Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

we have 4 last place finishes in the last 10 years so I am not sure how much of a winning strategy it has been.

 

Also tied for the lead in WS wins over that time frame.

[mvp 78]

yet being able to draft Jordan seemed to be the selling point for drafting Yorke about 100 spots above where he was ranked.

 

Red Sox didn't know Blaze would be available. They did hope they could go over slot, but they were happy to select Yorke. Yorke is now a near top 100 prospect so I don't think it was a big time miss for them. Not every 1st rounder works out. That pick was good. They believed someone else would have drafted him. They loved his hit tool.

[moonslav59]

I am not obsessed with tearing it down but simply stating it is over-rated in my opinion.

 

Where do you think they should be ranked?

 

How much do you know about other farms of teams these ranking services have behind us?

 

We have graduated a lot of prospects, recently, so I do think we may have moved down a bit due to attrition, but I think the power of our lower farm will help us rise back up to the top 10 within a year or two.

 

Our next grads are not on the same level as Bello, Duran, Casas, Wong, Bernardino, Crawford and Winckowski. All these guys graduated after July 1, 2022.

 

Players that may graduate before July 1, 2024:

10. E Valdez

11. B Walter

13. C Murphy

22. D Hamilton

47. J Jacques

 

Longshots:

18. B Mata (if he ever stays healthy)

20. W Abreu

25. L Guerrero

26. R Fernandez

38. S Scott

39. P Sikes

43. C Koss

48. AJ Politi

51. T Denlinger

I Coffey, G Gambrell, N Sogard, R Fitzgerald

 

I can see why this class can bring you down, especially when compared to the recent class of graduates, but shortly after the above class reaches graduation potential, we will see these guys (by July 1, 2025:)

 

1. Mayer

3. Rafaela

5. Yorke

6. Drohan

9. Wikelman

12. Bonaci

14. Meidroth

15. Jordan

17. Paulino

21. Hickey

Plus some from the above list that failed to graduate by 7/1/24.

 

Call me a homer, but I'm excited about our younger prospects:

 

Age:

 

19

Bleis #2

Anthony #4

Romero #8

Rodriguez-Cruz #19

C Coffey #27

L Ravelo #29

B Brannon #31

Y Monegro 32

J Paez 42

E Lira 49

N Yuten 50

A Lugo 60

 

18

Joh Garcia #16

M Alcanatara #28

F Encarnacion 45

 

17

Y Cespedes #23

F Arias 46

[moonslav59]

Who is Josh Beckett?

 

Who is Chris Sale?

 

...and from way back:

 

Pedro Martinez

 

...and more recently & to a lesser extent...

 

Rick Porcello

 

Nathan Eovaldi

[mvp 78]

If you look at Tampas drafting they've missed on a LOT of guys, but they hit here and there too. It's easier for them to do that with the number of draft picks they get. Sox don't have that luxury.

 

It also takes a loooong time to develop guys. People on here wonder why Bloom hasn't produced a roster of bonus babies by now.

 

McClanahan was a college arm drafted in 2018, but he wasn't ready until 2021. Taj Bradley was drafted the same year out of HS.

 

Their 1st round selection that year, Matthew Liberatore, signed for more than Shane AND Taj and now has a 6+ ERA (7.53 xERA) for the Cardinals and is in the bottom 1 percentile of k% for MLB.

[moonslav59]

It also takes a loooong time to develop guys. People on here wonder why Bloom hasn't produced a roster of bonus babies by now.

 

McClanahan was a college arm drafted in 2018, but he wasn't ready until 2021. Taj Bradley was drafted the same year out of HS.

 

Their 1st round selection that year, Matthew Liberatore, signed for more than Shane AND Taj and now has a 6+ ERA (7.53 xERA) for the Cardinals and is in the bottom 1 percentile of k% for MLB.

 

Bloom also drafted mostly HS players in the top rounds, so expectations for earlier returns are totally unrealistic.

 

I have actually been impressed by how many Bloom prospects have made an impact, despite all those HS picks and the lost 2020 season of development and shortened draft.

 

Whitlock Rule 5

Winckowski Trade

Wong Trade

Bernardino Waivers

To a lesser extent...

E Valdez & D Hamilton via trades

 

This is pretty decent immediate help, considering.

 

 

 

 

[Randy Red Sox]

I give up. Can't have discussions with people who already have their minds made up. BTW the list you gave is hardly stellar. You are already counting Bernadino as a great find?

Bloom also drafted mostly HS players in the top rounds, so expectations for earlier returns are totally unrealistic.

 

I have actually been impressed by how many Bloom prospects have made an impact, despite all those HS picks and the lost 2020 season of development and shortened draft.

 

Whitlock Rule 5

Winckowski Trade

Wong Trade

Bernardino Waivers

To a lesser extent...

