Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

his moves have been better as of late but I wouldn't anoint him yet

 

I’m not close to anointing him at anything. I’ve said his totality of moves grades to about a B- to C. Considering the budgets he has been handed and all the holes needed to be filled, he hasn’t done as badly as many seem to think he did, before last winter.

 

People remember trading away Renfroe but not the brilliant Renfroe signing for $3M.

They remember the s***** Beni trade but forget to look closely at what Beni production post trade and give time for the returns to be graded- like Winckowski.

They forget moves like getting Pivetta for 2 washed up RP’ers, finding decent but cheap players like Arroyo, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Whitlock, Bernardino and many more. Sure, he swung and missed on a lot of other low cost additions, but you get what you pay for and he did okay on this.

The Story signing looks worse with every day he misses. The Barnes extension was awful. The Richards and Kluber signings hurt badly, but he also signed Wacha, Hill, Strahm and a few others that more than earned their pay checks.

 

It’s too early to grade out Bloom. For all we know, Yoshida could crash and Burn. The Devers extension could explode before it even kicks in.

 

To me, based on speculation and conjecture, along with some results already in the books, I’d give Bloom this…

 

B+ or A- on farm building in 3.5 yrs, counting one list year of prospect development.

 

B for getting the budget under control, despite the fears that Story might be deadwood.

 

C+ on roster additions and subtractions beyond the draft and IFAs.

[moonslav59]

It's pretty hard to knock Bloom's approach at this point in time.

 

IMO there's no way he trades Paxton, or Duvall.

 

I’m still thinking Duvall has more value to other teams than ours, and that is often the reason some trades are made.

 

We won’t hand him away. We would not hand JD away, last year when the situation looked much worse.

 

I think we will buy more than sell, and Paxton goes nowhere.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m still thinking Duvall has more value to other teams than ours, and that is often the reason some trades are made.

 

Duvall has plenty of value to our team as a right-handed power bat and outfielder.

[moonslav59]

Duvall has plenty of value to our team as a right-handed power bat and outfielder.

 

He has a lot of value for us.

 

IMO, he has more for other teams that would play him everyday and never PH for him.

 

Our step down from him is a top ten batter vs LHPs since 2022.

 

Other teams have 1-2 OFers worse than him on O and D, vs L & R.

[Bellhorn04]

There was a time it was unheard of for teams in contention to even think about trading players who are doing well at the deadline.

 

I'm not sure that has changed, actually. There aren't many examples. I don't think Vaz is a great example because last year's team had shaky playoff prospects at best.

[moonslav59]

There was a time it was unheard of for teams in contention to even think about trading players who are doing well at the deadline.

 

I'm not sure that has changed, actually. There aren't many examples. I don't think Vaz is a great example because last year's team had shaky playoff prospects at best.

 

We just traded the great Kike!

 

Whatchutalkinbout?

[moonslav59]

There was a time it was unheard of for teams in contention to even think about trading players who are doing well at the deadline.

 

I'm not sure that has changed, actually. There aren't many examples. I don't think Vaz is a great example because last year's team had shaky playoff prospects at best.

 

If it wasn’t Bllom at GM and their repeated talk of building on the future, I’d say there is a zero chance Duvall is traded. I still think the odds are low, especially after trading away Kike, who still had CF value.

 

I see it this way, we have greater needs than OF. Other teams have a great need in the OF. That is often enough to start talking trade. I could see a 3 way deal where we trade Duvall to one team, a prospect to another, and we get a SPer back. The third team throws another prospect to the team giving us a decent pitcher.

 

Our step up in pitching ends up being greater than our step down in OF and OF depth.

[mvp 78]

There was a time it was unheard of for teams in contention to even think about trading players who are doing well at the deadline.

 

I'm not sure that has changed, actually. There aren't many examples. I don't think Vaz is a great example because last year's team had shaky playoff prospects at best.

 

That's not what you guys were saying though?

[Hugh2]

Oh I agree with the sentiment here, I think we go for it this year, but I don’t think we see any big ticket acquisition, we will see a very Bloom like move. I think he adds a starter and an infield bat and hopes better health pushes them to greatness. It almost worked for Bloom in 2021.

 

Heck, I wouldn’t mind the pitching equivalent (in value) to Schwarber.. maybe he will surprise me, but they probably get some guy with. 4.5-5 era who can throw innings who their scouting department says can be better with a tweak.

 

But seeing what Giolito cost, I would not be opposed to a slightly better upgrade than that

[Hugh2]

There was a time it was unheard of for teams in contention to even think about trading players who are doing well at the deadline.

 

I'm not sure that has changed, actually. There aren't many examples. I don't think Vaz is a great example because last year's team had shaky playoff prospects at best.

 

 

This team, if fully healthy, is much better than last years IMO

[mvp 78]

This team, if fully healthy, is much better than last years IMO

 

They aren't fully healthy though?

[Old Red]

We just traded the great Kike!

 

Whatchutalkinbout?

