Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

Like moon I disagree about the trades, but the rest, sadly, seems about right.

 

Big Bastards of Boston podcast fan ^

[mvp 78]

A nasty thought has occurred to me: although Bloom has made some good moves as documented by you, he has yet to make a single acquisition that is what you can call a legit star player, a 3-4 WAR guy - not even for one full season, I don't think.

 

The 2023 Red Sox don't have a single player with an fWAR higher than 2.6.

 

Verdugo in 2020 had 1.9 fWAR in only 53 games...

 

Kiké had 4 fWAR in 2021.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

See my list with Bloom guys highlighted in red. (Wink & Wong did not make the list.)

 

Yes, a lot of mediocrity and slightly better, but no real major find or get.

 

Perhaps Story could have been without injury. Perhaps Duvall.

 

Kike was one and done.

 

Hill did fine, but he doesn't jump out at us.

 

Story and Duvall: comparable ballplayers who've had success at the big league level, not superstars or even stars, but guys who can augment legitimate contenders (like Adam did in '21). Both are good defensively -- but Story phenomenal (like Middlebrooks called him 89 times last night)? Maybe on the '23 Sox, by not throwing a ball into the dugout once a game.

 

Both are also capable of hot hitting streaks -- but nothing near the consistency of a star batter. Duvall can homer in seven straight games (see late-August), then strikeout seven straight times (see Tampa).

 

Thanks for using "perhaps." You're coming around. Now, if only Raffy would... (he will have better seasons than this one during his new contract years).

[moonslav59]

Verdugo in 2020 had 1.9 fWAR in only 53 games...

 

Kiké had 4 fWAR in 2021.

 

Duvall is 2.2 in less than half a season played, this year.

[Randy Red Sox]

Like moon I disagree about the trades, but the rest, sadly, seems about right.

 

I disagreed about the trades too

[mvp 78]

Duvall is 2.2 in less than half a season played, this year.

 

Difference for me is that Verdugo was healthy and should have been able to reach 3 fWAR due to no fault of his own. Duvall got hurt and won't get to 3 fWAR.

[mvp 78]

I disagreed about the trades too

 

For all the grief certain posters have taken for being Bloom apologists, we've done a good job on here talking about his faults. The majority of his faults are related to the MLB squad.

 

Developing pitching? Ben and DD couldn't do that either. We haven't had any sort of pitching pipeline since Lester, Paplebon, Buchholz under Theo. Even then, that was really more of a mirage than anything else. The Red Sox have never been great at churning out pitching in my lifetime. It's been a hitter's org: Rice, Lynn, Dewey, Fisk, Boggs, Gator, Burks, Nomar, Mo, Valentin, Pedey, Youk, Betts, Xander, Devers, Beni, JBJ. The list of developed pitchers is far shorter and less impressive.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kike was the unexpected hook-up at the bar where most attention was on the more glitzy. You even hit the jackpot with Kike on a few hot getaway weekends, where you barely left the hotel.

 

But reality came a-calling with an attempt at commitment: piles of clothes and shoes everywhere, make-up bottles and brushes all over the bathroom... and erratic headaches and elbows full of bad timing.

[mvp 78]

2004 Red Sox rotation: all drafted elsewhere

2007 Red Sox rotation: Lester

2013 Red Sox rotation: Lester, Buchholz, Dubront

2018 Red Sox rotation: all drafted elsewhere

[Bellhorn04]

2004 Red Sox rotation: all drafted elsewhere

2007 Red Sox rotation: Lester

2013 Red Sox rotation: Lester, Buchholz, Dubront

2018 Red Sox rotation: all drafted elsewhere

 

Schilling was drafted by the Sox, just didn't play for them for a long time.

[mvp 78]

Schilling was drafted by the Sox, just didn't play for them for a long time.

 

They would have broke him if he got to Pawtucket. Ed Nottle would have had his arm in a sling.

[moonslav59]

Difference for me is that Verdugo was healthy and should have been able to reach 3 fWAR due to no fault of his own. Duvall got hurt and won't get to 3 fWAR.

 

Yes, a very notable difference.

 

I do think the Duvall signing was a good one. A kind of freakish injury hurt.

