Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

That Boston got involved so quickly also suggests something had been worked out, either just in case or other players were involved. Teams don’t throw trades together in minutes. There’s all kinds of contract reviews and approvals involved.

 

I suppose it’s even possible in one of the scenarios Bell was headed to Boston.

Pure conjecture on your part, which I doubt very much was happening.

[Old Red]

Not really worrying about it. Just trying to explain the reasoning.

 

I get the reasoning. I surprised Bloom even parted with Groome.

[moonslav59]

Dalbec showed promise last year with 25 HR and 78 RBI and a .792 OPS. And they weren't expecting Casas to get injured. s*** happens.

 

The whole "100 games" is hype.

 

Were they supposed to replace Bobby Dee after 1 game? (Now, it's 99.)

 

Shaw deserved at least a short look, too.

 

Casas was supposed to be ML ready in April or May.

 

To bash Bloom for not having the foresight to add a 4th ML quality 1Bman to the roster, when your winter spending budget was restricted is not something I can ever agree with.

 

Waiting 40 or 45 games might be an arguable point, but even up until then, Casas was still healthy.

 

To me, the earliest day Bloom could have/should have looked outside the organization was the day we knew Casas would be out for a while (May 25th?), and for all we know, maybe he did hit the phones, but nobody was selling.

 

If my math is right, we went 60 games from the Casas injury to the Hosmer deal.

 

We dumped Shaw, early.

We gave Dalbec as long a look as he got, last year, when he started doing okay in early June, then exploded in early August.

The Cordero at 1B experiment was a disaster, but many expected the Schwarber experiment at 1B to be one, too.

 

I don't give Bloom a complete pass on 1B, but I don't view it as a major blunder, despite the results. He had bigger needs than 1B, last winter and into May.

[moonslav59]

That Boston got involved so quickly also suggests something had been worked out, either just in case or other players were involved. Teams don’t throw trades together in minutes. There’s all kinds of contract reviews and approvals involved.

 

I suppose it’s even possible in one of the scenarios Bell was headed to Boston.

 

Had we been 2-3 games up in the WC, maybe we'd have traded for Mancini & Lopez.

[Old Red]

The whole "100 games" is hype.

 

Were they supposed to replace Bobby Dee after 1 game? (Now, it's 99.)

 

Shaw deserved at least a short look, too.

 

Casas was supposed to be ML ready in April or May.

 

To bash Bloom for not having the foresight to add a 4th ML quality 1Bman to the roster, when your winter spending budget was restricted is not something I can ever agree with.

 

Waiting 40 or 45 games might be an arguable point, but even up until then, Casas was still healthy.

 

To me, the earliest day Bloom could have/should have looked outside the organization was the day we knew Casas would be out for a while (May 25th?), and for all we know, maybe he did hit the phones, but nobody was selling.

 

If my math is right, we went 60 games from the Casas injury to the Hosmer deal.

 

We dumped Shaw, early.

We gave Dalbec as long a look as he got, last year, when he started doing okay in early June, then exploded in early August.

The Cordero at 1B experiment was a disaster, but many expected the Schwarber experiment at 1B to be one, too.

 

I don't give Bloom a complete pass on 1B, but I don't view it as a major blunder, despite the results. He had bigger needs than 1B, last winter and into May.

To not view 1B as a major blunder despite the results is not sound baseball sense to me, and I think most knowledgeable objective observers would agree.

[notin]

Pure conjecture on your part, which I doubt very much was happening.

 

Some absolutely is conjecture. Although Boston being involved earlier is at least supported by the timing.

 

That he talked to no one else about a 1b is supported by nothing…

[Old Red]

Some absolutely is conjecture. Although Boston being involved earlier is at least supported by the timing.

 

That he talked to no one else about a 1b is supported by nothing…

100 games of Bobby D, and Franchy was doing nothing, and as far as your timing goes Bloom said it was something that came up quickly with Hosmer, and nothing else was in the works, so how’s that for support?

[Old Red]

Had we been 2-3 games up in the WC, maybe we'd have traded for Mancini & Lopez.

 

And traded who to get them?

[notin]

100 games of Bobby D, and Franchy was doing nothing, and as far as your timing goes Bloom said it was something that came up quickly with Hosmer, and nothing else was in the works, so how’s that for support?

 

A link or story would be nice…

[Old Red]

A link or story would be nice…

 

I heard him interviewed.

[jung]

100 games of Bobby D, and Franchy was doing nothing, and as far as your timing goes Bloom said it was something that came up quickly with Hosmer, and nothing else was in the works, so how’s that for support?

