Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

I never hear Bloom, Kennedy, or JH talk about any of this stuff like reset, go all in, cliffs, or rebuild.

 

Sept. 27, 2019, when Red Sox principal owner John Henry said, “This year (2020) we need to be under the CBT. That was something we’ve known for more than a year now.”

[moonslav59]

“Going back to February, I think I said then and would say now that the luxury tax, the CBT limit is a factor, but I think the importance of that has been kind of overplayed in the storyline that has surrounded us this year,” chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom said Monday. “It’s obviously something we monitor. As I said in February, I always felt the depth and the sustainability of the talent-base was a much bigger priority than that. Obviously we have to factor in everything. We have to monitor everything. We just want to make sure we’re using our resources wisely and doing that over a period of time. So it’s certainly something to consider. But I think the growth of the talent base that we can look out for many years and see that we have a chance to have in place is a much bigger factor.” -Chaim Bloom

[Old Red]

So?

 

It’s just your speel, and nothing more, or less than that. I’m not saying your wrong, and I’m not saying your right, but if that was what was going on, or has in the past I’d just like to hear it from someone official.

[Old Red]

Sept. 27, 2019, when Red Sox principal owner John Henry said, “This year (2020) we need to be under the CBT. That was something we’ve known for more than a year now.”

 

Ancient history.

[Old Red]

“Going back to February, I think I said then and would say now that the luxury tax, the CBT limit is a factor, but I think the importance of that has been kind of overplayed in the storyline that has surrounded us this year,” chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom said Monday. “It’s obviously something we monitor. As I said in February, I always felt the depth and the sustainability of the talent-base was a much bigger priority than that. Obviously we have to factor in everything. We have to monitor everything. We just want to make sure we’re using our resources wisely and doing that over a period of time. So it’s certainly something to consider. But I think the growth of the talent base that we can look out for many years and see that we have a chance to have in place is a much bigger factor.” -Chaim Bloom

 

Reset, cliff, go all in, and no rebuild either.

[moonslav59]

Reset, cliff, go all in, and no rebuild either.

 

Well, JH said it and talking about "the CBT limit" is about resetting.

 

Of course, they never say "cliff," and they often mask the word "rebuild" with more fan-friendly language, or they just avoid saying anything like it.

 

I guess you might feel like 2020 was not a rebuild year, because nobody said it.

 

Bloom went ont osay...

 

“We have a lot of decisions ahead of us and a lot of time ahead of us to see how we might best use our resources in the future,” Bloom said. “But we know there is a cost to being over that line. It is something you factor in. It’s something that does impact the organization. So maintaining flexibility allows you to be more opportunistic. And we want to be able to take advantage of opportunities.”

 

Sounds like re-setting is something they think and plan for.

[moonslav59]

“…this focus on CBT resides with the media far more than it does within the Sox. I think every team probably wants to reset at least once every three years — that’s sort of been the history — but just this week . . . I reminded baseball ops that we are focused on competitiveness over the next 5 years over and above resetting to which they said, ‘That’s exactly how we’ve been approaching it.’

 

– John Henry

[Old Red]

Well, JH said it and talking about "the CBT limit" is about resetting.

 

Of course, they never say "cliff," and they often mask the word "rebuild" with more fan-friendly language, or they just avoid saying anything like it.

 

I guess you might feel like 2020 was not a rebuild year, because nobody said it.

 

Bloom went ont osay...

 

“We have a lot of decisions ahead of us and a lot of time ahead of us to see how we might best use our resources in the future,” Bloom said. “But we know there is a cost to being over that line. It is something you factor in. It’s something that does impact the organization. So maintaining flexibility allows you to be more opportunistic. And we want to be able to take advantage of opportunities.”

 

Sounds like re-setting is something they think and plan for.

 

I’m really not trying to bust your balls, but just wondering if you had an inside connection.

[moonslav59]

I’m really not trying to bust your balls, but just wondering if you had an inside connection.

 

If Google is an inside connection, then maybe.

 

They have mentioned resetting and also words that clearly mean it is a priority, at times.

 

They have not said "cliff," but I did not Google that.

