

Maybe there’s a reason moon isn’t the GM. . Either way, Bloom won’t be listening to him.

 

So if 30yo Bogaerts wants an 8 year deal, do you think the Sox should capitulate? He likely won’t be very good in 8 years, and probably less than that. But he will still get his guaranteed money and could become an anchor, like plenty of others.

 

Trout’s deal is looking awful. And going around the league, you can find plenty similar ones. The Angels themselves are facing trading their best player (Ohtani) because they likely can’t afford him while also paying for the immovable contracts if Trout and Rendon.

 

That’s why the Sox desperately need to bulk the farm. There is a reason the Padres can pay for Machado, Tatis, Hosmer, and Darvish and still entertain the ida of dealing for Soto. Their farm fills void after void with minimum wage talent. Some of them (Cronenworth, who joined their minors via trade) contribute at an All Star level, while others (Aguilar, Abrams) barely contribute beyond making no money. But it is a system that works…

[Old Red]

Oh stop it. Just stop it. In JH's 20 years as owner the Sox have won 4 WS, the most in MLB during that period and three more than the Yankees who have vastly outspent the Sox because they have a much bigger fan base. In between those 4 WS there have been some bad seasons but also some pretty decent ones.

 

For example, last freaking season when the Sox won 92 in the regular season, whipped the Yankees and their very expensive ace in the wild card game, whipped the Rays, who won 100 games, most in the AL, 4 games to 2, and then finally lost to the Astros, 4 games to 2, in the ALCS.

 

You like to come across as a hard-nosed realist, but what your really are is a whiner. FWIW, I don't like this year's Sox either. They are just 2 games below .500, but they are playing really badly. A big part of that is/are the injuries to the rotation, the bullpen, and to Devers, Story, and Kike. But Verdugo, Dalbec, Duran, Cordero, et al, have underperformed at bat, in the field, and running the bases.

Sounds like you need the cheese to go with your whine. Yes the Red Sox have won 4 WS under JH ownerships, but have they had just as many last place finishes? The Red Sox come out of the gate 10-19 before the injuries started to hit, and have for the most part only beaten bad teams even when healthy, so what kind of cheese do you like?

[notin]

Sounds like you need the cheese to go with your whine. Yes the Red Sox have won 4 WS under JH ownerships, but have they had just as many last finishes? The Red Sox come out of the gate 10-19 before the injuries started to hit, and have for the most part only beaten bad teams even when healthy, so what kind of cheese do you like?

 

 

Not true.

 

Their $30mill ace pitcher was injured in February and not allowed to tell the team until March. This had a very big impact, as it caused a re-shuffling of the bullpen once the Sox started using Houck and eventually Whitlock in the rotation…

[moonslav59]

Are both producing now?

 

JD has been OK. Eovaldi has had flashes of disaster.

 

That’s the whole point. Locking up a player for 7 years to get 3 or 4 good years does mean you also pay for the bad ones.

 

And Bloom got stuck with the last years- the down years or injury years, yet he gets the blame because they were “good deals?”

[dgalehouse]

I think I am in league with the majority of Red Sox Nation when I say that I want to.see results . Tired of hearing excuses. On here , we have folks who have excuses for everything. The misfortunes that have happened to the Sox , happen to other teams as well. Enough with the excuses. This is a proud , big time franchise. Let's stop with the excuses . Let's see some results. And it starts at the top.

[Old Red]

Not true.

 

Their $30mill ace pitcher was injured in February and not allowed to tell the team until March. This had a very big impact, as it caused a re-shuffling of the bullpen once the Sox started using Houck and eventually Whitlock in the rotation…

Oh please! Blaming the start of the season on Chris Frail. The biggest problem was the Sox didn’t have a closer, and lost all those early games because of it, and that had nothing to do with Frail. Good try! but kind of a weak effort.

[notin]

And Bloom got stuck with the last years- the down years or injury years, yet he gets the blame because they were “good deals?”

 

I’ve seen some defend Sale’s contract despite him only pitching 48 IP in the first 3 seasons…

[Old Red]

I think I am in league with the majority of Red Sox Nation when I say that I want to.see results . Tired of hearing excuses. On here , we have folks who have excuses for everything. The misfortunes that have happened to the Sox , happen to other teams as well. Enough with the excuses. This is a proud , big time franchise. Let's stop with the excuses . Let's see some results. And it starts at the top.

It’s just not Bloom who gets protected on here, but Cora, and JH as well. In the mean time the Red Sox are a 3 ring circus residing in last place, and all the excuses in the world will not change that.

[Old Red]

I think I am in league with the majority of Red Sox Nation when I say that I want to.see results . Tired of hearing excuses. On here , we have folks who have excuses for everything. The misfortunes that have happened to the Sox , happen to other teams as well. Enough with the excuses. This is a proud , big time franchise. Let's stop with the excuses . Let's see some results. And it starts at the top.

 

The amazing part is that the excuse makers on here think they are the ones who are in the majority, and like I’ve said many times this forum is a very small percentage of opinions of what’s out there in the rest of Red Sox Nation.

[Hugh2]

At what point is something excuses or reasons? Which is fair?

 

The Sox have been playing games and fielding teams where they have more guys who started the year in AAA and less guys who are MLBers.

 

All teams deal with injuries, and the better systems have depth, or can trade to fill in the gaps, but almost no one can account for losing as much as the Sox have. Is that Blooms fault? Or JH or Cora’s? IDK, maybe, that’s not what I’m here for. But let’s try to imagine for second this team with a reasonable bill of health right now. That team probably commands the first WC spot right now.

 

Anyones AAA team would get crushed against MLB teams

[Hugh2]

Those are just the facts

[moonslav59]

I’ve seen some defend Sale’s contract despite him only pitching 48 IP in the first 3 seasons…

 

I think the “defense” was based on “at the time” reasoning not in hindsight, I believe.

 

I thought the deal looked like they paid him for 4 years over 5, figuring he’d miss a season.

 

The guy was a top 3 pitcher in MLB for quite some time and was not all that old.

 

What a killer that deal has become.

[Old Red]

At what point is something excuses or reasons? Which is fair?

 

The Sox have been playing games and fielding teams where they have more guys who started the year in AAA and less guys who are MLBers.

 

All teams deal with injuries, and the better systems have depth, or can trade to fill in the gaps, but almost no one can account for losing as much as the Sox have. Is that Blooms fault? Or JH or Cora’s? IDK, maybe, that’s not what I’m here for. But let’s try to imagine for second this team with a reasonable bill of health right now. That team probably commands the first WC spot right now.

 

Anyones AAA team would get crushed against MLB teams

So the Red Sox were a AAA team to start 10-19? You can only take the injury thing just so far, before it gets not credible.

[Bellhorn04]

I think I am in league with the majority of Red Sox Nation when I say that I want to.see results . Tired of hearing excuses. On here , we have folks who have excuses for everything. The misfortunes that have happened to the Sox , happen to other teams as well. Enough with the excuses. This is a proud , big time franchise. Let's stop with the excuses . Let's see some results. And it starts at the top.

 

I'm happy with the results of 4 championships.

 

Can you name a team that has good results every year?