E Valdez & D Hamilton via trades

 

This is pretty decent immediate help, considering.

 

 

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It also takes a loooong time to develop guys. People on here wonder why Bloom hasn't produced a roster of bonus babies by now.

 

McClanahan was a college arm drafted in 2018, but he wasn't ready until 2021. Taj Bradley was drafted the same year out of HS.

 

Their 1st round selection that year, Matthew Liberatore, signed for more than Shane AND Taj and now has a 6+ ERA (7.53 xERA) for the Cardinals and is in the bottom 1 percentile of k% for MLB.

 

And somehow the Rays knew to trade Liberatore before he struggled, for another prospect named Arozarena.

 

Now that's the kind of team-building a GM deserves praise for; it shows more than just drafting the best player available.

[Dipre]

And somehow the Rays knew to trade Liberatore before he struggled, for another prospect named Arozarena.

 

Now that's the kind of team-building a GM deserves praise for; it shows more than just drafting the best player available.

 

That's what we need to see if these guys can do. But trying to diminish praise for a sound drafting philosophy is also a fool's errand.

[Dipre]

I give up. Can't have discussions with people who already have their minds made up. BTW the list you gave is hardly stellar. You are already counting Bernadino as a great find?

 

Why do you put your quote above the post?

[mvp 78]

I give up. Can't have discussions with people who already have their minds made up. BTW the list you gave is hardly stellar. You are already counting Bernadino as a great find?

 

Whitlock was a good pick.

Was Winckowski enough of a return for Andrew Benintendi??? Does anyone think this?

Betts for Wong/Verdugo? Still doesn't feel like enough for a HOF RFer.

Bernardino? No comment.

Valdez/Abreu for Vaz was a good trade.

Hamilton/JBJ for Renfroe was horrifically stupid.

[mvp 78]

Everyone posts this way.

 

Why do you put your quote above the post?

[mvp 78]

And somehow the Rays knew to trade Liberatore before he struggled, for another prospect named Arozarena.

 

Now that's the kind of team-building a GM deserves praise for; it shows more than just drafting the best player available.

 

Oh, then the Sox should go get a guy from the Rays to run the org then!

[moonslav59]

I give up. Can't have discussions with people who already have their minds made up. BTW the list you gave is hardly stellar. You are already counting Bernadino as a great find?

 

Where did I come even close to hinting Bernardino is a "great find."

 

I'm saying I am impressed by what we have gotten from Bloom's farm, since I expected about nothing for 3-6 years after his hiring.

 

I have not "made up my mind." I have said over and over much of the value placed on Bloom's farm is highly speculative. Recently, I said it could end up being like Ben's that looked good on paper and got us some value through DD's trades but underperformed expectations.

 

I am very open-minded and know Bloom's farm could crash and burn.

 

[moonslav59]

Whitlock was a good pick.

Was Winckowski enough of a return for Andrew Benintendi??? Does anyone think this?

Betts for Wong/Verdugo? Still doesn't feel like enough for a HOF RFer.

Bernardino? No comment.

Valdez/Abreu for Vaz was a good trade.

Hamilton/JBJ for Renfroe was horrifically stupid.

 

Wink may very well be worth more than Beni gave. Gambrell and de la Rosa are still in play a bit.

 

Wong and Dugo for 1 year of Betts and the Price dump was a good deal, and the best available.

 

Bernardino has helped. He may suck, starting today, but he has looked good.

 

Whitlock was a steal.

 

Valdez and Abreu look very promising.

 

It's not often you get these immediate results from your farm in under 3 years.

[moonslav59]

Why do you put your quote above the post?

 

It's annoying and weird, since you have to do added work to make it like that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Oh, then the Sox should go get a guy from the Rays to run the org then!

 

Ya, the one who swung the Randy trade, post-Bloom.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I won't give Bloom credit for having a "sound drafting philosophy" because that better come with the badge. But I won't call any other poster names if they disagree with me, either.

 

What will make or break his legacy is how he'll supplement those prospects (once/if they make the Show) by filling other MLB holes on the roster... especially if he has to trade a few of them, instead of just spending the bankroll Henry allows him for free agents. We know he intends to surround Devers with talent; he told us Raffy was a good bet...

[Randy Red Sox]

i would agree with all of this post

Whitlock was a good pick.

Was Winckowski enough of a return for Andrew Benintendi??? Does anyone think this?

Betts for Wong/Verdugo? Still doesn't feel like enough for a HOF RFer.

Bernardino? No comment.

Valdez/Abreu for Vaz was a good trade.

Hamilton/JBJ for Renfroe was horrifically stupid.