 

They have said things like the team needs to focus on rebuilding the farm, which we can all interpret differently, but I'm not sure they said that, too often, between 2016 and 2018.

 

Sometimes, what is not said, can be telling, but of course that's just speculation.

[Old Red]

It officially over! Any hopes of the Red Sox to get get back to 500 were dashed last night with their 14th loss off the season to the Jays. They will finish the 2022 season as a LOSING team. They lost on opening day, and the last time this team was above 500 was Aug 2, so they will end up not only as a losing team, but last place in the Div as well. Sitting at the kiddie table should be embarrassing, and is. On paper this was not bad a team, but you don’t play this game on paper. Injuries, and some key players not playing up to expectations were a big reason this team is where they are at, and there is plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom, and that is management, and players alike, so on to the off season, which should be something to watch, and then on to 2023. This off season will be a big test to see how good Bloom is, or not. I’m going with the not. Edited October 1, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

It officially over! Any hopes of the Red Sox to get get back to 500 were dashed last night with their 14th loss off the season to the Jays. They will finish the 2022 season as a LOSING team. They lost on opening day, and the last time this team was above 500 was Aug 2, so they will end up not only as a losing team, but last place in the Div as well. Sitting at the kiddie table should be embarrassing, and is. On paper this was not bad a team, but you don’t play this game on paper. Injuries, and some key players not playing up to expectations were a big reason this team is where they are at, and there is plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom, and that is management, and players alike, so on to the off season, which should be something to watch, and then on to 2023. This off season will be a big test to see how good Bloom is, or not. I’m going with the not.

 

Of course, I disagree with the last sentence, but the rest was a fine summary of where we are at.

 

I think it is hard to know how well or poorly Bloom will do this winter, especially if upper management changes the priorities to some extent. Bloom's first year was a massive budget-cutting winter. That will not happen, this coming winter. Bloom's second winter saw an uptick in spending, but with 15-20+ slots on the 40 needing serious upgrading and a spending budget of about $40M, Bloom missed on a few of his few key signings.

 

Richards: miss

M Perez: miss (but the guy is now showing he can pitch)

Kike: was well worth the $7M x 2

Marwin and other $2-4M paid players were mostly busts, except for Renfroe.

The Beni & Ottavino trades were made for the future with hopes for some present help.

 

This past winter looked like a repeat of the 2021 winter, until suddenly we signed Story in late March. However, the major additions made, this year, with the exception of JBJ & Paxton did better than those of 2021, although the W-L record did not reflect this.

Wacha and Hill did way better than Richards and Perez and cost less.

Paxton was more about the future, but he gave us nothing, this year, and now the option looks in doubt.

The big splash Story signing was marred by injury and left the grade incomplete.

Some minor additions have turned out to be the big success stories for 2022: Schreiber & Refsnyder, although the latter's sample size is rather small.

Strahm, Diekman and Robles, combined, did not help the pen-which turned out to be one of our major weak areas.

 

In season moves have been Bloom's best area, IMO. The minor sell-off in 2020 brought us Pivetta and some prospects with decent or dimming outlooks. The 2021 moves brought us Schwarber, Robles, Davis, Iggy and Shaw, who helped get us over the hump and into the playoffs. While this year's moves were widely criticized as not going far enough for the here and now, or not dumping enough to get under the tax line, the moves not only improved the 2022 team that was going nowhere, quickly, they helped our future even more. Not many GM can pull that off.

McGuire for Diekman & his remaining $4M for 2023 was a great move. We will actually be paid to improve our catching position in 2023 and beyond.

Pham and Hosmer were very low cost additions for Groome & Northcut. (We also added 2 prospects: Max Ferguson who is top 10 in BBs and SBs & Cory Rosier)

Both slightly improve our depth in 2 key areas.

I might be wearing rose-colored glasses, but it's hard not to be impressed with the minor league numbers of Enmanuel Valdez and Wilyer Abreu, the two prospects received for Vazquez.

