Fire Bloom .

[Bobe2]

We should have never let John Denver go, although his personal life was a bit concerning.

 

What are you an English teacher, I press one wrong key

[Bobe2]

The Red Sox have a salary of approximately $230 million this year, with the highest average cost for a family of four to purchase tickets $324 (just tickets no refreshments). The Dodgers have a salary of approximately $330 million with a $47 million penalty yet a family of four can purchase tickets for $265, so the Dodgers pay $147 million more for salary and have cheaper ticket prices, the Red Sox if they don’t resign their free agents will have a salary under $90 million next year, and a team of AAA players playing in the major leagues exactly like they are doing now, I guess their getting us used to it, Bloom is building the Tampa Bay Rays of Massachusetts, never win it all but come just close enough to keep fans interested while making a larger profit at the fans expense, if the Sox keep doing things Blooms way settle back it’s going to be another long 86 years. Now all we can do is sit back and watch him screw up negotiations with Bogarts and Denver’s

[vegasbob]

To me, it was obvious.

 

They knew they were not going to re-sign him in 2 months. (Even if they like him, he's all but said, he'd come back as a FA.)

 

We got two rising prospects, and then we traded garbage (Diekman) for a decent defensive catcher that may hold his own when compared to the Astros now back-up catcher.

 

The simple fact that you need to take time and electrons to explain this tells a lot about the depth of thinking by the OP

[Bellhorn04]

Your living in the past, if that’s all you want is 4 championships then you have the right GM in Bloom, the Yankees have 27 titles and they are hungry for more and will do what it takes or costs to get it, So this fall when they raise the trophy and talk smack you tell them that’s alright we don’t care, we saved a lot of money for a group of billionaires

 

Refresh your memory by reading my first signature line.

[Bellhorn04]

You sound like Bloom thinks. You seriously think that Bloom had no really good options?

 

Correct.

[vegasbob]

The Red Sox have a salary of approximately $230 million this year, with the highest average cost for a family of four to purchase tickets $324 (just tickets no refreshments). The Dodgers have a salary of approximately $330 million with a $47 million penalty yet a family of four can purchase tickets for $265, so the Dodgers pay $147 million more for salary and have cheaper ticket prices, the Red Sox if they don’t resign their free agents will have a salary under $90 million next year, and a team of AAA players playing in the major leagues exactly like they are doing now, I guess their getting us used to it, Bloom is building the Tampa Bay Rays of Massachusetts, never win it all but come just close enough to keep fans interested while making a larger profit at the fans expense, if the Sox keep doing things Blooms way settle back it’s going to be another long 86 years. Now all we can do is sit back and watch him screw up negotiations with Bogarts and Denver’s

 

Do you have any clue as to the TV/Radio and marketing rights value in LA vs Boston. The greater LA area is a small (inept) nation of 15 million potential consumers. The Dodgers could have $1 bleacher seat night for 81 games and not notice the difference.

[Old Red]

Correct.

 

Ok, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

[dgalehouse]

We should have never let John Denver go, although his personal life was a bit concerning.

 

Not mocking another poster or anything. Perfectly okay.

[dgalehouse]

We should have never let John Denver go, although his personal life was a bit concerning.

 

We are going to make a serious run at 5 rings under Henry. This is NOT the first time he's gone cheap on new spending, sometimes for 2-3 year stretches.

 

Nobody is hoping we become the Rays. We are hoping we can take the Rays' approach and add spending to the equation and become consistent winners but with actual rings to show for it.

 

The Dodger and Astros have taken that approach. The Dodgers have spent like drunken sailors, but the Astros have let some big stars walk and have made the ALCS 4 straight seasons. It can be done, but not overnight.

 

The Astros were as bad as our 2020 team, long ago. They did not rebuild overnight.

 

Drunken sailors is not a good analogy. Drunken sailors are known for foolishly throwing their money away after a long time at sea. The Dodgers have been consistently smart and good. Currently , they are 73 - 33. And rings are never guaranteed , the ever expanding post season being the near crapshoot that it is. The objective should be to consistently field a contender.

[Maxbialystock]

Actual attendance is on a pace to be the lowest in the Henry era, and NESN ratings are down too, and that JH does not like.

 

Of course it's the lowest. COVID hasn't gone away, and anyone who goes to sports events with big crowds, lots of unmasked breathing shouting, and even spitting/spraying (ever notice your cell phone when you've had a long conversation?) is nuts.

 

That said, the Sox attendance in 2018, which some think was a pretty good team/year, was 9th in MLB. This year it dropped all the way down to 10th. Oh, and last year, 2021, it was 11th, so this year is an improvement.

