Fire Bloom .

[oldtimer]

Meh.

 

1. Last year's team was pretty successful--won 92 games, beat the Yankees ace in the wild card, then 100 win (most in AL) Rays 4-2 in the ALDS, before losing 4-2 to the Astros.

 

2. Here are the 11 best position players by WAR from last year's team: Bogey, Kike, Devers, JDM, Renfroe, Dugo, Arroyo, Schwarber, and Vazquez. Just two of them, Schwarber and Renfroe, left the Sox--for double what the Sox had been paying them. And the Sox salaries this year are still the 6th highest in MLB. I would like to have kept Schwarber, but the fact is he would have been another DH in addition to JDM. Bringing back JBJ @ $8M to replace Renfroe @$7M (his salary this year) was probably a mistake. Two returning first basemen were lefty bat Shaw, whose OPS last year was .843, and righty bat Dalbec, whose OPS was .792. Neither has panned out, but the fact is Bloom started this season with the expectation they would be OK (or better). Cordero has been better than Shaw, who was let go, but worse than Dalbec.

 

3. Nevertheless, this year's Sox are 3d in the AL in runs scored and 5th in team OPS this year compared to last year's 4th and 3d in 2021. So, as unhappy as we may be with hitting, it's about the same as last year's good team.

 

4. The defense, I agree, is worse than last year, at least in the outfield and at 1B. Devers, Bogey, and Story, however, have been a pretty decent threesome at 3b, SS, and 2b, with Story being tons better than whoever played 2b last year.

 

5. The pitching, on the other hand, was average last year--7th in the AL in ERA--but has fallen to 14th this year--mostly because of injuries to Sale, Eovaldi, Whitlock, Wacha, Hill, et al.

 

6. As for Vazquez, who did hit well in the last month or so, the Sox had a better won-lost record in games without him (before he was traded) than with him. After he was traded to the Astros, the Sox beat the Astros 2 games to 1 and so far have split with the Royals.

 

7. This Sox team is paying Price, Sale, and Eovaldi $63M. Their combined WAR for the Sox this year is +0.9. This gets ignored by you and the other Bloom-blamers. Instead, you gripe endlessly about the inadequacies of Story, who is paid $20M for his WAR of +2.1, for which he provides terrific defense @ 2b and is 2d on the team in rbi's despite missing 20 games so far.

 

Add the salary of Paxton, another no show until at least Sept.

[Maxbialystock]

Currently the Sox are averaging 32k per game. Except for the covid years that the worse they have done since 2002. If you listen to games on NESN you hear promotions to boost ticket sales, you haven't heard in 20 years. During Spring Training, you could actually walk up to the ticket office and buy same day tickets. The ballpark was 3/4 full. That hasn't happened to us in the past 8 years. Red Sox nation isn't happy. They are showing it at the box office.

 

Regarding NESN, I think the loss of Remy and the fact they can't find anyone to partner full time with O'Brien has depressed viewership greater than just the deterioration of the on field performance.

 

Ahem. COVID is still with us. The hope is that its effects, primarily via vaccinations, can be lessened. But there are still plenty of us who avoid crowds, wear masks, etc

 

Before you come back at me, take a quick look at the numbers I provided--specifically, the Sox ranking in attendance. That 32,612 this year is 10th best in MLB. The year the Sox won their first WS in 186 years, their attendance was 11th best. And the very next year, 2005, it only improved to 9th, one place better than this year's.

[oldtimer]

Target! Plus I'm not a big Vazquez fan. Plus, when Vazquez was on the team, the Sox had a better record in games when he didn't play than in the games in which he did. Since he left, the Sox have taken 2 of 3 from the Astros, and 1 of 2 from the Royals.

 

So you recommend we go with Plawecki as our top catcher? He can't hit or throw.

[dgalehouse]

But as Bloom supporters keep trying to point out, a huge chunk of the $200M comes from big contracts signed by DD. Including Price's unproductive $16 mill and Sale's unproductive $26 mill. And JD's underperforming $22 mill. And Eovaldi's underperforming $17 mill. That's over $80 mill of it.