Valdez (500 PAs) .296 28 107 with 65 XBHs and a .918 OPS (54 Hrs in last 865 PAs)

Abreu (457 PAs) .247 19 73 but led the minors in BBs with 114 (.399 OBP) plus 31 SBs with just 3 CS (.834 OPS)

 

Of course, all the prospects Bloom had hoarded will not produce at the ML level, but he has greatly improved our chances at some meaningful farm help in the near and extended future. That was one area he was told to improve, and he has at least made a valiant effort.

 

It looks like some positive farm infusions are beginning, most notably with Bello & Casas, but I do think some that stumbled out of the gate, will improve, next year (Wong, Crawford, German.) Guys like Duran, Winckowski, Seabold and Downs look highly doubtful, but maybe one turns it around in the minors and repositions himself as a hopeful. Post prospects like Whitlock, Houck, Dalbec and others offer a mixed bag of hopefuls had hopes dashed or nearly dashed.

 

Lets see what Bloom can do, this winter. When I look at the totality of his moves, I'm not sure why so many are so pessimistic, but certainly I may be too optimistic, as well. His smaller moves, like Arroyo, Pivetta, Whitlock, Schreiber, McGuire and Refsnyder seem to his strong area, but with recent signings like Wacha, Hill and Story looking better than those in 2021, I'm hopeful he will connect, this winter. He needs to hit on 75% or more of his significant additions and cannot repeat a trade like JBJ.

 

Will he trade some prospects?

 

Will he be forced to reset the tax?

 

Will he spend the $60+M on 3-4 players or dilute the money over 5-7 players. (I'm not sure the roster crunch will allow 7 without a 3 for 1 type trade being involved.)

 

It's the "flashpoint winter" for Bloom.

 

[oldtimer]

Of course, I disagree with the last sentence, but the rest was a fine summary of where we are at.

 

I think it is hard to know how well or poorly Bloom will do this winter, especially if upper management changes the priorities to some extent. Bloom's first year was a massive budget-cutting winter. That will not happen, this coming winter. Bloom's second winter saw an uptick in spending, but with 15-20+ slots on the 40 needing serious upgrading and a spending budget of about $40M, Bloom missed on a few of his few key signings.

 

Richards: miss

M Perez: miss (but the guy is now showing he can pitch)

Kike: was well worth the $7M x 2

Marwin and other $2-4M paid players were mostly busts, except for Renfroe.

The Beni & Ottavino trades were made for the future with hopes for some present help.

 

This past winter looked like a repeat of the 2021 winter, until suddenly we signed Story in late March. However, the major additions made, this year, with the exception of JBJ & Paxton did better than those of 2021, although the W-L record did not reflect this.

Wacha and Hill did way better than Richards and Perez and cost less.

Paxton was more about the future, but he gave us nothing, this year, and now the option looks in doubt.

The big splash Story signing was marred by injury and left the grade incomplete.

Some minor additions have turned out to be the big success stories for 2022: Schreiber & Refsnyder, although the latter's sample size is rather small.

Strahm, Diekman and Robles, combined, did not help the pen-which turned out to be one of our major weak areas.

 

In season moves have been Bloom's best area, IMO. The minor sell-off in 2020 brought us Pivetta and some prospects with decent or dimming outlooks. The 2021 moves brought us Schwarber, Robles, Davis, Iggy and Shaw, who helped get us over the hump and into the playoffs. While this year's moves were widely criticized as not going far enough for the here and now, or not dumping enough to get under the tax line, the moves not only improved the 2022 team that was going nowhere, quickly, they helped our future even more. Not many GM can pull that off.

McGuire for Diekman & his remaining $4M for 2023 was a great move. We will actually be paid to improve our catching position in 2023 and beyond.

Pham and Hosmer were very low cost additions for Groome & Northcut. (We also added 2 prospects: Max Ferguson who is top 10 in BBs and SBs & Cory Rosier)

Both slightly improve our depth in 2 key areas.

I might be wearing rose-colored glasses, but it's hard not to be impressed with the minor league numbers of Enmanuel Valdez and Wilyer Abreu, the two prospects received for Vazquez.

