Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Wacha and Hill were lottery tickets, no question.

 

I think Bloom was counting on Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, maybe Whitlock, maybe some of the young guys like Crawford and Winckowski, Paxton late in the year etc.

 

I think Bloom envisioned Wacha, Hill or a prospect to provide a bridge to Sale and Paxton.

 

Bloom did choose to spend less on Hill and Wacha than Richards and Perez, but if you count Paxton, he spent more in 2022. In terms of time, it almost worked, then Sale got hurt, again.

[moonslav59]

I'm sorry my friend but beating Dombrowski to death is ridiculous. This has been a fun forum for me but obviously I am a fan of DD"s. I'm pretty sure that you know how I feel about a multi billionair's budget as well. Eventually the current administration has to take responsibility for what is going on.

 

True and for 2021, too.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm sorry my friend but beating Dombrowski to death is ridiculous. This has been a fun forum for me but obviously I am a fan of DD"s. I'm pretty sure that you know how I feel about a multi billionair's budget as well. Eventually the current administration has to take responsibility for what is going on.

 

I'm not trying to beat DD to death. I have generally defended him. Just saying that he was the GM for the negotiations with Betts.

 

Personally I think not keeping Betts is all on Henry. He drew a line financially.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Bloom envisioned Wacha, Hill or a prospect to provide a bridge to Sale and Paxton.

 

Bloom did choose to spend less on Hill and Wacha than Richards and Perez, but if you count Paxton, he spent more in 2022. In terms of time, it almost worked, then Sale got hurt, again.

 

We orginally thought Sale would be on the team for Opening Day.

[moonslav59]

The Story signing did suck and Bloom has created a mess of a team this year. It’s been weird trying to figure out his 1b/OF/RP plans the past few years.

 

Yes, so far the Story signing has not looked good. There is time to change that, but only his rbis are semi redeeming. The money spent here created the need to go cheaper in other areas.

 

Bloom had to choose one spot for in-house, and relying on Dalbec to bridge to Casas seemed like the best choice.

 

The RF situation was hurt by the JBJ deal, no doubt. My scalp scans have yet to heal.

[cp176]

I'm not trying to beat DD to death. I have generally defended him. Just saying that he was the GM for the negotiations with Betts.

 

Personally I think not keeping Betts is all on Henry. He drew a line financially.

 

I'm just saying that between Betts and Devers we have two players who just don't come along that often. I am so sick of people trying to tell me about Henry's budget when i don't think that they have one single idea about what they are talking. If he wanted them badly enough, we would have them. It has also been suggested that if we should start winning with no name talent, all would be forgiven and that life would go on. I disagree. Bloom or whoever has done what's been done to date has been much less than most would expect from a Red Sox franchise and I don't care who the owner or the GM is. I am not a spoiled fan either. I am realistic and to date it has been sickening. I hope things change. If I am expected to give JH credit for what has been accomplished in the past than I think anyone who questions the contracts to the warriors that helped us win our most recent World Championships

for their past greatness presents the epitome of hypocrisy.

[jad]

I'm not trying to beat DD to death. I have generally defended him. Just saying that he was the GM for the negotiations with Betts.

 

Personally I think not keeping Betts is all on Henry. He drew a line financially.

 

Then that's on Henry. It may or may not have been the right decision, but it was his, and he needs to own it.

[notin]

I was all in on Berrios, and have also acknowledged that he's a bust this year. So credit to Bloom if he or his office knew something we mere mortals didn't.

 

But I still say proven guys under 30 are the type that builds stability in a rotation... and come on, they're less likely to break down midseason than the comebacking Wachas and Hills...

 

... unless you have a scout with inside info that the guy is a bad risk, for whatever reason.

 

But MADSTORK said we could have had Berrios for Duran. As far as I know, the only person suggesting that that deal was even a possibility was me and it was based solely on BTV valuations. I never saw anything anywhere indicating Minnesota had even the slightest interest in Duran.

 

And Toronto’s offer also looked helluva lot better….

[moonslav59]

The Story signing did suck and Bloom has created a mess of a team this year. It’s been weird trying to figure out his 1b/OF/RP plans the past few years.

 

But MADSTORK said we could have had Berrios for Duran. As far as I know, the only person suggesting that that deal was even a possibility was me and it was based solely on BTV valuations. I never saw anything anywhere indicating Minnesota had even the slightest interest in Duran.