 

The Mets have gotten little from Scherzer , nothing from DeGrom and absolutely zero from Cano . They are not using it as an excuse or complaining . They are riding high . And they are one of the best bets to win it all this year. Their fans are not complaining.

[dgalehouse]

Target! Plus I'm not a big Vazquez fan. Plus, when Vazquez was on the team, the Sox had a better record in games when he didn't play than in the games in which he did. Since he left, the Sox have taken 2 of 3 from the Astros, and 1 of 2 from the Royals.

 

Vazquez goes under the bus again . How in the world was he ever the starting catcher and one of the hardest working , most reliable and well liked guys on the team ?

[Bellhorn04]

The Mets have gotten little from Scherzer , nothing from DeGrom and absolutely zero from Cano . They are not using it as an excuse or complaining . They are riding high . And they are one of the best bets to win it all this year. Their fans are not complaining.

 

Have you been on a Mets fans forum?

 

I keep tabs on a Yankee fan forum, and the amount of complaining they do is amazing. Hardly any of them support Cashman or Boone. Many of them think this year's team is in the midst of a collapse.

 

The underlying reason for all that, I'm sure, is that they've only won it all once since 2000.

[Maxbialystock]

You can't expect productivity from Price , since he was traded ( along with a future Hall of Famer ) in 2020 . One of.Bloom's first moves. Perhaps he could have he negotiated with the Dodgers to pick up more of his salary ? Sale was loved by most Sox fans . Now that he got hurt , he is an albatross. J.D. has been worth his money. Power is down , but still one of the best hitters on the team . One of the things folks like to emphasize is the Sox coming within two games of the World Series last year. Who outpitched Cole in the critical play in game ? It was Eovaldi . Now he is a burden? These things happen. You still need to compete.

 

A fair assessment except that DD paid way too much for Price, which then forced Bloom--I'm positive with JH's backing--to send him to the Dodgers with Mookie and still eat some of his salary. DD could afford that in 2018 because Mookie, Beni, Bogey, JBJ, Devers, et al, had not reached their peak earning power.

 

Good point about Eovaldi last year against Cole. Also terrif vs. the Dodgers in the 2018 WS. That said, the Sox have paid and are paying $68M for a cumulate WAR of 6.4. In the previous 8 seasons he was paid a total of $12M for a cumulative WAR of 9.4. The sad truth is that most big contracts are paying for the past, not the future.

 

However, I strongly agree JDM was a great buy because, as good as those other guys were in 2017, they were better in 2018 because of him.

[moonslav59]

What are you an English teacher, I press one wrong key

 

I was joking, and yes, I am an English teacher.

[Bobe2]

Nobody has $1 seats and the Red Sox own NESN. Also the Red Sox are the highest priced for family of 4 in MLB. They cost more than everybody not just the Dodgers

[moonslav59]

Not mocking another poster or anything. Perfectly okay.

 

You crack me up.

[Maxbialystock]

Plenty of truth, and plenty of substance, and you did have to write a whole page to do it. Well done.

 

Almost no truth. In the John Henry era, now 20 years, the Sox have been way better than the Yankees who, for all their money--and no doubt some hunger and whole lot of frustration--have flopped year after year after year. Yes, absolutely, the Yankees have and deserve those 27 titles, which makes the Sox, in the same division for the last 20+ years, success all the more amazing.

 

moonslav's right in suggesting that John Henry will want to get another WS. Don't forget that it took 6 seasons after the 2007 WS to win again and 5 seasons after 2013.

[jung]

I was joking, and yes, I am an English teacher.

 

lol...only in a Sox forum could this happen. The Yankee forum is probably lucky to have an English Bulldog posting there. Woof......woof

[moonslav59]

Drunken sailors is not a good analogy. Drunken sailors are known for foolishly throwing their money away after a long time at sea. The Dodgers have been consistently smart and good. Currently , they are 73 - 33. And rings are never guaranteed , the ever expanding post season being the near crapshoot that it is. The objective should be to consistently field a contender.

 

Total up the Dodgers foolish spending over the last 3 years and compare to Bloom's, then get back to me.