Valdez (500 PAs) .296 28 107 with 65 XBHs and a .918 OPS (54 Hrs in last 865 PAs)

Abreu (457 PAs) .247 19 73 but led the minors in BBs with 114 (.399 OBP) plus 31 SBs with just 3 CS (.834 OPS)

 

Of course, all the prospects Bloom had hoarded will not produce at the ML level, but he has greatly improved our chances at some meaningful farm help in the near and extended future. That was one area he was told to improve, and he has at least made a valiant effort.

 

It looks like some positive farm infusions are beginning, most notably with Bello & Casas, but I do think some that stumbled out of the gate, will improve, next year (Wong, Crawford, German.) Guys like Duran, Winckowski, Seabold and Downs look highly doubtful, but maybe one turns it around in the minors and repositions himself as a hopeful. Post prospects like Whitlock, Houck, Dalbec and others offer a mixed bag of hopefuls had hopes dashed or nearly dashed.

 

Lets see what Bloom can do, this winter. When I look at the totality of his moves, I'm not sure why so many are so pessimistic, but certainly I may be too optimistic, as well. His smaller moves, like Arroyo, Pivetta, Whitlock, Schreiber, McGuire and Refsnyder seem to his strong area, but with recent signings like Wacha, Hill and Story looking better than those in 2021, I'm hopeful he will connect, this winter. He needs to hit on 75% or more of his significant additions and cannot repeat a trade like JBJ.

 

Will he trade some prospects?

 

Will he be forced to reset the tax?

 

Will he spend the $60+M on 3-4 players or dilute the money over 5-7 players. (I'm not sure the roster crunch will allow 7 without a 3 for 1 type trade being involved.)

 

It's the "flashpoint winter" for Bloom.

 

I believe the pessimism stems from our last place finish, where we were not competitive with the AL East teams. Others got better while we were worse. Yes we had injuries but so did other teams. Rather than debate what happened last year, we need to be looking at the possibilities of making a major turnaround inn 2023. We still are carrying Sale and people rightly are questioning the probability of him returning to anything near Ace level. We will have Bello and Casas as hopeful additions, but we will lose JD and possibly Bogey along with potential loss of Eovaldi and Wacha. It leaves Bloom with a lot to do in the starting pitching area. There is a depth need in thee RP area and some position player areas. Possibly SS, RF, DH. There is a lot to do and we can't just go with average players and expect to gain competitiveness, we need impact players and that means spending.

 

Since we had a real chance of resetting in 2022 and didn't, now the question is whether JH will ask Bloom to reset in 2023, limiting the money available to make major acquisitions. Bloom will need to be a miracle man to return us to real contention in 2023. I would be satisfied if we could at least see a significant improvement with a plan to get us back to top tier in 2024 or 2025.

[moonslav59]

I believe the pessimism stems from our last place finish, where we were not competitive with the AL East teams. Others got better while we were worse. Yes we had injuries but so did other teams. Rather than debate what happened last year, we need to be looking at the possibilities of making a major turnaround inn 2023. We still are carrying Sale and people rightly are questioning the probability of him returning to anything near Ace level. We will have Bello and Casas as hopeful additions, but we will lose JD and possibly Bogey along with potential loss of Eovaldi and Wacha. It leaves Bloom with a lot to do in the starting pitching area. There is a depth need in thee RP area and some position player areas. Possibly SS, RF, DH. There is a lot to do and we can't just go with average players and expect to gain competitiveness, we need impact players and that means spending.

 

Since we had a real chance of resetting in 2022 and didn't, now the question is whether JH will ask Bloom to reset in 2023, limiting the money available to make major acquisitions. Bloom will need to be a miracle man to return us to real contention in 2023. I would be satisfied if we could at least see a significant improvement with a plan to get us back to top tier in 2024 or 2025.

 

The winter is long enough to debate both 2022 and 2023, IMO. Of course, talking about 2023 will be more interesting and less of a bummer, I hope.

 

On 2022, yes all teams have injuries, but ours seemed to all happen at the same time, and it's hard for any GM to have 4 capable back-up SP'ers on the 40. That's what we needed for a stretch, while needed 2-3 for much of the remainder of the season. The loss of our RH'd hitting and defensive whiz of a CF'er hurt, too. Injuries are certainly not the whole story. Many of our returning vets declined or greatly declined.