 

And Toronto’s offer also looked helluva lot better….

 

I’m no huge Duran fan, but I’m glad we didn’t do that deal.

[notin]

I'm sorry my friend but beating Dombrowski to death is ridiculous. This has been a fun forum for me but obviously I am a fan of DD"s. I'm pretty sure that you know how I feel about a multi billionair's budget as well. Eventually the current administration has to take responsibility for what is going on.

 

He’s really not doing that. He’s just pointing out the real end of the Betts Saga.

 

I have probably been DD’s biggest critic, but I do acknowledge he made Betts a very fair - and some say ridiculous - offer, just that Mookie wanted more. Extending Betts didn’t happen under DD. Moving Betts happened under Bloom…

[Elktonnick]

It's tiresome to have to keep repeating that the Red Sox payroll for tax purposes is 242 million this year.

 

What does it really matter what his other interests are? All he has to do for the Red Sox is set the budget and let his baseball people do the rest.

 

I think the real bottom line, though, is this: let's revisit the spending thing next April. With so much money coming off the books and talent off the roster, they really do have to spend.

The current payroll was set by actions that took place in the past. Henry clearly has other interests that he is spending more resources on. It should not be lost on anyone that Henry's dictum to cut expenses is coincidental with his efforts to marshall resources to buy other ventures. Clearly the two are related.

[moonslav59]

The Story signing did suck and Bloom has created a mess of a team this year. It’s been weird trying to figure out his 1b/OF/RP plans the past few years.

 

He’s really not doing that. He’s just pointing out the real end of the Betts Saga.

 

I have probably been DD’s biggest critic, but I do acknowledge he made Betts a very fair - and some say ridiculous - offer, just that Mookie wanted more. Extending Betts didn’t happen under DD. Moving Betts happened under Bloom…

 

This is accurate, but it sounds like it’s Bloom’s fault Betts left, without some qualifying statement attached.

[moonslav59]

The Story signing did suck and Bloom has created a mess of a team this year. It’s been weird trying to figure out his 1b/OF/RP plans the past few years.

 

The current payroll was set by actions that took place in the past. Henry clearly has other interests that he is spending more resources on. It should not be lost on anyone that Henry's dictum to cut expenses is coincidental with his efforts to marshall resources to buy other ventures. Clearly the two are related.

 

Henry has lowered winter spending several times over the last two decades, sometimes for 2-3 year stretches.

I’m not doubting your point, but I find no reason to think he won’t splurge again, when he feels the timing is right.

[Elktonnick]

Henry has lowered winter spending several times over the last two decades, sometimes for 2-3 year stretches.

I’m not doubting your point, but I find no reason to think he won’t splurge again, when he feels the timing is right.

 

I agree. He may authorize increased spending some time in the future

But at this moment he is economizing.

A lot of Boston.fans believe he has lost interest in the team..I do not think that is the case.

 

I just happen to believe that his top priority right now is not the Boston Red Sox. There has been media reports that he is consumed with securing the NBA team.

 

I suspect that if one were to track his previous economy moves with the Red Sox they would coincide with his acquisitions of othe professional sports teams.

[moonslav59]

The Story signing did suck and Bloom has created a mess of a team this year. It’s been weird trying to figure out his 1b/OF/RP plans the past few years.

 

I agree. He may authorize increased spending some time in the future

But at this moment he is economizing.

A lot of Boston.fans believe he has lost interest in the team..I do not think that is the case.

 

I just happen to believe that his top priority right now is not the Boston Red Sox. There has been media reports that he is consumed with securing the NBA team.

 

I suspect that if one were to track his previous economy moves with the Red Sox they would coincide with his acquisitions of othe professional sports teams.

 

Agreed.

 

I also think he picks and chooses when he feels the team is 1-2 studs from a ring, and IMO, I don’t think that time is this deadline.

 

I get the frustration over the string possibility the Bogey- Nate- JD window looks to be closing in 2 months, and now look like it could be an all in time, but I don’t see it that way.

 

We are also witnessing one side effect of going all in like 2018. If we went all in now, we may be in this same boat again in 3-5 years, less if we splurge on only 2 month rentals.

