Fire Bloom .

[Hugh2]

I've never been one to get all hot and bothered and judge things in a vacuum. People who blame for this teams woes, where were they when this team was 2 games away from a world series last year? The team is with it's flaws, and is largely underperforming (last year they overperformed).

 

I think a lot of the finger-pointing at Bloom and calling him a bad G.M. is extremely short-sighted but I will say this, he lost the Renfroe/JBJ trade. And that's ok, no one is going to win every trade. One of my reasonings for justifying the trade was the fact that Renfroe had a career year last year.......well......he's having an even better year this year. Yes, these prospects could amount to something and turn the tables and you can't judge a G.M. by one trade but as of right now it's looking like bad move.

[notin]

I've never been one to get all hot and bothered and judge things in a vacuum. People who blame for this teams woes, where were they when this team was 2 games away from a world series last year? The team is with it's flaws, and is largely underperforming (last year they overperformed).

 

I think a lot of the finger-pointing at Bloom and calling him a bad G.M. is extremely short-sighted but I will say this, he lost the Renfroe/JBJ trade. And that's ok, no one is going to win every trade. One of my reasonings for justifying the trade was the fact that Renfroe had a career year last year.......well......he's having an even better year this year. Yes, these prospects could amount to something and turn the tables and you can't judge a G.M. by one trade but as of right now it's looking like bad move.

 

Even citing he lost the Mookie trade is a bad example. Verdugo is no Mookie, but not extending Mookie does keep Devers in play for now. I’m sure some people would rather have Mookie over Devers and Verdugo, but I wouldn’t call it a slam dunk obvious choice…

[Hugh2]

Even citing he lost the Mookie trade is a bad example. Verdugo is no Mookie, but not extending Mookie does keep Devers in play for now. I’m sure some people would rather have Mookie over Devers and Verdugo, but I wouldn’t call it a slam dunk obvious choice…

 

Trades like that are almost impossible to value because you only had Mookie for one more year, everything he's doing now is OFF of his cost-controlled years. Now I get the rebuttal there is "well we could have resigned him". Well, maybe but it's more probable than not that they wouldn't. Still, the money that gets spent elsewhere is almost impossible to quantify. You could tie in Mookie money to almost any transaction going forward for the next few years.

[Bellhorn04]

Trades like that are almost impossible to value because you only had Mookie for one more year, everything he's doing now is OFF of his cost-controlled years. Now I get the rebuttal there is "well we could have resigned him". Well, maybe but it's more probable than not that they wouldn't. Still, the money that gets spent elsewhere is almost impossible to quantify. You could tie in Mookie money to almost any transaction going forward for the next few years.

 

Perfectly stated.

[mvp 78]

If Bloom is this supposed genius why JBJ over someone like Puig ? Better fielder ??? Hardly ! Better arm Not even close now More Power ??? FFS hellllll no better career average ???? Bwahhhhhaaaa ummm no not ever .Puig Is sitting in Korea and Totally humbled by his Past .If Bloom is the Jedi dumpster diver why not go get Puig and resurrect his career ? If Watson can play NFL games with what 100 people accusing him can’t puig have some kind of career here ? JBJ Verdugo are hardly the Juggernauts .Go Call Puigs agent and see if you can catch lightning in a bottle .

 

JBJ isn't a better fielder than Puig?

[MADSTORK]

I've never been one to get all hot and bothered and judge things in a vacuum. People who blame for this teams woes, where were they when this team was 2 games away from a world series last year? The team is with it's flaws, and is largely underperforming (last year they overperformed).

 

I think a lot of the finger-pointing at Bloom and calling him a bad G.M. is extremely short-sighted but I will say this, he lost the Renfroe/JBJ trade. And that's ok, no one is going to win every trade. One of my reasonings for justifying the trade was the fact that Renfroe had a career year last year.......well......he's having an even better year this year. Yes, these prospects could amount to something and turn the tables and you can't judge a G.M. by one trade but as of right now it's looking like bad move.

 

He ain’t won a trade yet!