 

As for 2023, we need to improve or upgrade at so many positions, it's hard to keep one's head from spinning. It's likely we will have to settle on slight improvements at some positions while trying to greatly upgrade others. I doubt the budget will be big enough to upgrade 7+ positions by adding players. I doubt the plan is to trade several prospects, like we did from 2016-2018. either, so with a limited budget and a long term priority being firmly in place, it won't be easy to get to a highly competitive spot in 2023. Not impossible- but very difficult.

 

Here is one reason I am optimistic, today, anyway: I do think we have slightly improved our outlook at several positions, already. Maybe not bu enough to say, "WOW!" but a good chance to see improvement over 2022.

 

Catcher: I like McGuire/Wong better than Vaz/Plawecki. I know many disagree, and that is fine, but we are also cutting salary here by over $5M. (That can be used elsewhere.)

 

1B: I like Casas/Hosmer/Dalbec better than Dalbec/Cordero. This is not close. This is also a min salary position, when other teams spend $20+M at 1B. (More $ for elsewhere- see a theme here?)

 

2B: I expect Story to play more and hit better. I don't think that is unreasonable. (This is a costly position that we are b asically locked into.)

 

3B: I expect Devers to do better in 2023 and continue his improved defense.

 

LF: If we bring Pham back, I like Dugo/Pham better than Dugo/Duran. Even with no Pham we could be better by just seeing less of Duran.

 

CF: I see a major improvement here, if Kike can stay healthy.

 

RF: We can't get much worse. If we keep Pham, it allows us to use Dugo in RF when refsnyder does not play. I know many doubt Refsnyder's skills, but Dugo/Ref> JBJ.

 

The two positions in serious doubt- are SS and DH, but as I mentioned, we are not spending big anywhere else, except 2B. Our DH OPs is about .750, this year, and even if we spend nothing on DH, we may be able to cobble together a .750+ OPS by rotating and platooning Hosmer, Pham, Dalbec, Ref, Cordero or even E Valdez at DH. Not all can be on the 26, b ut between all of them, I don 't think .750 is all that bad. If we bring Bogey back or replace him without losing too much ground and add a RF'er or RF/DH type, we should be able to gain enough at RF/DH to compensate for a minor loss (hopefully just minor at worst) at SS.

 

So, hopefully a gain on offense and defense.

 

The pitching is the area that is so in doubt, I have to think we need major upgrades here, and other than SS and RF, all or our remaining resources need to be focused here. I think we need an ace, a closer and a solid SP/RP (depending on where Houck and Whit are slotted) or two solid SPers and 2 solid RP'ers- MINIMUM.

 

It will likely take one significant trade, that I'm not sure we do plus major spending on the staff.

 

I like Bello and Pivetta.

I like Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber and even Barnes, but that is just 5 arms. Adding just 4-5 solid arms may still not be enough, but with my expected budget and belief that we might not want to trade top prospects, I'm not sure it's doable. (There goes my optimism!)

 

[notin]

SS - While I like Bogaerts, I don’t think he’s coming back, and I also think that might be the right long term move. The Sox could try for a big name free agent like Correa, Cora’s fellow Puerto Rican countryman, and hope he is amenable to an eventual position change. They also might take on a lesser free agent like Jean Segura. Or trade for a contract another team wants to move, with the obvious candidates being Ha-Seong Kim of San Diego (his 2 years $15mill left isn’t that cumbersome, but the Padres have two $300 mill contracts plus just took on Juan Soto plus that team has shortstops playing nearly every position already so they really don’t need him), Paul DeJong (1 yr $9.2mill with 2 options, good fielder, bad hitter but does have good Fenway power), and Nick Ahmed (1yr $10.4mill, defensive wizard and Matt Barnes former college teammate, but far, far too injury-prone lately).

[notin]

The winter is long enough to debate both 2022 and 2023, IMO. Of course, talking about 2023 will be more interesting and less of a bummer, I hope.