[cp176]

It might be time to look ahead and not constantly behind. If Bloom was brought on board to economize in some way it has nothing to do with anything that has happened in the past. It so easy to look back and blame someone else for what some perceive as a mess. Any mess that has been created is with the blessing of current ownership and what their current approach might be. My guess would be that when Bloom took this job he new exactly what was going on and what was expected of him. Can we at least agree that he is intelligent. Based on what he has done since he came on board there has been very little to date that smells of much success. I understand injuries not goofy moves. I wish him luck. Without the big time financial support that each of JH's previous gms had, he might have a very difficult time in New England. Some of you have said that those of us who disagree with many of your takes are typical New England spoiled fans. In my case - you damn right I am. True New England sports fans like winners and have a low tolerance for losers. If that sounds pompous and a bit braggadocios, I have other ways I could say the same thing. And by the way, personally I will always feel the JH can afford to purchase anything he wants. He has proven that over and over and over. It's about priorities.

[Bellhorn04]

And by the way, personally I will always feel the JH can afford to purchase anything he wants. He has proven that over and over and over. It's about priorities.

 

I think JH has proven two things over and over and over:

 

1) He's willing to have one of the top payrolls in baseball year-in year-out and to give out big contracts.

2) He has limits. He's not willing to have the top payroll in baseball year-in year-out or to pay a lot of luxury tax.

 

You say he can afford to purchase anything he wants. Okay, great - so why doesn't he? Why didn't he just give Mookie whatever he wanted? Why hasn't he already signed Bogey and Devers to extensions?

[MADSTORK]

When STORK starts making sense to you, it's not a good sign. The guy just spews stuff. Some is true and some is nonsense. One thing he has lambasted Bloom for is not trading for Berrios. He fails to mention that Berrios has SUCKED this year with a 5.20 ERA. He's one of those people who never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

I’ll take all the criticism you want to dish out! Do me one favor when you do please, “do your homework”

 

Berrios age 27 last season. Six previous seasons from last year, 32 start average, 200 innings with less hits allowed to IP and = or more strikeouts to IP, ERA 3.5

This season HR ball has been an issue but on pace for 30 plus starts with same or = numbers

 

Bottom line “Work horse “ legit 1A” Starting pitcher which by all accounts you could have landed for Duran

 

Bloom is lost in translation my friend “lost”

 

Those are the facts and the facts are undisputed

[MADSTORK]

I'm just saying that between Betts and Devers we have two players who just don't come along that often. I am so sick of people trying to tell me about Henry's budget when i don't think that they have one single idea about what they are talking. If he wanted them badly enough, we would have them. It has also been suggested that if we should start winning with no name talent, all would be forgiven and that life would go on. I disagree. Bloom or whoever has done what's been done to date has been much less than most would expect from a Red Sox franchise and I don't care who the owner or the GM is. I am not a spoiled fan either. I am realistic and to date it has been sickening. I hope things change. If I am expected to give JH credit for what has been accomplished in the past than I think anyone who questions the contracts to the warriors that helped us win our most recent World Championships

for their past greatness presents the epitome of hypocrisy.

 

Amen

[Hugh2]

Stork.

 

“By all accounts Duran gets you a 1A pitcher”

 

That’s the biggest made up load of garbage I’ve ever heard. Here’s a challenge, fine ONE account, just one where Duran could have landed you an ACE?

 

The Sox traded 4 legit prospects to land Sale. Two of them being ranked much higher than Duran and one of them being ranked #1 overall. That would be Kopech and Moncada.

 

I checked my work…..now show me yours.

[moonslav59]

It might be time to look ahead and not constantly behind. If Bloom was brought on board to economize in some way it has nothing to do with anything that has happened in the past. It so easy to look back and blame someone else for what some perceive as a mess. Any mess that has been created is with the blessing of current ownership and what their current approach might be. My guess would be that when Bloom took this job he new exactly what was going on and what was expected of him. Can we at least agree that he is intelligent. Based on what he has done since he came on board there has been very little to date that smells of much success. I understand injuries not goofy moves. I wish him luck. Without the big time financial support that each of JH's previous gms had, he might have a very difficult time in New England. Some of you have said that those of us who disagree with many of your takes are typical New England spoiled fans. In my case - you damn right I am. True New England sports fans like winners and have a low tolerance for losers. If that sounds pompous and a bit braggadocios, I have other ways I could say the same thing. And by the way, personally I will always feel the JH can afford to purchase anything he wants. He has proven that over and over and over. It's about priorities.

 

Right now,Henry’s priority is not to spend wildly. It’s not Blooms choice.

 

The “very little success to date” comment might be premature, since many of his moves were for prospects still on the farm.