 

You are correct. That is how it happened Red. SD was caught when Hosmer refused the trade to the Nats and THEY HAD TO MOVE HIM. So what do you do in that situation....needing to move a 1st baseman immediately. You look for the teams that are deficient at 1st base and who comes right to the head of the list.....the Boston Red Sox. That move was prompted by SD's need to move Hosmer, not by the Red Sox trying to do something about their woeful 1st base situation that had festered for two years. Credit Bloom for owning up to it and no more than that.

 

As to whether Hosmer stays here....NO TELLING!

[Old Red]

You are correct. That is how it happened Red. SD was caught when Hosmer refused the trade to the Nats and THEY HAD TO MOVE HIM. So what do you do in that situation....needing to move a 1st baseman immediately. You look for the teams that are deficient at 1st base and who comes right to the head of the list.....the Boston Red Sox. That move was prompted by SD's need to move Hosmer, not by the Red Sox trying to do something about their woeful 1st base situation that had festered for two years. Credit Bloom for owning up to it and no more than that.

 

As to whether Hosmer stays here....NO TELLING!

I think you sum it up pretty well. Bloom didn’t really make the trade the trade found him.

[moonslav59]

A link or story would be nice…

 

Bloom said the deal came together quickly after that, as the Red Sox found a match for a position they’ve long needed an improvement at.

 

https://www.sentinelsource.com/sports/national/red-sox-trade-for-padres-first-baseman-eric-hosmer-in-only-deal-on-deadline-day/article_803c4c88-e115-537c-a229-73372c1af303.html

[Old Red]

Bloom said the deal came together quickly after that, as the Red Sox found a match for a position they’ve long needed an improvement at.

 

https://www.sentinelsource.com/sports/national/red-sox-trade-for-padres-first-baseman-eric-hosmer-in-only-deal-on-deadline-day/article_803c4c88-e115-537c-a229-73372c1af303.html

 

I saw an actual interview, but this will do.

[Old Red]

To me the whole thing with Bloom at the trade deadline is he went half ass. If he did think the team had a shot at the post season he traded his starting catcher for a backup. How many GM’s around the league do you think would have made the trade? He got an OF, which was needed, but a CF/RF would have made more sense. On the other hand if Bloom thought the rest of the season wasn’t worth going for it, and just piss it away, and trade off the rest of the expiring contracts he didn’t do that either, but JH might have had something to do with that, because he doesn’t want the NESN ratings, and the actual attendance at Fenway get any lower.

[harmony]

A link or story would be nice…

Is this it?

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cron got traded?

 

 

Who told you that? I replied to your query of who they could get to play first base with four names, and noted three were moved; those three were Santana, Mancini and Bell. All are now playing on new teams.

 

It's too bad Shaw batted zero, Casas got hurt, Dalbec barely made contact at the plate, and Franchy barely made contact with the ball, his glove and the base when playing the field.

 

It's worse when the guy in charge of a major market team lets it go for 100 games and only does something about it when a team literally has to give him a first baseman.

[moonslav59]

Who told you that? I replied to your query of who they could get to play first base with four names, and noted three were moved; those three were Santana, Mancini and Bell. All are now playing on new teams.

 

It's too bad Shaw batted zero, Casas got hurt, Dalbec barely made contact at the plate, and Franchy barely made contact with the ball, his glove and the base when playing the field.

 

It's worse when the guy in charge of a major market team lets it go for 100 games and only does something about it when a team literally has to give him a first baseman.

 

It's not easy to get team to trade in May, but it can be done, if desperate enough. Bloom did let it go too long, but I will say that Dalbec had a .595 OPS on June 8th of 2021, and was still at .648 on August 5th. Bloom/Cora were praised for sticking with him. as Dalbec was essential to our offense after August 5th. That was about 100 games into the season, too.

 

I'm not trying to paint this season's 1B as some sort of success story: clearly it was not. I'm just saying the winter/spring plan was sound. We had a career .813 1Bman returning and a seemingly decent back-up in Shaw, as well as out top prospect, who was ML ready of very near so waiting in the wings. Dalbec and Shaw sucked, and Casas got hurt in the end of May. Waiting 100 games did not work, this year, like it did last year, and our 1B play was a big reason we were on the outside looking in at the deadline.

 

That being said, I don't fault Bloom for the initial plan for 1B. I don't fault him and Cora for giving Dalbec and Shaw a look-see. When Casas got hurt, one can make a good argument a trade should have been made, at that time. It's hard to expect a GM to get a deal done in one day, so let's say June 1st. That was game 51. I'm fine with saying Bloom dropped the ball from game 51 to 105 (deadline). Personally, I thought sticking with Dalbec, after seeing what he did in 2021 made some sense, beyong June 1st, but there is a lot of merit to say no to that idea.