 

You can call it a trade if you want to, but Kike was shipped out of town, because he sucked so bad, and had gotten beaten out by Reyes, and Chang. Two years in a row of sucking with the bat was even too much for Cora to justify keeping him around. How low did he go? I repeat Kike got beat out by Reyes.

[Dipre]

They aren't fully healthy though?

 

And have not been all season, and likely won't be.

[Dipre]

You can call it a trade if you want to, but Kike was shipped out of town, because he sucked so bad, and had gotten beaten out by Reyes, and Chang. Two years in a row of sucking with the bat was even too much for Cora to justify keeping him around. How low did he go? I repeat Kike got beat out by Reyes.

 

He was clearly joking.

[moonslav59]

They aren't fully healthy though?

 

They are better unhealthy, too.

[moonslav59]

He was clearly joking.

 

Indeed.

 

I'm glad they chose Reyes and Duvall over Kike.

 

(We don't need CF defense, like we thought we did, before Duran morphed from "Butterfly Man" to "Moth Man."

 

[Bellhorn04]

That's not what you guys were saying though?

 

I never said our chances were good. I just understood not selling off when you're 3 games out and have guys coming back.

[Bellhorn04]

They aren't fully healthy though?

 

No team is.

[mvp 78]

No team is.

 

Other teams have 3 starting pitchers, Opening Day C and the starting SS out?

[Bellhorn04]

Other teams have 3 starting pitchers, Opening Day C and the starting SS out?

 

Check out the Yankees and Rays injuries this year.

[mvp 78]

Check out the Yankees and Rays injuries this year.

 

Ewww, I hate those two teams the most and actively wish them harm. Why would I check them out?

[Bellhorn04]

Ewww, I hate those two teams the most and actively wish them harm. Why would I check them out?

 

Just to confirm they've been harmed and take pleasure in it, I guess.

[Maxbialystock]

I’m not close to anointing him at anything. I’ve said his totality of moves grades to about a B- to C. Considering the budgets he has been handed and all the holes needed to be filled, he hasn’t done as badly as many seem to think he did, before last winter.

 

People remember trading away Renfroe but not the brilliant Renfroe signing for $3M.

They remember the s***** Beni trade but forget to look closely at what Beni production post trade and give time for the returns to be graded- like Winckowski.

They forget moves like getting Pivetta for 2 washed up RP’ers, finding decent but cheap players like Arroyo, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Whitlock, Bernardino and many more. Sure, he swung and missed on a lot of other low cost additions, but you get what you pay for and he did okay on this.

The Story signing looks worse with every day he misses. The Barnes extension was awful. The Richards and Kluber signings hurt badly, but he also signed Wacha, Hill, Strahm and a few others that more than earned their pay checks.

 

It’s too early to grade out Bloom. For all we know, Yoshida could crash and Burn. The Devers extension could explode before it even kicks in.

 

To me, based on speculation and conjecture, along with some results already in the books, I’d give Bloom this…

 

B+ or A- on farm building in 3.5 yrs, counting one list year of prospect development.

 

B for getting the budget under control, despite the fears that Story might be deadwood.

 

C+ on roster additions and subtractions beyond the draft and IFAs.

 

First and foremost, I am completely incapable of that kind of analysis of Bloom. I just don't know enough, which means I'm too old and too lazy to do the research.

 

Second, however, I prefer to look at the big picture, which in this case must include John Henry. We know he not only picked Bloom, but has probably given him guidance on how much to spend and where/how. As you have already pointed out, historically the Sox have not been good at developing pitching and therefore have relied on buying them or trading for them. That included some large contracts, most recently to/for Price and Sale. I think JH has told Bloom, "never again."

 

As you have convincingly argued, that's a tough row to hoe for Chaim Bloom. Did I forget to mention that this year's Sox salaries are ranked 15th in MLB--the lowest in the John Henry era and probably the lowest in 40 years or more?

 

Therefore, third, I am fine with what Bloom has done and continues to do. I don't disagree he's made mistakes, but, especially in comparison to DD who inherited both a plethora of great talent, but also a free hand in buying arms, bats, you name it, I think his task has been infinitely more difficult than any of his recent predecessors.

[Dipre]

First and foremost, I am completely incapable of that kind of analysis of Bloom. I just don't know enough, which means I'm too old and too lazy to do the research.

 

Second, however, I prefer to look at the big picture, which in this case must include John Henry. We know he not only picked Bloom, but has probably given him guidance on how much to spend and where/how. As you have already pointed out, historically the Sox have not been good at developing pitching and therefore have relied on buying them or trading for them. That included some large contracts, most recently to/for Price and Sale. I think JH has told Bloom, "never again."

 

As you have convincingly argued, that's a tough row to hoe for Chaim Bloom. Did I forget to mention that this year's Sox salaries are ranked 15th in MLB--the lowest in the John Henry era and probably the lowest in 40 years or more?

Therefore, third, I am fine with what Bloom has done and continues to do. I don't disagree he's made mistakes, but, especially in comparison to DD who inherited both a plethora of great talent, but also a free hand in buying arms, bats, you name it, I think his task has been infinitely more difficult than any of his recent predecessors.