 

If “few” means Whitlock, Wacha, Strahm, Pivetta, schreiber, Refsnyder and promising prospects Mayer,Yorke, German and many more, then maybe we disagree on the meaning of few or success within the context of having peanuts to spend the first 2 winters. I

[moonslav59]

Stork.

 

“By all accounts Duran gets you a 1A pitcher”

 

That’s the biggest made up load of garbage I’ve ever heard. Here’s a challenge, fine ONE account, just one where Duran could have landed you an ACE?

 

The Sox traded 4 legit prospects to land Sale. Two of them being ranked much higher than Duran and one of them being ranked #1 overall. That would be Kopech and Moncada.

 

I checked my work…..now show me yours.

 

Don’t hold your breath. I’m still waiting on one link that gave Bloom a failing grade on the Betts deal when made, after Red claimed everyone did.

[cp176]

I think JH has proven two things over and over and over:

 

1) He's willing to have one of the top payrolls in baseball year-in year-out and to give out big contracts.

2) He has limits. He's not willing to have the top payroll in baseball year-in year-out or to pay a lot of luxury tax.

 

You say he can afford to purchase anything he wants. Okay, great - so why doesn't he? Why didn't he just give Mookie whatever he wanted? Why hasn't he already signed Bogey and Devers to extensions?

 

I think that I have already said this once or twice. I honestly believe that his other irons in the fire are having a great effect on what we are seeing in Fenway. I 'm happy with what he has done in the past but I'm a lot more happy with what the bona fide stars that many of you say were overpaid did for us to win our championships. I do not believe that those contracts are affecting what he wants or plans to do going forward.

[jad]

I think the "1A" pitcher the RS could get for Duran refers to a "single-A" MiLB pitcher.

[jacksonianmarch]

Duran is closer to a DFA than bringing back major value. He turns 26 in a month, hasn’t proven he can hit major league pitching and he is an abysmal defender. He’s trending towards the AAAA designation

[cp176]

I think the "1A" pitcher the RS could get for Duran refers to a "single-A" MiLB pitcher.

 

Sadly i think that Duran looks like another example of how we overrate some of our prospects. We want them to be so good so badly. Prospects are prospects

[Old Red]

Sadly i think that Duran looks like another example of how we overrate some of our prospects. We want them to be so good so badly. Prospects are prospects

 

But he can run fast. Just not fast enough after he gets a bad jump on a ball. Of course that’s when he sees the ball.

[Bellhorn04]

I think that I have already said this once or twice. I honestly believe that his other irons in the fire are having a great effect on what we are seeing in Fenway. I 'm happy with what he has done in the past but I'm a lot more happy with what the bona fide stars that many of you say were overpaid did for us to win our championships. I do not believe that those contracts are affecting what he wants or plans to do going forward.

 

OK, you're one of the subscribers to the "other irons in the fire" theory.

 

To me it doesn't make sense because like I said, all Henry really has to do for the team is say "here's the budget", "yes, I will sign that contract" or "no, I will not".

 

It shouldn't really take up much of his time.

[Old Red]

OK, you're one of the subscribers to the "other irons in the fire" theory.

 

To me it doesn't make sense because like I said, all Henry really has to do for the team is say "here's the budget", "yes, I will sign that contract" or "no, I will not".

 

It shouldn't really take up much of his time.

Do you think that JH of today would have the same budget as the JH of when he first arrived in Boston? I don’t, and I don’t think it has anything to do with his time.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Bloom isn't allowed to tear down this team, then he should be fired. Because if you won't let the guy do what he is good at (trading) then what's the point of having him there.

 

As much as he has helped the sox in their rebuild of the farm, the farm is still VERY tenuous and not deep. The farm, as is, cannot sustain a rebuild. And if you don't have the major prospect core for a rebuild (either via trade or promotion), you need to rely on the FA market. The FA market this winter sucks, honestly and truly. If you think it is a foregone conclusion that the Yankees sign Judge (which I do, the only way Judge goes elsewhere is if he truly wants to move back to Cali. Hal will give an edict to sign him for whatever it costs), then you're left with Trea Turner who isn't the biggest need and a bunch of has beens offensively.

 

Bloom needs to be able to deal Bogey, JD, Eo, Vaz, etc to build up the prospect cache to start building. If he cannot do it, the rebuild will probably take another 2 years on top of the 2 years already expected