 

Trying Cordero was a disaster, but was trying Schwarber the disaster many predicted, last season? This doesn't absolve Bloom/Cora. I'm not trying to argue the moves were justified or successful, but I do think some context is needed to judge the severity of the choices that were made. Hindsight is always 20-20, and who is to say, had we made a trade June 1st, maybe the guy we got would have sucked and we happen to have benched Dalbec right before he was going to get red hot- like last August and September? Of course, we know now, he did not, but at the time, no GM could know the future.

 

It was a mistake, in hindsight. At the times of the choices, one can argue most made sense or some sense.

[Old Red]

It's not easy to get team to trade in May, but it can be done, if desperate enough. Bloom did let it go too long, but I will say that Dalbec had a .595 OPS on June 8th of 2021, and was still at .648 on August 5th. Bloom/Cora were praised for sticking with him. as Dalbec was essential to our offense after August 5th. That was about 100 games into the season, too.

 

I'm not trying to paint this season's 1B as some sort of success story: clearly it was not. I'm just saying the winter/spring plan was sound. We had a career .813 1Bman returning and a seemingly decent back-up in Shaw, as well as out top prospect, who was ML ready of very near so waiting in the wings. Dalbec and Shaw sucked, and Casas got hurt in the end of May. Waiting 100 games did not work, this year, like it did last year, and our 1B play was a big reason we were on the outside looking in at the deadline.

 

That being said, I don't fault Bloom for the initial plan for 1B. I don't fault him and Cora for giving Dalbec and Shaw a look-see. When Casas got hurt, one can make a good argument a trade should have been made, at that time. It's hard to expect a GM to get a deal done in one day, so let's say June 1st. That was game 51. I'm fine with saying Bloom dropped the ball from game 51 to 105 (deadline). Personally, I thought sticking with Dalbec, after seeing what he did in 2021 made some sense, beyong June 1st, but there is a lot of merit to say no to that idea.

 

Trying Cordero was a disaster, but was trying Schwarber the disaster many predicted, last season? This doesn't absolve Bloom/Cora. I'm not trying to argue the moves were justified or successful, but I do think some context is needed to judge the severity of the choices that were made. Hindsight is always 20-20, and who is to say, had we made a trade June 1st, maybe the guy we got would have sucked and we happen to have benched Dalbec right before he was going to get red hot- like last August and September? Of course, we know now, he did not, but at the time, no GM could know the future.

 

It was a mistake, in hindsight. At the times of the choices, one can argue most made sense or some sense.

 

You have kept thinking that both Kike, and Bobby D were going to have comebacks like they did last year, and to keep talking about the plan going into the season at 1B has nothing to do with it. The problem all along it took Bloom way to long to do something. A big difference between this year, and last year too was the Red Sox got off to a lot better start last year, and could afford to wait on someone getting hot.

[vjcsmoke]

I get the reasoning. I surprised Bloom even parted with Groome.

 

I'm not surprised. Bloom didn't draft Groome. Groome was taken in the 1st round of the 2016 draft by the prior regime, Bloom took over in 2019. So he's not a Bloom 'protege'. I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom shuffles all the 'deck chairs' on the Titanic until every single players has been handpicked or brought in by him directly. Seems to have that kind of ego. The question is how long will the Red Sox suffer in the basement until ownership has had enough of Bloom's antics?

 

Keep in mind that Devers is a homegrown player but arrived BEFORE Bloom, starting his Red Sox career in 2017, same is also true of Bogaerts who started with the Red Sox at the tender age of 20 in 2013. So I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom shipped them both off as soon as he finds it convenient.

Edited August 5, 2022 by vjcsmoke

[oldtimer]

I'm not surprised. Bloom didn't draft Groome. Groome was taken in the 1st round of the 2016 draft by the prior regime, Bloom took over in 2019. So he's not a Bloom 'protege'. I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom shuffles all the 'deck chairs' on the Titanic until every single players has been handpicked or brought in by him directly. Seems to have that kind of ego. The question is how long will the Red Sox suffer in the basement until ownership has had enough of Bloom's antics?

 

Keep in mind that Devers is a homegrown player but arrived BEFORE Bloom, starting his Red Sox career in 2017, same is also true of Bogaerts who started with the Red Sox at the tender age of 20 in 2013. So I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom shipped them both off as soon as he finds it convenient.

 

I think Bloom took advantage of a lucky break to get a ML first baseman in Hosmer for Groome. That along with the Padres willing to pay the bulk of Hosmer's salary. Groome was not in the Sox long term plans and we got a good player at a position of need and one that can be considered as a DH replacement for JDM in 2023 at a lower cost. He is also as insurance, should Casas not work out. This is one of Bloom's better moves.

[vjcsmoke]

I think Bloom took advantage of a lucky break to get a ML first baseman in Hosmer for Groome. That along with the Padres willing to pay the bulk of Hosmer's salary. Groome was not in the Sox long term plans and we got a good player at a position of need and one that can be considered as a DH replacement for JDM in 2023 at a lower cost. He is also as insurance, should Casas not work out. This is one of Bloom's better moves.