 

One point about the "what if" in 2020 for Verdugo:

 

2023:

2.2 first half

0.4 second half

[Dipre]

Schilling was drafted by the Sox, just didn't play for them for a long time.

 

Drafting isn't enough. Players need to be developed.

[mvp 78]

Yes, a very notable difference.

 

I do think the Duvall signing was a good one. A kind of freakish injury hurt.

 

One point about the "what if" in 2020 for Verdugo:

 

2023:

2.2 first half

0.4 second half

 

He had a higher OPS in 2020 than in the first half of 2020. I think he's made changes to his body and his approach at the plate that has harmed his numbers since 2020. Also, his DRS in LF was boosting his fWAR in 2020 while playing with Pillar. He doesn't have that luxury in 2023.

[mvp 78]

Drafting isn't enough. Players need to be developed.

 

Schill did get to AA. He was just traded with Brady Anderson for Mike Boddicker (9.1 fWAR in 2.5 years, 2 playoff runs). Was that a good trade for the Sox? It took until '92 for Schilling to really develop. Anderson also was a mediocre guy until he started cycling in '92. I'm not sold that the Sox would have been able to get the most out of Schilling and Clemens hadn't found his steroid hook up by '92. Probably best for all parties that the trade was made.

[Dipre]

Then again, maybe Schilling gets hooked up with Roger's dealer and they become a monster 1-2 atop the Sox rotation in the early nineties. Lots of what-ifs.

[mvp 78]

Then again, maybe Schilling gets hooked up with Roger's dealer and they become a monster 1-2 atop the Sox rotation in the early nineties. Lots of what-ifs.

 

I don't think he had a dealer until he got to TOR.

[Bellhorn04]

Drafting isn't enough. Players need to be developed.

 

I knew that was gonna get asterisked.

[moonslav59]

2020 (only 4 rounds)

Yorke 17

Jordan 89

Wu-Yelland 118

Drohan 148

 

2021

Mayer 4

Fabian 40- no sign

McDonough 75

E-R-C 105

Hickey 136

(Dobbins 226, Kavadas 316, Guerrero 496)

 

2021

Romero 24

CCoffye 41

Anthony 79

Rogers 99

Meidroth 129

Dean 159

(Brannom 279, ICoffey 309)

 

2023

Teel 14

Zanetello 50

Anderson 83

Duffy 115

Campbell 132

 

I see more than 2 good picks per year on average.

 

[Bellhorn04]

2020 (only 4 rounds)

Yorke 17

Jordan 89

Wu-Yelland 118

Drohan 148

 

2021

Mayer 4

Fabian 40- no sign

McDonough 75

E-R-C 105

Hickey 136

(Dobbins 226, Kavadas 316, Guerrero 496)

 

2021

Romero 24

CCoffye 41

Anthony 79

Rogers 99

Meidroth 129

Dean 159

(Brannom 279, ICoffey 309)

 

2023

Teel 14

Zanetello 50

Anderson 83

Duffy 115

Campbell 132

 

I see more than 2 good picks per year on average.

 

 

Potentially.

[Duran Is The Man]

2020 (only 4 rounds)

Yorke 17

Jordan 89

Wu-Yelland 118

Drohan 148

 

2021

Mayer 4

Fabian 40- no sign

McDonough 75

E-R-C 105

Hickey 136

(Dobbins 226, Kavadas 316, Guerrero 496)

 

2021

Romero 24

CCoffye 41

Anthony 79

Rogers 99

Meidroth 129

Dean 159

(Brannom 279, ICoffey 309)

 

2023

Teel 14

Zanetello 50

Anderson 83

Duffy 115

Campbell 132

 

I see more than 2 good picks per year on average.

 

 

Mayer struggled big-time in AA and now he's hurt. i'd trade him in a second in a package for a quality SP.

[MADSTORK]

Had to trade 1 year of Betts and got 5 years of Dugo and 5 years of Wong. I'm sure you call this a bad trade, despite a gun being held to his head.

 

Beni for Wink & Gambrell is not over yet, and the money saved helped us sign Renfroe. You must count this as a loss and not an incomplete, right?

 

Springs and Mazza for RHern- a clear loss.

 

2 months of Workman & Hembree (who both sucked afterwards) for Pivetta: You call this a loss?