 

An important distinction.

[Maxbialystock]

I’m not close to anointing him at anything. I’ve said his totality of moves grades to about a B- to C. Considering the budgets he has been handed and all the holes needed to be filled, he hasn’t done as badly as many seem to think he did, before last winter.

 

People remember trading away Renfroe but not the brilliant Renfroe signing for $3M.

They remember the s***** Beni trade but forget to look closely at what Beni production post trade and give time for the returns to be graded- like Winckowski.

They forget moves like getting Pivetta for 2 washed up RP’ers, finding decent but cheap players like Arroyo, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Whitlock, Bernardino and many more. Sure, he swung and missed on a lot of other low cost additions, but you get what you pay for and he did okay on this.

The Story signing looks worse with every day he misses. The Barnes extension was awful. The Richards and Kluber signings hurt badly, but he also signed Wacha, Hill, Strahm and a few others that more than earned their pay checks.

 

It’s too early to grade out Bloom. For all we know, Yoshida could crash and Burn. The Devers extension could explode before it even kicks in.

 

To me, based on speculation and conjecture, along with some results already in the books, I’d give Bloom this…

 

B+ or A- on farm building in 3.5 yrs, counting one list year of prospect development.

 

B for getting the budget under control, despite the fears that Story might be deadwood.

 

C+ on roster additions and subtractions beyond the draft and IFAs.

 

First and foremost, I am completely incapable of that kind of analysis of Bloom. I just don't know enough, which means I'm too old and too lazy to do the research.

 

Second, however, I prefer to look at the big picture, which in this case must include John Henry. We know he not only picked Bloom, but has probably given him guidance on how much to spend and where/how. As you have already pointed out, historically the Sox have not been good at developing pitching and therefore have relied on buying them or trading for them. That included some large contracts, most recently to/for Price and Sale. I think JH has told Bloom, "never again."

 

I think you will agree that's a tough row to hoe for Chaim Bloom. Did I forget to mention that this year's Sox salaries are ranked 15th in MLB--the lowest in the John Henry era and probably the lowest in 40 years or more?

 

Therefore, third, I am fine with what Bloom has done and continues to do. I don't disagree he's made mistakes, but, especially in comparison to DD who inherited both a plethora of great talent and a free hand in buying arms, bats, you name it, I think his task has been infinitely more difficult than any of his recent predecessors.

[moonslav59]

First and foremost, I am completely incapable of that kind of analysis of Bloom. I just don't know enough, which means I'm too old and too lazy to do the research.

 

Second, however, I prefer to look at the big picture, which in this case must include John Henry. We know he not only picked Bloom, but has probably given him guidance on how much to spend and where/how. As you have already pointed out, historically the Sox have not been good at developing pitching and therefore have relied on buying them or trading for them. That included some large contracts, most recently to/for Price and Sale. I think JH has told Bloom, "never again."

 

As you have convincingly argued, that's a tough row to hoe for Chaim Bloom. Did I forget to mention that this year's Sox salaries are ranked 15th in MLB--the lowest in the John Henry era and probably the lowest in 40 years or more?

 

Therefore, third, I am fine with what Bloom has done and continues to do. I don't disagree he's made mistakes, but, especially in comparison to DD who inherited both a plethora of great talent, but also a free hand in buying arms, bats, you name it, I think his task has been infinitely more difficult than any of his recent predecessors.

 

I’m fine with what Bloom has done, overall. I also think he’s doing or trying to do what he was told to do. The budget and lack of farm infusion made his big club building extremely difficult.

 

I like the direction we seem to be headed in. A lot is still to be determined, but the efforts are there.

[moonslav59]

Going just by bWAR: the major Bloom trades, not counting financial costs:

 

(Only controlled years counted)

 

8.2 Verdugo (3.5 years w 1.5 to go)

2.1 Wong (112 gms in 3 yrs with several years more to go)

-0.6 Downs (not on team, anymore)

for

3.6 Betts (1 yr 2020)

1.4 Price (3 yrs- 2 played)

_________________________

 

0.7 Winckowski (2 yrs with many more to go)

-0.8 Cordero (no longer on team)

(GGambrell and L de la Rosa TBD)

for

5.1 Benintendi (2 yrs)

________________________

 

2.7 Renfroe (2022)

for

-0.4 JBJ (2022)

________________________

 

-0.2 Workman (rental)

-0.6 Hembree (rental)

for

6.9 Pivetta (1+ Yrs remaining)

-1.0 Seabold (2 yrs)

_______________________

 

??? Aldo Ramirez

for

1.4 Schwarber (rental)

 

_____________________

 

Nothing

for

0.2 Ottavino (2021)

 

Am I missing any big trades?

 

[mvp 78]

@FishOnFirst

Successful hip surgery for Matt Barnes

[Dojji]

@FishOnFirst

Successful hip surgery for Matt Barnes

 

Happy to hear that. Not that I want him back or anything but at least that should mean a better life after baseball.

[moonslav59]

Anybody still want Bloom fired, or are we just keeping Swihart’s ghost alive?