 

I'm not high on Groome or anything like that. I'm just wary that Bloom looks quite willing to ship off anyone he didn't handpick himself.

 

As for why he traded for Hosmer - dirt cheap pricetag, San Diego literally wanted to get rid. Meanwhile the Red Sox suffered for 100+ games with no real 1st baseman with Franchy Cordero and Dalbec being disasters.

 

It's just a case of too little too late and hardly deserves praise considering this does pretty much nothing for our chances to catch up in the division when we're already in the cellar looking up at the Yankees.

[notin]

I'm not high on Groome or anything like that. I'm just wary that Bloom looks quite willing to ship off anyone he didn't handpick himself.

 

As for why he traded for Hosmer - dirt cheap pricetag, San Diego literally wanted to get rid. Meanwhile the Red Sox suffered for 100+ games with no real 1st baseman with Franchy Cordero and Dalbec being disasters.

 

It's just a case of too little too late and hardly deserves praise considering this does pretty much nothing for our chances to catch up in the division when we're already in the cellar looking up at the Yankees.

 

I think that since Bloom has only been around since 2020, the entire farm system above A ball - which is where the MLB ready players are - was brought in by other GMs.

 

I was excited when DD drafted Groome, but I’m not surprised he was dealt. He’s struggled with injury after injury. His velocity has dropped. He seems to finally be coming around after over 5 years, but it’s looking pretty unlikely he is going to amount to much. He was rapidly turning into Anderson Espinoza 2.0…

[notin]

Who told you that? I replied to your query of who they could get to play first base with four names, and noted three were moved; those three were Santana, Mancini and Bell. All are now playing on new teams.

 

It's too bad Shaw batted zero, Casas got hurt, Dalbec barely made contact at the plate, and Franchy barely made contact with the ball, his glove and the base when playing the field.

 

It's worse when the guy in charge of a major market team lets it go for 100 games and only does something about it when a team literally has to give him a first baseman.

 

Just because the Sox are a large market doesn’t mean they have infinite money. They’re not a large market with a $75mill payroll. The Lux tax payroll is up around $240 or so mill per Bellhorn. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) And roughly one-eighth of that tied in in 7IP. So yes, not a lot went to 1b because the initial plan went 0 for 3. But then what?

 

It’s not like there were a lot of sellers in May and June. Two of the 3 First baseman you said were traded went in the last 96 hours. And Santana isn’t exactly a substantial upgrade over Cordero/Dalbec.

 

Hosmer, despite that ringing double, doesn’t excite me. But he does bring one massive advantage that Santana/Mancini/etc. doesn’t.

 

The main reason I like building the farm up isn’t to get star players, although they certainly do help. But it’s to be able to afford them. If the Sox want to keep Bogaerts/Devers beyond their current deals, it becomes much, much easier if the farm fills some gaps with players, some of whom need only be serviceable but make minimum wage.

 

Serviceable at minimum wage? Now THAT is a description of Eric Hosmer. At least it’s the one we traded for.

 

So would you be happier if the Sox took on a pricier 1b earlier? Even FA-to-be Santana can’t do what Hosmer can do - play for the Sox next year for minimum wage.

 

If waiting 100 games for a marginal upgrade for does increase the likelihood of keeping Bogaerts and/or Devers, is it worth it?

 

And it does increase the likelihood. But it doesn’t guarantee anything…

[notin]

I saw an actual interview, but this will do.

 

Where does it say he wasn’t talking to anyone else about a 1b?

[Old Red]

Where does it say he wasn’t talking to anyone else about a 1b?

 

Where does it say he was? I heard an interview.

[notin]

Where does it say he was? I heard an interview.

 

You said “this will do”. I quoted it in my post. It was the very thing I said was pure conjecture that you were supposed to be refuting…

[notin]

Where does it say he was? I heard an interview.

 

I watched the interview harmony linked above. About 8:30 or so in he starts saying things like “if you can imagine we probably thought if it and in many cases pursued it.”

 

Granted, an exaggeration. But it doesn’t sound like he never talked to anyone else…

[Old Red]

You said “this will do”. I quoted it in my post. It was the very thing I said was pure conjecture that you were supposed to be refuting…

 

If it makes you feel better we’ll go with your story. Oh yea I remember now Bloom said he was in discussions with other teams about Vic Wertz, or was it Pete Runnels, or was it Dick Stuart? No I remember now it was George Scott. You were right all along.

[notin]

If it makes you feel better we’ll go with your story. Oh yea I remember now Bloom said he was in discussions with other teams about Vic Wertz, or was it Pete Runnels, or was it Dick Stuart? No I remember now it was George Scott. You were right all along.

 

You take being wrong so well.

 

Just for clarification…