 

Renfroe for JBJ and DHam & Binelas- I'd say this is far enough along to not expect much from DHam, so calling this a loss is fine by me. (I'm still scratching my head.)

 

Nothing for 1 year of Ottavino & F German (then German for Denlinger)

 

Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber- really? A loss?

 

Diekman for McGuire- was good if only as a salary dump- no dispute

 

Groome for Hosmer, Cory Rosier (looking real good) & Max Ferguson

 

2 months of Vaz for Abreu and EValdez- a loss? Really?

 

Cash for Reyes- a loss?

 

Blaylock for Urias?

 

(Some of the above could be called "minor.")

 

Minor trades:

Moreland for Rosario & Potts

Pillar for Jacob Wallace for Wyatt Mills

Scherff for Robles

Northcutt for Pham

JTaylor for Mondesi

Barnes & $ for Bleier

 

I'm not seeing anything close to 95%. Most are pushes.

 

 

 

Lmao!

Your delusional once again

 

Where is Renfro ?

AB was a champion, gold glove caliber, I’ll take a player like that any day of week

 

Rosier Ferguson 24 years old in AA and A ball

Again, to old for the level they play at = Beer Leaguers!

 

You’re a legend moon, a legend in your own mind!

[MADSTORK]

Mayer struggled big-time in AA and now he's hurt. i'd trade him in a second in a package for a quality SP.

 

Lmao!

Another delusional post

 

The player is 20 years old 600 AB in A AA with 26 HR and limited strikeouts, your take those numbers to the bank and you further develop the Player

 

Get a clue !

[mvp 78]

Lmao!

Your delusional once again

 

Where is Renfro ?

AB was a champion, gold glove caliber, I’ll take a player like that any day of week

 

Rosier Ferguson 24 years old in AA and A ball

Again, to old for the level they play at = Beer Leaguers!

 

You’re a legend moon, a legend in your own mind!

 

The average age of a player in AA is 24.

 

I don't think Rosier or Ferguson will amount to anything, but I wouldn't say any prospect in AA who is 24 is an automatic beer leaguer.

[moonslav59]

Lmao!

Your delusional once again

 

Where is Renfro ?

AB was a champion, gold glove caliber, I’ll take a player like that any day of week

 

Rosier Ferguson 24 years old in AA and A ball

Again, to old for the level they play at = Beer Leaguers!

 

You’re a legend moon, a legend in your own mind!

 

You can't read. I have Renfroe listed as a head scratching bad trade.

AB did not do all that well after the trade and is not good, now. I said "you can call it a loss or incomplete."

Rosier is a better prospect than Groom, right now, but call that one minor or a push- fine.

 

Try getting your reading comprehension and facts in check, first,

[moonslav59]

Potentially.

 

That goes without saying.

 

Saying only two per year could prove to be an overstatement, too.

[mvp 78]

Groome has an 8.53 ERA in AAA and requires a 40 man roster spot (7+ BB/9). I think I may rather have Rosier.

[moonslav59]

The average age of a player in AA is 24.

 

I don't think Rosier or Ferguson will amount to anything, but I wouldn't say any prospect in AA who is 24 is an automatic beer leaguer.

 

Rosier turns 24, today.

 

His .799 OPS is not eye-popping, but it's improved as he's moved up levels. He's also been on base about 140 times and has 49 SBs.

 

He has as good a chance at making a ML impact as Groome does with his 8.63 ERA.

 

Who is the delusional one, here?

[mvp 78]

Rosier turns 24, today.

 

His .799 OPS is not eye-popping, but it's improved as he's moved up levels. He's also been on base about 140 times and has 49 SBs.

 

He has as good a chance at making a ML impact as Groome does with his 8.63 ERA.

 

Who is the delusional one, here?

 

8.53 ERA, actually.

[cp176]

It would not surprise me at all to see Bloom gone soon after the season ends. The deals he has been involved with have not all been failures but they don't match up very well with what a franchise like boston has been used to. We have many reasonably solid looking young minor leaguers some of whom are moving up quickly such as Teel. We have quite a few duplicates as well. I don't think that since he has been here, Bloom has shown that he can even if he was willing to try to make the deals that could push a team like the Sox back in to the big playoff picture. If Henry decides that bloom stays, I think that we better get used to seeing much more of what we have been seeing for the last few years.