 

On 2022, yes all teams have injuries, but ours seemed to all happen at the same time, and it's hard for any GM to have 4 capable back-up SP'ers on the 40. That's what we needed for a stretch, while needed 2-3 for much of the remainder of the season. The loss of our RH'd hitting and defensive whiz of a CF'er hurt, too. Injuries are certainly not the whole story. Many of our returning vets declined or greatly declined.

 

As for 2023, we need to improve or upgrade at so many positions, it's hard to keep one's head from spinning. It's likely we will have to settle on slight improvements at some positions while trying to greatly upgrade others. I doubt the budget will be big enough to upgrade 7+ positions by adding players. I doubt the plan is to trade several prospects, like we did from 2016-2018. either, so with a limited budget and a long term priority being firmly in place, it won't be easy to get to a highly competitive spot in 2023. Not impossible- but very difficult.

 

Here is one reason I am optimistic, today, anyway: I do think we have slightly improved our outlook at several positions, already. Maybe not bu enough to say, "WOW!" but a good chance to see improvement over 2022.

 

Catcher: I like McGuire/Wong better than Vaz/Plawecki. I know many disagree, and that is fine, but we are also cutting salary here by over $5M. (That can be used elsewhere.)

 

1B: I like Casas/Hosmer/Dalbec better than Dalbec/Cordero. This is not close. This is also a min salary position, when other teams spend $20+M at 1B. (More $ for elsewhere- see a theme here?)

 

2B: I expect Story to play more and hit better. I don't think that is unreasonable. (This is a costly position that we are b asically locked into.)

 

3B: I expect Devers to do better in 2023 and continue his improved defense.

 

LF: If we bring Pham back, I like Dugo/Pham better than Dugo/Duran. Even with no Pham we could be better by just seeing less of Duran.

 

CF: I see a major improvement here, if Kike can stay healthy.

 

RF: We can't get much worse. If we keep Pham, it allows us to use Dugo in RF when refsnyder does not play. I know many doubt Refsnyder's skills, but Dugo/Ref> JBJ.

 

The two positions in serious doubt- are SS and DH, but as I mentioned, we are not spending big anywhere else, except 2B. Our DH OPs is about .750, this year, and even if we spend nothing on DH, we may be able to cobble together a .750+ OPS by rotating and platooning Hosmer, Pham, Dalbec, Ref, Cordero or even E Valdez at DH. Not all can be on the 26, b ut between all of them, I don 't think .750 is all that bad. If we bring Bogey back or replace him without losing too much ground and add a RF'er or RF/DH type, we should be able to gain enough at RF/DH to compensate for a minor loss (hopefully just minor at worst) at SS.

 

So, hopefully a gain on offense and defense.

 

The pitching is the area that is so in doubt, I have to think we need major upgrades here, and other than SS and RF, all or our remaining resources need to be focused here. I think we need an ace, a closer and a solid SP/RP (depending on where Houck and Whit are slotted) or two solid SPers and 2 solid RP'ers- MINIMUM.

 

It will likely take one significant trade, that I'm not sure we do plus major spending on the staff.

 

I like Bello and Pivetta.

I like Whitlock, Houck, Schreiber and even Barnes, but that is just 5 arms. Adding just 4-5 solid arms may still not be enough, but with my expected budget and belief that we might not want to trade top prospects, I'm not sure it's doable. (There goes my optimism!)

 

 

I don’t think the Sox have any plans to platoon Verdugo. And they shouldn’t…

[notin]

One bat I hope the Sox can look into for DH/OF is Miami’s Garrett Cooper. The guy is a pure hitter…

[moonslav59]

I don’t think the Sox have any plans to platoon Verdugo. And they shouldn’t…

 

Not a platoon. He plays FT, but in LF when Ref plays RF or RF when Pham plays LF, which doesn't quite work out all that well, since both bat RH'd.

 

Career splits:

 

v RHPs

.771 Pham (.668 in '22)

.637 Ref (.812 in '22)

 

v LHPs

.845 Pham (.800 in '22)

.728 Ref (1.005 in '22)

 

Like I said, I'm really hoping we add a solid FT RF'er, but if we don't I still see a slight improvement over 2022 in RF and LF. Not a sure bet.