[Old Red]

Of course it's the lowest. COVID hasn't gone away, and anyone who goes to sports events with big crowds, lots of unmasked breathing shouting, and even spitting/spraying (ever notice your cell phone when you've had a long conversation?) is nuts.

 

That said, the Sox attendance in 2018, which some think was a pretty good team/year, was 9th in MLB. This year it dropped all the way down to 10th. Oh, and last year, 2021, it was 11th, so this year is an improvement.

That’s the first that I heard Covid is the reason this year that the actual attendance is down at Fenway, and my foolish assumption that it was the product on the field. I guess Covid is the reason that NESN ratings are down too. Nice to get some good education, and free at that. Thanks Max.

[Old Red]

Drunken sailors is not a good analogy. Drunken sailors are known for foolishly throwing their money away after a long time at sea. The Dodgers have been consistently smart and good. Currently , they are 73 - 33. And rings are never guaranteed , the ever expanding post season being the near crapshoot that it is. The objective should be to consistently field a contender.

That is why I keep saying if you know what you are doing a team with a $200M+ payroll should not have any rebuilding periods.

[Maxbialystock]

Your living in the past, if that’s all you want is 4 championships then you have the right GM in Bloom, the Yankees have 27 titles and they are hungry for more and will do what it takes or costs to get it, So this fall when they raise the trophy and talk smack you tell them that’s alright we don’t care, we saved a lot of money for a group of billionaires

 

This is about the silliest post I've seen this year. In the John Henry era the Sox have 4 titles to the Yankees 1, so of course the Yankees are "hungry." Their problem is they've been hungry for 20 years and don't have much to show for those massive salaries they've been paying. That said, and even though the Yankees have a huge fan base and lots of money, those 27 championships are a great achievement. If the Sox are indeed their rivals, we're lucky to have that status. And lately, of course, the Sox have had the upper hand.

 

I think John Henry would have every right to rest on his laurels. Maybe he is. He had no problem letting Mookie go, but by then (2020) he was also paying a king's ransom for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi who weren't doing much for the Sox--and still aren't.

 

As I keep reminding everyone, Juan Sota just turned down a $440M offer from the Nationals as chump change. So keeping Devers could cost $500M. And Aaron Judge is having a better year than Raffy, so maybe that's why the Yankees haven't signed him up. We may be getting close to the first $50M/year ballplayer.

[Maxbialystock]

That’s the first that I heard Covid is the reason this year that the actual attendance is down at Fenway, and my foolish assumption that it was the product on the field. I guess Covid is the reason that NESN ratings are down too. Nice to get some good education, and free at that. Thanks Max.

 

Heck, maybe it isn't COVID. I'm sure the product on the field has something to do with it too.

 

But, then, there's that glaring fact you glossed over. The 2018 product was the best the Sox have fielded in 118 years (at that point), but their attendance, 9th best in MLB, was only slightly better than this year's 10th best.

 

Do you remember the 2019 season? Not bad (84 wins), but a far cry from the 108 wins in 2018). Guess what? The 2019 Sox attendance was 7th best in MLB compared to 9th in 2018. Also, the 2013 (Sox won the WS) attendance was 9th in MLB, but the next year, 2014, it was 6th.

[jung]

Do you have any clue as to the TV/Radio and marketing rights value in LA vs Boston. The greater LA area is a small (inept) nation of 15 million potential consumers. The Dodgers could have $1 bleacher seat night for 81 games and not notice the difference.

 

But look what the Dodgers have to compete with out there.

[Old Red]

Heck, maybe it isn't COVID. I'm sure the product on the field has something to do with it too.

 

But, then, there's that glaring fact you glossed over. The 2018 product was the best the Sox have fielded in 118 years (at that point), but their attendance, 9th best in MLB, was only slightly better than this year's 10th best.

 

Do you remember the 2019 season? Not bad (84 wins), but a far cry from the 108 wins in 2018). Guess what? The 2019 Sox attendance was 7th best in MLB compared to 9th in 2018. Also, the 2013 (Sox won the WS) attendance was 9th in MLB, but the next year, 2014, it was 6th.

 

Are you talking actual attendance?

[Maxbialystock]

To me, it was obvious.

 

They knew they were not going to re-sign him in 2 months. (Even if they like him, he's all but said, he'd come back as a FA.)

 

We got two rising prospects, and then we traded garbage (Diekman) for a decent defensive catcher that may hold his own when compared to the Astros now back-up catcher.

 

Target! Plus I'm not a big Vazquez fan. Plus, when Vazquez was on the team, the Sox had a better record in games when he didn't play than in the games in which he did. Since he left, the Sox have taken 2 of 3 from the Astros, and 1 of 2 from the Royals.

[jung]

Heck, maybe it isn't COVID. I'm sure the product on the field has something to do with it too.