It’s been zero return on 3 legit major league players in AB Betts Renfro

 

Far as Over performing as a Team in 21 your sipping the Kool Aid

 

All Bloom had to do was find a Closer (Jansen) upgrade 1B and strengthen the Bench and continue to build the Pitching

If the Team sucked so be it, at least the Roster construction on paper was upgraded or filled

 

He created more holes in lineup by trading Renfro and over paying Story

[moonslav59]

Trades like that are almost impossible to value because you only had Mookie for one more year, everything he's doing now is OFF of his cost-controlled years. Now I get the rebuttal there is "well we could have resigned him". Well, maybe but it's more probable than not that they wouldn't. Still, the money that gets spent elsewhere is almost impossible to quantify. You could tie in Mookie money to almost any transaction going forward for the next few years.

 

Great point.

 

To me, the choice was made not to re-sign Betts before the trade, so the "we could have signed him" is a separate issue from the trade.

 

People seem to only remember the bad trades.

 

Beyond the Betts deal, what about...

 

Nothing for German + Ottavino's contract?

 

Workman & Hembree for Pivetta & Seabold?

 

Not so sure the Beni for Wink + 4 others deal is complete enough to write it off as a loss.

 

The JBJ trade looks like a total cluster, but there is a long shot chance Binelas and even Hamilton end up helping making the deal close to just being bad not horrific.

 

[Bellhorn04]

The JBJ trade looks like a total cluster, but there is a long shot chance Binelas and even Hamilton end up helping making the deal close to just being bad not horrific.

 

Now that's worth getting excited about!

[Bellhorn04]

The JBJ trade looks lousy this year, but it's not really what you'd call long term damage...

[moonslav59]

The JBJ trade looks lousy this year, but it's not really what you'd call long term damage...

 

one side of the trade is over once we pay the $8M JBJ buyout and Renfroe's team control ends.

 

Binelas and Hamilton are likely pipe dreams, so it's easy to predict the deal will end up being bad to horrific.

 

It turns out "Head-scratcher" was too mild.

[notin]

The JBJ trade looks lousy this year, but it's not really what you'd call long term damage...

 

It had ramifications from April all the way to October!! If that isn’t “long term”….

[moonslav59]

It had ramifications from April all the way to October!! If that isn’t “long term”….

 

The $8M buyout goes through the 2023 season.

[Bellhorn04]

The $8M buyout goes through the 2023 season.

 

It doesn't affect the 2023 tax bill. It was guaranteed money.

[Bellhorn04]

one side of the trade is over once we pay the $8M JBJ buyout and Renfroe's team control ends.

 

Binelas and Hamilton are likely pipe dreams, so it's easy to predict the deal will end up being bad to horrific.

 

It turns out "Head-scratcher" was too mild.

 

Jeez man, if you consider this horrific, what does that make Pablo/Hanley/Rusney et al?

[moonslav59]

It doesn't affect the 2023 tax bill. It was guaranteed money.

 

No, but I think it plays into Henry's desire to not splurge.

[moonslav59]

Jeez man, if you consider this horrific, what does that make Pablo/Hanley/Rusney et al?

 

Don't get me started.

 

I'm hitting the road, soon.

[notin]

Jeez man, if you consider this horrific, what does that make Pablo/Hanley/Rusney et al?

 

Apocalyptic?

[mvp 78]

No, but I think it plays into Henry's desire to not splurge.

 

He's splurged in the past. What is preventing him now?

[notin]

He's splurged in the past. What is preventing him now?

 

The ROI on Sandoval, Hanley, Rusney, Price, and Sale?

[Bellhorn04]

The ROI on Sandoval, Hanley, Rusney, Price, and Sale?

 

Pretty good answer!

[mvp 78]

The ROI on Sandoval, Hanley, Rusney, Price, and Sale?

 

He splurged after Sandoval, Hanley and Rusney. Price helped him get a ring.

[Hugh2]

People always complain about the Sox not "splurging" yet can never reconcile those complaints with them being top spenders. Every. Single. Year. And how many rings does John Henry have compared to his counterparts during his tenure as owner of the Sox?

 

I'll wait.

 

EDIT: this is not a defense of anyone or anything or any particular move. It's just a reminder to look at the big picture.

Edited July 29, 2022 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[redsoxrules]

I've never been one to get all hot and bothered and judge things in a vacuum. People who blame for this teams woes, where were they when this team was 2 games away from a world series last year? The team is with it's flaws, and is largely underperforming (last year they overperformed).