 

[moonslav59]

SS - While I like Bogaerts, I don’t think he’s coming back, and I also think that might be the right long term move. The Sox could try for a big name free agent like Correa, Cora’s fellow Puerto Rican countryman, and hope he is amenable to an eventual position change. They also might take on a lesser free agent like Jean Segura. Or trade for a contract another team wants to move, with the obvious candidates being Ha-Seong Kim of San Diego (his 2 years $15mill left isn’t that cumbersome, but the Padres have two $300 mill contracts plus just took on Juan Soto plus that team has shortstops playing nearly every position already so they really don’t need him), Paul DeJong (1 yr $9.2mill with 2 options, good fielder, bad hitter but does have good Fenway power), and Nick Ahmed (1yr $10.4mill, defensive wizard and Matt Barnes former college teammate, but far, far too injury-prone lately).

 

What are the chances we take a step down at SS, but not two steps by signing Swanson or T Anderson?

 

With the money "saved," we upgrade more at RF and pitching.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What are the chances we take a step down at SS, but not two steps by signing Swanson or T Anderson?

 

With the money "saved," we upgrade more at RF and pitching.

 

If the Sox do sign any $20+ million dollar shortstops, it might mean they'll be dealing Mayer. Personally, I just don't see that happening; top prospects who are future cornerstones when they make the majors -- at minimum wage -- are the keys to a rebuilding team.

 

And the Red Sox are so needy in so many areas that it makes sense for Bloom to hang onto Casas, Mayer, and Rafaela so they don't have to spend resources on 1B, SS and CF longterm. Remember, Kike was re-signed, but for only one year...

[notin]

What are the chances we take a step down at SS, but not two steps by signing Swanson or T Anderson?

 

With the money "saved," we upgrade more at RF and pitching.

 

There is a greater chance of the planet Mars crashing into the Earth in downtown Toledo and then bouncing off and continuing its course into deep space than there is of the White Sox not picking up Tim Anderson’s $12.5 mill option.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox do sign any $20+ million dollar shortstops, it might mean they'll be dealing Mayer. Personally, I just don't see that happening; top prospects who are future cornerstones when they make the majors -- at minimum wage -- are the keys to a rebuilding team.

 

And the Red Sox are so needy in so many areas that it makes sense for Bloom to hang onto Casas, Mayer, and Rafaela so they don't have to spend resources on 1B, SS and CF longterm. Remember, Kike was re-signed, but for only one year...

 

I'm not sure they really think all that much about "blocking" Mayer- maybe some for Rafaela, but since he can play numerous positions, very well, I'm not sure they worry about filling one or two of his positions, either.

 

Maybe Swanson or Anderson would agree to a 1-3 year deal, too.

 

If we are thinking about "blocked prospects," then Yorke, Romero and Paulino might be high on our prospects-to-trade list, but Yorke's stock is a bit lower, now.

 

I could see us thinking Romero & Mayer are duplicate values and choose one to deal, especially if we sign a SS to more than 3 years, but we could always trade someone 2-4 years from now, too, if a logjam develops.

[dgalehouse]

It officially over! Any hopes of the Red Sox to get get back to 500 were dashed last night with their 14th loss off the season to the Jays. They will finish the 2022 season as a LOSING team. They lost on opening day, and the last time this team was above 500 was Aug 2, so they will end up not only as a losing team, but last place in the Div as well. Sitting at the kiddie table should be embarrassing, and is. On paper this was not bad a team, but you don’t play this game on paper. Injuries, and some key players not playing up to expectations were a big reason this team is where they are at, and there is plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom, and that is management, and players alike, so on to the off season, which should be something to watch, and then on to 2023. This off season will be a big test to see how good Bloom is, or not. I’m going with the not.

 

Last night slammed the cellar door shut for this season. No getting out now. Nice job guys.

[Old Red]

What are the chances we take a step down at SS, but not two steps by signing Swanson or T Anderson?