 

But, then, there's that glaring fact you glossed over. The 2018 product was the best the Sox have fielded in 118 years (at that point), but their attendance, 9th best in MLB, was only slightly better than this year's 10th best.

 

Do you remember the 2019 season? Not bad (84 wins), but a far cry from the 108 wins in 2018). Guess what? The 2019 Sox attendance was 7th best in MLB compared to 9th in 2018. Also, the 2013 (Sox won the WS) attendance was 9th in MLB, but the next year, 2014, it was 6th.

 

Attendance is actually more a league wide problem than a Sox specific problem. At these ticket prices MLB has to provide more than "THE NATIONAL PASTIME" and they are not really doing it. The games are still too long. The prices are too high and a cavalcade of pitchers on each roster going a couple innings each is not all that awe inspiring. Plus key elements of the game that true fans of the game enjoy are being short srifted with anybody that can swing a bat being brought up regardless if he can field his position or any position at all.

 

Watching the keystone kops boot balls around might be fine at $10.00 a seat (my first season ticket prices at Fenway were $8.42 per game for seats down the RF line right over the ground crew portal. Those seats are probably $50.00 per game today.

[Bellhorn04]

That is why I keep saying if you know what you are doing a team with a $200M+ payroll should not have any rebuilding periods.

 

But as Bloom supporters keep trying to point out, a huge chunk of the $200M comes from big contracts signed by DD. Including Price's unproductive $16 mill and Sale's unproductive $26 mill. And JD's underperforming $22 mill. And Eovaldi's underperforming $17 mill. That's over $80 mill of it.

[Old Red]

But as Bloom supporters keep trying to point out, a huge chunk of the $200M comes from big contracts signed by DD. Including Price's unproductive $16 mill and Sale's unproductive $26 mill. And JD's underperforming $22 mill. And Eovaldi's underperforming $17 mill. That's over $80 mill of it.

I agree that DD is also responsible for the mess today, and I’m well aware of that. Price, and Sale’s contracts have hurt big time. JD, and Evol fell off a cliff fast.

[Maxbialystock]

Are you talking actual attendance?

 

Sure am. At least, what is reported by espn. Some samples--

 

2004 35,028 ranked 11th

2005 35,159 9th

2007 36,679 11th

2011 37,703 8th

2013 34,979 9th

2017 36,020 9th

2018 35,747 9th

2019 36,106 7th

2021 21,300 11th

2022 32,612 10th

[Elktonnick]

Are you talking actual attendance?

 

Currently the Sox are averaging 32k per game. Except for the covid years that the worse they have done since 2002. If you listen to games on NESN you hear promotions to boost ticket sales, you haven't heard in 20 years. During Spring Training, you could actually walk up to the ticket office and buy same day tickets. The ballpark was 3/4 full. That hasn't happened to us in the past 8 years. Red Sox nation isn't happy. They are showing it at the box office.

 

Regarding NESN, I think the loss of Remy and the fact they can't find anyone to partner full time with O'Brien has depressed viewership greater than just the deterioration of the on field performance.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Elktonnick

[Old Red]

Target! Plus I'm not a big Vazquez fan. Plus, when Vazquez was on the team, the Sox had a better record in games when he didn't play than in the games in which he did. Since he left, the Sox have taken 2 of 3 from the Astros, and 1 of 2 from the Royals.

 

Yes I’m sure the last 5 games was a result of Vaz being off the team. If it is it’s to win to despite Bloom, and not, because Vaz is off the team.

[jung]

I agree that DD is also responsible for the mess today, and I’m well aware of that. Price, and Sale’s contracts have hurt big time. JD, and Evol fell off a cliff fast.

 

Everybody knows DD's approach to Baseball Ops and I am sure JH did as well. The problem for the current Sox administration is that while I did not see much chance of DD's approach coming in conflict with the business side of the House under Sam Kennedy, I think that is a clear possibility now with Bloom. IMO what a Sox team really needs is somebody that knows how to use the money hammer without exercising it with DD's ferocity or even Cerries ferocity for that mater. Its JH's team for now and he can run it like he pleases. However I remain unconvinced that Bloom will end up providing a satisfying result to the fan base.

[Old Red]

Currently the Sox are averaging 32k per game. Except for the covid years that the worse they have done since 2002. If you listen to games on NESN you hear promotions to boost ticket sales, you haven't heard in 20 years. During Spring Training, you could actually walk up to the ticket office and buy same day tickets. The ballpark was 3/4 full. That hasn't happened to us in the past 8 years. Red Sox nation isn't happy. They are showing it at the box office.

 

Regarding NESN, I think the loss of Remy and the fact they can't find anyone to partner full time with O'Brien has depressed viewership greater than just the deterioration of the on field performance.