[Randy Red Sox]

whitlock needs to show he can stay healthy. Jury is out on Wink in vy view. Remember MDC? The Mookie trade may have been the best we could get but we certainly didn't win it either although I don't blame Bloom. I confess to being unfamiliar with Valdez and Abreu.

Wink may very well be worth more than Beni gave. Gambrell and de la Rosa are still in play a bit.

 

Wong and Dugo for 1 year of Betts and the Price dump was a good deal, and the best available.

 

Bernardino has helped. He may suck, starting today, but he has looked good.

 

Whitlock was a steal.

 

Valdez and Abreu look very promising.

 

It's not often you get these immediate results from your farm in under 3 years.

[moonslav59]

whitlock needs to show he can stay healthy. Jury is out on Wink in vy view. Remember MDC? The Mookie trade may have been the best we could get but we certainly didn't win it either although I don't blame Bloom. I confess to being unfamiliar with Valdez and Abreu.

 

I didn’t expect much on the ML roster from Bloom’s farm in just 3.5 years. It does make sense we should expected something from the Betts, Beni and Renfroe trades that involved prospects, but that is not so cut and dried. All those trades involved getting a vet- Dugo, JBJ and Cordero, and two involved salary relief, as Price was a dump and Beni saved us $3M that one could argue allows us to sign Renfroe for $3M, in the first place.

 

All I’m saying is we have seen some help from Bloom’s farm- more than I expected, by now. Of course they still have more to prove or disprove.

 

I’m excited seeing all the farm help, much of which are DD remnants, but I’m glad we are seeking a more sustainable plan. I have no idea, if it works or not, but I choose optimism in this front.

[notin]

I didn’t expect much on the ML roster from Bloom’s farm in just 3.5 years. It does make sense we should expected something from the Betts, Beni and Renfroe trades that involved prospects, but that is not so cut and dried. All those trades involved getting a vet- Dugo, JBJ and Cordero, and two involved salary relief, as Price was a dump and Beni saved us $3M that one could argue allows us to sign Renfroe for $3M, in the first place.

 

All I’m saying is we have seen some help from Bloom’s farm- more than I expected, by now. Of course they still have more to prove or disprove.

 

I’m excited seeing all the farm help, much of which are DD remnants, but I’m glad we are seeking a more sustainable plan. I have no idea, if it works or not, but I choose optimism in this front.

 

 

I think if the Sox didn’t get some veteran players in those deals, accusations would be even more rampant (and truthfully, more justified) that Bloom was ignoring the MLB roster for the minors. Cordero and Bradley were already just likely stopgap solutions anyway. And the Sox acquired Hamilton, Winckowski, Binelas, Downs, Wong, Valdez, Gambrell and De La Rosa for those three…

[Duran Is The Man]

I didn’t expect much on the ML roster from Bloom’s farm in just 3.5 years. It does make sense we should expected something from the Betts, Beni and Renfroe trades that involved prospects, but that is not so cut and dried. All those trades involved getting a vet- Dugo, JBJ and Cordero, and two involved salary relief, as Price was a dump and Beni saved us $3M that one could argue allows us to sign Renfroe for $3M, in the first place.

 

All I’m saying is we have seen some help from Bloom’s farm- more than I expected, by now. Of course they still have more to prove or disprove.

 

I’m excited seeing all the farm help, much of which are DD remnants, but I’m glad we are seeking a more sustainable plan. I have no idea, if it works or not, but I choose optimism in this front.

 

i didn't like the Betts or Beni trades even a little bit but i understand why they were done. the JBJ trade was just f***ing stupid.

[moonslav59]

I think if the Sox didn’t get some veteran players in those deals, accusations would be even more rampant (and truthfully, more justified) that Bloom was ignoring the MLB roster for the minors. Cordero and Bradley were already just likely stopgap solutions anyway. And the Sox acquired Hamilton, Winckowski, Binelas, Downs, Wong, Valdez, Gambrell and De La Rosa for those three…

 

There is also the argument we get more for Betts without Price dragging down the return.

 

Even without counting the in trade prospects, Bloom provided the MLB club with more prospects than I expected in his 3.5 years, especially considering year 1 was COVID year and he drafted almost all HS kids, highly.

 

One can argue these guys aren't great, and I won't disagree, but how much more help did you expect from a GM under these circumstances?

 

Whitlock

Bernardino

Jacques

 

Was Schreiber a prospects when acquired? I think he had under 30 IP in the bigs w Detroit?

 

Again, I figured it would be 3-5 years for prospects to get to be ML ready (more like 5 with so many HS kids) and another 1-3 years for them to mature and contribute on a regular basis.

 

Those who have no ML experience have values that are subjective and speculative. Only time will tell, and almost any opinion on their value is acceptable.

[notin]

There is also the argument we get more for Betts without Price dragging down the return.