 

With the money "saved," we upgrade more at RF and pitching.

 

Why is everyone just assuming that Story isn’t the SS next year? Nothing has been said from Cora, or Bloom. Story at SS, and Arroyo at 2B would not surprise me at all. It’s not what I would want to see, but it wouldn’t surprise me that would be the plan going into next season if Bogey goes bye, bye.

[moonslav59]

Why is everyone just assuming that Story isn’t the SS next year? Nothing has been said from Cora, or Bloom. Story at SS, and Arroyo at 2B would not surprise me at all. It’s not what I would want to see, but it wouldn’t surprise me that would be the plan going into next season if Bogey goes bye, bye.

 

I am not so sure Story can't play SS, like some here, and if he can and does play SS, next year, one could add Kolten Wong to the one- not two- step down addition that would "save money" over bringing Bogey back, but the step down would have to be made up by someone like Wong, Swanso or Anderson doing well, and by upgrading at least one other position by more than the loss of Bogey.

 

I think Story's D at 2B has been so impressive, many don't want to mess that up.

 

To me, if his arm is okay for SS, I'm all for having superior D at SS over 2B.

[Old Red]

I am not so sure Story can't play SS, like some here, and if he can and does play SS, next year, one could add Kolten Wong to the one- not two- step down addition that would "save money" over bringing Bogey back, but the step down would have to be made up by someone like Wong, Swanso or Anderson doing well, and by upgrading at least one other position by more than the loss of Bogey.

 

I think Story's D at 2B has been so impressive, many don't want to mess that up.

 

To me, if his arm is okay for SS, I'm all for having superior D at SS over 2B.

 

Many don’t want to mess that up are not Cora, and Bloom, and like I said before don’t count out Arroyo as a plan at 2B, which would even save more money.

[moonslav59]

Many don’t want to mess that up are not Cora, and Bloom, and like I said before don’t count out Arroyo as a plan at 2B, which would even save more money.

 

I really like the healthy Arroyo. We'd need a solid plan B, if we go that route, or win the lottery on Judge by going light on replacing Bogey.

[Old Red]

I really like the healthy Arroyo. We'd need a solid plan B, if we go that route, or win the lottery on Judge by going light on replacing Bogey.

 

Agree, and we know the biggest question with Arroyo is him staying on the field. If he could that would save lots of money to spend in other areas.

[moonslav59]

Agree, and we know the biggest question with Arroyo is him staying on the field. If he could that would save lots of money to spend in other areas.

 

One problem with spending elsewhere is that many of the best FAs are SSs.

 

There are precious few solid pitchers without health or long term production issues.

 

Only Judge and Nimmo look like serious upgrades for our OF, and Judge is a pipedream for Sox fans.

 

Maybe we can trade for a salary dump that allows us to add a solid SP'er- like with the Marlins by taking on Garcia's OF salary, or take a huge rsik b y taking on Strasburg's enormous contract in hopes he can stay healthy, while getting them to give us some young talent for the effort.

 

It's a tough call.

[Old Red]

One problem with spending elsewhere is that many of the best FAs are SSs.

 

There are precious few solid pitchers without health or long term production issues.

 

Only Judge and Nimmo look like serious upgrades for our OF, and Judge is a pipedream for Sox fans.

 

Maybe we can trade for a salary dump that allows us to add a solid SP'er- like with the Marlins by taking on Garcia's OF salary, or take a huge rsik b y taking on Strasburg's enormous contract in hopes he can stay healthy, while getting them to give us some young talent for the effort.

 

It's a tough call.

Just one of many tough calls that have to be made this off season.

[notin]

Why is everyone just assuming that Story isn’t the SS next year? Nothing has been said from Cora, or Bloom. Story at SS, and Arroyo at 2B would not surprise me at all. It’s not what I would want to see, but it wouldn’t surprise me that would be the plan going into next season if Bogey goes bye, bye.

 

MVP said he isn’t. That works for me.

 

Actually if his arm situation is real, he probably isn’t a good idea at SS. If he could have it, that would be great. Much easier to find a 2b than a good SS…