 

I’m not a big OB fan either, and it seems they just yuck it up to much for me. Of course I was more of a Osillo guy.

[jung]

I’m not a big OB fan either, and it seems they just yuck it up to much for me. Of course I was more of a Osillo guy.

 

I can't say I have turned off a Sox game because of the bold faced representatives of the Fenway Group PR department we have in the booth today. But they are all of them rough on the ears. I have watched less Sox baseball this year than in the last ten years but not because of the broadcast crew. Frankly its because the whole enterprise of MLB has gotten too predictable and unsatisfying for me. Never thought they could take it so far that it would happen. But here I am.

 

Thank God the radio crew is still a reliable known baseball broadcast entity. Lord only knows who they will bring in when Joe is gone....probably hunting for the last ringmaster from Ringling Bros. Circus.

 

Not saying I enjoy the radio broadcast more. There is one advantage....I don't have to listen to a game with my eyes clenched for fear of what I am going to see next and I am not likely to throw something at the radio.

Edited August 6, 2022 by jung

[Maxbialystock]

Attendance is actually more a league wide problem than a Sox specific problem. At these ticket prices MLB has to provide more than "THE NATIONAL PASTIME" and they are not really doing it. The games are still too long. The prices are too high and a cavalcade of pitchers on each roster going a couple innings each is not all that awe inspiring. Plus key elements of the game that true fans of the game enjoy are being short srifted with anybody that can swing a bat being brought up regardless if he can field his position or any position at all.

 

Watching the keystone kops boot balls around might be fine at $10.00 a seat (my first season ticket prices at Fenway were $8.42 per game for seats down the RF line right over the ground crew portal. Those seats are probably $50.00 per game today.

 

Sometimes we agree, and this is definitely one of those times. I think baseball is absolutely the best sport to see/watch in person. So this season I'm enormously sympathetic with/toward the Fenway fans who pay exorbitant ticket/parking/concession prices to see a lousy product. They are being robbed.

 

So, while I'm on the topic, a reminder of my favorite topic. To me baseball and sports in general are quintessentially human endeavors which include great plays and lousy plays. As mad as we got at Duran for letting that fly ball--with two men out--turn into a grand slam home run, it was nevertheless as memorable as the great plays Story and others have made this year, including that neat glove scoop-flip by Winckowski last night to get 2d out with the freaking bases loaded, yet.

 

So, me, I'd get rid of those bold shifts which are computer driven because I like to see great defense as well as good hitting which are less influenced by freaking technology. I wouldn't use robo-umps. I wouldn't let catchers use devices to signal which pitches to throw, but I would consider severe penalties for any team caught stealing signals unfairly.

[jung]

Sometimes we agree, and this is definitely one of those times. I think baseball is absolutely the best sport to see/watch in person. So this season I'm enormously sympathetic with/toward the Fenway fans who pay exorbitant ticket/parking/concession prices to see a lousy product. They are being robbed.

 

So, while I'm on the topic, a reminder of my favorite topic. To me baseball and sports in general are quintessentially human endeavors which include great plays and lousy plays. As mad as we got at Duran for letting that fly ball--with two men out--turn into a grand slam home run, it was nevertheless as memorable as the great plays Story and others have made this year, including that neat glove scoop-flip by Winckowski last night to get 2d out with the freaking bases loaded, yet.

 

 

So, me, I'd get rid of those bold shifts which are computer driven because I like to see great defense as well as good hitting which are less influenced by freaking technology. I wouldn't use robo-umps. I wouldn't let catchers use devices to signal which pitches to throw, but I would consider severe penalties for any team caught stealing signals unfairly.

 

I hate, HATE, H-A-T-E the shift

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Especially Denver's.

 

John Denver? I thought he was dead. Typos can be fun.

[dgalehouse]

We should have never let John Denver go, although his personal life was a bit concerning.

 

But as Bloom supporters keep trying to point out, a huge chunk of the $200M comes from big contracts signed by DD. Including Price's unproductive $16 mill and Sale's unproductive $26 mill. And JD's underperforming $22 mill. And Eovaldi's underperforming $17 mill. That's over $80 mill of it.

 

You can't expect productivity from Price , since he was traded ( along with a future Hall of Famer ) in 2020 . One of.Bloom's first moves. Perhaps he could have he negotiated with the Dodgers to pick up more of his salary ? Sale was loved by most Sox fans . Now that he got hurt , he is an albatross. J.D. has been worth his money. Power is down , but still one of the best hitters on the team . One of the things folks like to emphasize is the Sox coming within two games of the World Series last year. Who outpitched Cole in the critical play in game ? It was Eovaldi . Now he is a burden? These things happen. You still need to compete.