 

Sure, they've spent a lot of contracts that have worked out well, because they can, but I'm sticking with my drunken sailor analogy. Drunken sailors don't only spend on bad things. Sometimes, they spend on top shelf liquors.

[moonslav59]

Target! Plus I'm not a big Vazquez fan. Plus, when Vazquez was on the team, the Sox had a better record in games when he didn't play than in the games in which he did. Since he left, the Sox have taken 2 of 3 from the Astros, and 1 of 2 from the Royals.

 

As much as I dumped on Vaz's handling the staff, I never viewed him as a net negative, but I do think it's interesting to see him being viewed as the back-up catcher in Houston. (that may change over time, I might add.)

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Total up the Dodgers foolish spending over the last 3 years and compare to Bloom's, then get back to me.

 

Sure, they've spent a lot of contracts that have worked out well, because they can, but I'm sticking with my drunken sailor analogy. Drunken sailors don't only spend on bad things. Sometimes, they spend on top shelf liquors.

 

 

Or "I LOVE MOM" tattoos.

[moonslav59]

Almost no truth. In the John Henry era, now 20 years, the Sox have been way better than the Yankees who, for all their money--and no doubt some hunger and whole lot of frustration--have flopped year after year after year. Yes, absolutely, the Yankees have and deserve those 27 titles, which makes the Sox, in the same division for the last 20+ years, success all the more amazing.

 

moonslav's right in suggesting that John Henry will want to get another WS. Don't forget that it took 6 seasons after the 2007 WS to win again and 5 seasons after 2013.

 

And 5 years from 2013 to 2018.

 

I'm not saying we will win in 2023, another 5 years, but I do think we can get to the point of being a top ring competitor by 2023 or 2024, if we spend near or just over the tax line.

[Old Red]

So you recommend we go with Plawecki as our top catcher? He can't hit or throw.

 

Now we have 2 backup catchers instead of one.

[jung]

As much as I dumped on Vaz's handling the staff, I never viewed him as a net negative, but I do think it's interesting to see him being viewed as the back-up catcher in Houston. (that may change over time, I might add.)

 

Now that one Molina is retired and the other is still in the NL, Maldonado is very likely the best handler of a pitching staff in the AL and maybe all of baseball. Pitching is still a very big deal in Houston which I think sports the best pitching staff in the AL.

[moonslav59]

Or "I LOVE MOM" tattoos.

 

How many "I Love Bauer" tattoos have been removed by drunken Dodger fans.

 

That contract, alone, equals all the bad Bloom contracts combined, unless you count Story's deal as bad after 1/8th of the term.

[moonslav59]

Now that one Molina is retired and the other is still in the NL, Maldonado is very likely the best handler of a pitching staff in the AL and maybe all of baseball. Pitching is still a very big deal in Houston which I think sports the best pitching staff in the AL.

 

You don't have to convince me.

 

I have no idea how good McGuire is with maximizing pitching staff value, but I'm hoping he's better than Vaz was.

[Old Red]

And 5 years from 2013 to 2018.

 

I'm not saying we will win in 2023, another 5 years, but I do think we can get to the point of being a top ring competitor by 2023 or 2024, if we spend near or just over the tax line.

See this is a Bloom analogy. Get exited about What Might Happen in 2023, and beyond, and just take it for granted, because of Bloom, and the Bloom way that the team will actually be good.

[dgalehouse]

Or "I LOVE MOM" tattoos.

 

Everybody should love their Mom . But top shelf liquor should never be sold to a drunken sailor . As for the Dodgers , they must be doing something right. They have a very good ballclub.

[Old Red]

You don't have to convince me.

 

I have no idea how good McGuire is with maximizing pitching staff value, but I'm hoping he's better than Vaz was.

 

You think he will be a clutch hitter, and a leader in the clubhouse like Vaz was. Of course that’s not analytics so that don’t matter to some. Matters in the clubhouse though.

[dgalehouse]

See this is a Bloom analogy. Get exited about What Might Happen in 2023, and beyond, and just take it for granted, because of Bloom, and the Bloom way that the team will actually be good.

 

Old Red , How long do you suppose Bloom is going to get ? I am starting to see talk of 2024 being our year. What's next ? 2025 ?