 

I think a lot of the finger-pointing at Bloom and calling him a bad G.M. is extremely short-sighted but I will say this, he lost the Renfroe/JBJ trade. And that's ok, no one is going to win every trade. One of my reasonings for justifying the trade was the fact that Renfroe had a career year last year.......well......he's having an even better year this year. Yes, these prospects could amount to something and turn the tables and you can't judge a G.M. by one trade but as of right now it's looking like bad move.

 

Why does everyone keep saying Renfroe had a career year? Ffs in his first 3 season he hit 26,26 and 33 HR AND he didn't even play the full season on those. His 162 game avg is 37HR per season. The dude can hit.

 

You obviously don't win every trade but this one was head scratcher from the start

[Old Red]

Why does everyone keep saying Renfroe had a career year? Ffs in his first 3 season he hit 26,26 and 33 HR AND he didn't even play the full season on those. His 162 game avg is 37HR per season. The dude can hit.

 

You obviously don't win every trade but this one was head scratcher from the start

 

There were some on here who said he couldn’t do it again, and while a bargain at $3M would not be a bargain at $6-7M, or worth it. Not to mention he was not a good RF, so the Sox went out, and traded for a excellent RF, but can’t hit, and paid more money to do so.that the Red Sox would have never given him the contract in the first place to stay in Boston is yes wait for it a head scratcher.

[Old Red]

People always complain about the Sox not "splurging" yet can never reconcile those complaints with them being top spenders. Every. Single. Year. And how many rings does John Henry have compared to his counterparts during his tenure as owner of the Sox?

 

I'll wait.

 

EDIT: this is not a defense of anyone or anything or any particular move. It's just a reminder to look at the big picture.

 

Henry has been a great owner, and the 4 championships attest to that. I think the criticism now for some comes from the notion that JH now is not the same JH as when he first got here. I think that the old JH would have had the Bogey, and Raffy contract situations all worked out by now, and it’s a question if Mookie would have been traded, or not. Of course the salary structure has gone up 10 fold from when JH first arrived in Boston, which does make a big difference.

[mvp 78]

Bogaerts - 42 RBI: not a run producer

 

Renfroe - 39 RBI: a real run producer

[notin]

He splurged after Sandoval, Hanley and Rusney. Price helped him get a ring.

 

$217 million counts as “splurging” under every definition of the word.

 

If you like, the cumulative ROI for the roughly $650mill spent on those players is one ring (and counting)…

[mvp 78]

$217 million counts as “splurging” under every definition of the word.

If you like, the cumulative ROI for the roughly $650mill spent on those players is one ring (and counting)…

 

No.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

With the Mookie trade, we can question the decision to make Verdugo such a priority. The Red Sox already had a Verdugo type of player in Benintendi. Why would the Red Sox want two of them? They could have just kept Benintendi, not traded for Verdugo, and made the Dodgers include another player. The move from Benintendi to Verdugo was weird, a sideways move, and is part of the total mismanagement of the OF that has turned into one of the least productive OFs in baseball. Of course, the other problem with the Mookie trade: Jeter Downs is a bust.

 

The Bradley trade was laughable it was so bad. It was laughable when it was made and looks even worse now.

 

I think Bloom gets one more year. He has made some stupid decisions--not doing enough at last year's trade deadline to upgrade the pitching was arguably another mistake--but GMs can improve. Cashman has made a lot of mistakes. Theo signed Crawford, Heyward, and supposedly he never would have traded Hanley for Beckett (and Beckett was the guy who carried the Red Sox to a championship in 2007). It is still too early to give up on Bloom but there are some troubling signs, that's for sure.

 

I'll be curious to see how Bloom handles the 2022 trade deadline, but the early returns are not promising. There is absolutely no excuse for holding on to JD Martinez and Eavoldi. We will see what Bloom decides to do. Holding on to Bogaerts is a completely different situation, since the Red Sox will get draft compensation for him. But they can't get draft compensation for JD and Eavoldi and so the Red Sox need to get something for them now. The season is over, although perhaps Bloom lives in la-la land and believes the Red Sox still have a chance.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Fan_since_Boggs

[mvp 78]

fWAR since 1/1/20

 

Verdugo 4.3

Benintendi 3.4