 

Even without counting the in trade prospects, Bloom provided the MLB club with more prospects than I expected in his 3.5 years, especially considering year 1 was COVID year and he drafted almost all HS kids, highly.

 

One can argue these guys aren't great, and I won't disagree, but how much more help did you expect from a GM under these circumstances?

 

Whitlock

Bernardino

Jacques

 

Was Schreiber a prospects when acquired? I think he had under 30 IP in the bigs w Detroit?

 

Again, I figured it would be 3-5 years for prospects to get to be ML ready (more like 5 with so many HS kids) and another 1-3 years for them to mature and contribute on a regular basis.

 

Those who have no ML experience have values that are subjective and speculative. Only time will tell, and almost any opinion on their value is acceptable.

 

I’m sure Henry was much more into offloading Price than Betts. That inclusion was inevitable…

[moonslav59]

I think if the Sox didn’t get some veteran players in those deals, accusations would be even more rampant (and truthfully, more justified) that Bloom was ignoring the MLB roster for the minors. Cordero and Bradley were already just likely stopgap solutions anyway. And the Sox acquired Hamilton, Winckowski, Binelas, Downs, Wong, Valdez, Gambrell and De La Rosa for those three…

 

It was the same with the great rotation dump of 2014. We played it halfway or both ways:

 

Lester & Gomes for Cespedes & a comp pick. (Cespedes was later flipped for Porcello.)

 

Lackey & Littrell for Alan Craig & Joe Kelly

 

Doubront for Marco Hernandez

 

Andrew Miller for ERod was the only prospect trade, and it was the best one.

 

 

[notin]

There is also the argument we get more for Betts without Price dragging down the return.

 

Even without counting the in trade prospects, Bloom provided the MLB club with more prospects than I expected in his 3.5 years, especially considering year 1 was COVID year and he drafted almost all HS kids, highly.

 

One can argue these guys aren't great, and I won't disagree, but how much more help did you expect from a GM under these circumstances?

 

Whitlock

Bernardino

Jacques

 

Was Schreiber a prospects when acquired? I think he had under 30 IP in the bigs w Detroit?

 

Again, I figured it would be 3-5 years for prospects to get to be ML ready (more like 5 with so many HS kids) and another 1-3 years for them to mature and contribute on a regular basis.

 

Those who have no ML experience have values that are subjective and speculative. Only time will tell, and almost any opinion on their value is acceptable.

 

Schreiber was waived by Detroit. He was also 27 at the time…

[notin]

It was the same with the great rotation dump of 2014. We played it halfway or both ways:

 

Lester & Gomes for Cespedes & a comp pick. (Cespedes was later flipped for Porcello.)

 

Lackey & Littrell for Alan Craig & Joe Kelly

 

Doubront for Marco Hernandez

 

Andrew Miller for ERod was the only prospect trade, and it was the best one.

 

 

 

Hey the Boston Media Illiterati like to do anything to rile the fanbase, such as focusing heavily on the phrase “bridge year” when the Sox had just given out the largest free agent pitcher contract in team history, which should have made it obvious they weren’t focusing solely on the future….

[moonslav59]

Schreiber was waived by Detroit. He was also 27 at the time…

 

Yes, I know. My question was about his prospect status and if he should count as a Bloom prospect helping the big league team.

[moonslav59]

I’m sure Henry was much more into offloading Price than Betts. That inclusion was inevitable…

 

Indeed, and that is why there were reportedly only two offers of roughly the same return value.

 

Any judgment of that trade has to be within this context, and to me getting just Dugo for 5 years makes the trade beyond criticism. I'm fine with those who do not think it was a "good trade," but I disagree. Dugo & Wong for 1 year of Betts was a good trade. The Price aspect makes it a no-brainer in my opinion.

 

The Beni trade is certainly still incomplete as Wink a few more pre-arb years, so big gains may come from him. Gambrell is looking promising, finally. de la Rosa is my sleeper prospect who has failed to crack SP's recent top 60 lists. That trade also saved us $3M and IMO, it helped us be able to sign Renfroe. (One could argue we used the $3M on Marwin, instead, and that changes that point to the worse.)

 

Nobody has to convince me the Renfroe trade was not s*****. It sucked from day one, and I said it then.

 

Even the Pivetta trade involved us getting Seabold. Bloom rarely made any trade for just prospects. That's not the typical "Rays' way" of doing things.

 

He has made prospects for prospects trades. The Groome for Hosmer and two prospects was unique for Bloom.

He's made trades like Ottavino with German for nothing.

He's made vets for vets and prospects often.

He's made a few, like Moreland and Pillar for only prospects, and the most recent one was Vaz for Abreu and EValdez, but those seem rarer than the others.

He has traded prospects for vets, like Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber, and a few more minor ones for guys like Pham, but those are rare, too.