[Old Red]

I was joking, and yes, I am an English teacher.

 

Also one of the word police on here to analyze every word to to say i gotcha on something. Makes them feel important.

[Bobe2]

I’ve been a Sox fan for almost 60 years and in that time I’ve seen them pull some bone head moves, suffered through some horrible managers seen good players traded and lousy players coveted, the Henry group brought money and hope and we did win, now it seems like we are regressing back to the Yawkey years, only spend what you have to nothing more just put a team on the field, looks like the good old days are coming back. One good thing will come out of this though you’ll be able to get tickets really easy

[Old Red]

Old Red , How long do you suppose Bloom is going to get ? I am starting to see talk of 2024 being our year. What's next ? 2025 ?

 

If it was up to some I’m sure a lifetime contract would be in the works.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Everybody should love their Mom . But top shelf liquor should never be sold to a drunken sailor . As for the Dodgers , they must be doing something right. They have a very good ballclub.

 

100% agree. I didn't say it was a bad thing. Similar to top shelf liquor.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Old Red , How long do you suppose Bloom is going to get ? I am starting to see talk of 2024 being our year. What's next ? 2025 ?

 

Que Sera Sera.

[moonslav59]

I don't expect every Sox fan to be optimistic about the future. I, for one, expect us to keep improving from the low point of 2020. I like the way our farm is deeper and stronger. I like the way our 40 man roster is deeper and stronger, and looks to be even better when we add 5-6 quality rule 5 players and fill 4-6 slots with about $90M to spend, this winter.

 

Will we win it all in 2023 or 2024? Who knows, but I like the direction we are headed towards.

 

Do I like the results of 2022 after 108 games? Hell NO! I did after 75 and 80 games, but that seems like eons ago.

 

Maybe it comes down to what each of us expected after 2020.

 

I'm going to come out and say it: I get the feeling those who were most in denial about the whole impending "cliff" talk are the one's most angry and vindictive about that becoming a reality. Henry saw it coming and cut the budget to reflect that reality. he hired a rebuilding style GM from an organization known for doing the best with limited budgets, talent evaluation and building up the farm and developmental systems. There is all kinds of evidence that points to a planned lull in competitiveness, despite the rhetoric top brass has spewed to try and keep fans thinking we will continue being an exciting team to watch, during the rebuild.

 

We can deny this is a rebuild all we want. We can cry and cry about the here and now hurting so badly, and scramble to heep blame on the easiest targets all we want, but maybe, just maybe some of our expectations were way too unrealistic.

 

The way MLB has structured how teams can add young talent to their system has chanced over the last few years. It's much harder for rich teams to just buy IFAs or over slotted draft picks. It's not easy to just turn a bottom 5 farm system into a top 5 or 10 system. Even 4-5 years might be an unrealistic expectation. It's easy to just point to a $230M budget and say, any team with that budget should be winning and blame the Gm and manager, if they are not. It's not an umeritted position to hold. It's not UNrealistic. It makes sense. I get it, but there is more to it than just seeing $230M as the only thing that counts.

 

To me, the posters that attempt to have a balanced view of things are being viewed as some sort of extreme Cora/Bloom loyalist, because they are not drinking the same angry, blame infested Kool-Aid drunk by the cliff deniers. Okay, now I'm going to be called out for getting too personal, and I deserve it, but I'm tired of being accused of being something I am not, so I'm dishing out the same medicine I'm seeing thrown at some of us. It doesn't feel good, does it?

 

(Don't bother answering. It's a rhetorical question, and most of those who will respond are on ignore, anyway.)

 

I don't see any poster as a Bloom loyalist. Some certainly defend him more than others, but I don't see posters like Kimmi and Max as being extreme. I do see a select few of the Bloom bashers as being unrelenting and mean spirited, and way more extreme than Kimmi, Max, Bell, notin and myself. (I may be missing a few.)

 

Go ahead, have at it, but it is what it is. We are paying the price for 2018, and you don't want to face it. When we win again, and I truly think we will, maybe you'll ease up, although I'm not sure some of you even know how to, even when things are going well.