Suzuki vs Story - Early Returns on Investment

[Bellhorn04]

Last 13 games Suzuki is hitting .157 with 18 K's and 2 BB's.

 

Major league pitchers put together a book on him real quick.

 

Now we'll see if he can make adjustments of his own.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

Seiya Suzuki's first 10 games:

 

429/564/929, 23% BB%, 23% K%

 

And since:

 

161/246/258, 10% BB%, 33% K%

[jad]

I'm not sure Story becomes acceptable simply because there are some players out there who are even worse.

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure Story becomes acceptable simply because there are some players out there who are even worse.

 

It doesn't.

[Maxbialystock]

I think Story was a bad deal, but would love to be proven wrong.

[notin]

I think Story was a bad deal, but would love to be proven wrong.

 

For me, the highlight of signing Story was it quashed Tampa North fears. But I would have preferred alternatives.

 

One thing about him was he might not look like a good replay for Bogaerts, who was second in SS fWAR from 2018-2021 behind only Semien. But at least Story was third…

[JDavis76]

For me, the highlight of signing Story was it quashed Tampa North fears. But I would have preferred alternatives.

 

One thing about him was he might not look like a good replay for Bogaerts, who was second in SS fWAR from 2018-2021 behind only Semien. But at least Story was third…

 

I haven't looked at his splits, how much of that can be contributed to playing his home games in Coors Field?

[mvp 78]

I haven't looked at his splits, how much of that can be contributed to playing his home games in Coors Field?

 

His splits are about as large as Xander's are.

[Old Red]

For me, the highlight of signing Story was it quashed Tampa North fears. But I would have preferred alternatives.

 

One thing about him was he might not look like a good replay for Bogaerts, who was second in SS fWAR from 2018-2021 behind only Semien. But at least Story was third…

 

I don’t think Signing Story has quashed anything at all, and like I mentioned before was just a result of John Henry’s Rabbit Ears telling Bloom to go , and do something to appease the fans. Just an opinion.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think Signing Story has quashed anything at all, and like I mentioned before was just a result of John Henry’s Rabbit Ears telling Bloom to go , and do something to appease the fans. Just an opinion.

 

I think Bloom tried waiting out the market and got a guy he thought wasn't going to be overpaid.

[Old Red]

I think Bloom tried waiting out the market and got a guy he thought wasn't going to be overpaid.

 

You may be right, but I also think that Boston was not Story’s first choice, but the money was to good to pass up. Seems strange that he fired his agent afterwards.

[notin]

I don’t think Signing Story has quashed anything at all, and like I mentioned before was just a result of John Henry’s Rabbit Ears telling Bloom to go , and do something to appease the fans. Just an opinion.

 

All big market free agency is done “just to appease the fans.” Do you think Texas paid nearly $500 million for Seager and Semien because they thought both were going to be good players for 10 and 7 years respectively?

[mvp 78]

You may be right, but I also think that Boston was not Story’s first choice, but the money was to good to pass up. Seems strange that he fired his agent afterwards.

 

After you've signed long term, what do you need an agent for?

[Old Red]

After you've signed long term, what do you need an agent for?

 

I don’t think that was it of just not needing an agent, but it is a possibility.

[Old Red]

All big market free agency is done “just to appease the fans.” Do you think Texas paid nearly $500 million for Seager and Semien because they thought both were going to be good players for 10 and 7 years respectively?

 

I don’t think Texas knew what they were doing outside of spending lots of money.

[harmony]

After you've signed long term, what do you need an agent for?

Outside deals? Speaking engagements? Endorsements?

[dgalehouse]

Outside deals? Speaking engagements? Endorsements?

 

Yes. I good agent should be helpful in a lot of ways.

[notin]

I don’t think Texas knew what they were doing outside of spending lots of money.

 

They knew what they were doing. They were loudly and boldly telling their fans “money will not be an obstacle. They are well aware both players will decline rapidly, as nearly all long term free agents do. Heck I know it. Absolutely no way I know anything about Seager and Semien they don’t know.

 

And when those (or any players) decline, will the fans think “hey, they tried all those years ago”? Or will they forget about the ridiculous deals on the declining players and expect the team to still spend?

 

We all know the answer. You yourself think Story was not Bloom’s idea but was foisted on him by Henry. And many have called up Bloom for “dumpster diving” because we want to blame this team’s ineptitude on his frugality.

 

But the reality is, even with the dumpster diving, the Sox have the 6th highest payrolll in MLB. And there is a definite possibility that Bloom’s frugality takes into account that he is paying some $84 mill this year - well over one third of his payroll - to four players, one of whom is sitting at home and another is on a whole different team. Did you get excited about Price in 2016? Probably. A lot of people did. But Price came with, well, a price. And the Sox are still paying that Price price, which certainly impacts the team today.

 

This does impact Bogaerts. What do you suppose he wants in what is obviously his last chance to really cash in? And will he be worth it at the end of his deal? I suspect he would get 6 yrs $150 mill in free agency, but I could be wrong. I do know it makes more sense to shoot for the moon with Boston because he still has free agency if things don’t work out the way he wants.

 

It’s a tough call. Fans want the player when he’s still good. But not when things ho wrong. You haven’t been calling him “Chris Frail” as a term of endearment, have you?

[Old Red]

They knew what they were doing. They were loudly and boldly telling their fans “money will not be an obstacle. They are well aware both players will decline rapidly, as nearly all long term free agents do. Heck I know it. Absolutely no way I know anything about Seager and Semien they don’t know.

 

And when those (or any players) decline, will the fans think “hey, they tried all those years ago”? Or will they forget about the ridiculous deals on the declining players and expect the team to still spend?

 

We all know the answer. You yourself think Story was not Bloom’s idea but was foisted on him by Henry. And many have called up Bloom for “dumpster diving” because we want to blame this team’s ineptitude on his frugality.

 

But the reality is, even with the dumpster diving, the Sox have the 6th highest payrolll in MLB. And there is a definite possibility that Bloom’s frugality takes into account that he is paying some $84 mill this year - well over one third of his payroll - to four players, one of whom is sitting at home and another is on a whole different team. Did you get excited about Price in 2016? Probably. A lot of people did. But Price came with, well, a price. And the Sox are still paying that Price price, which certainly impacts the team today.

 

This does impact Bogaerts. What do you suppose he wants in what is obviously his last chance to really cash in? And will he be worth it at the end of his deal? I suspect he would get 6 yrs $150 mill in free agency, but I could be wrong. I do know it makes more sense to shoot for the moon with Boston because he still has free agency if things don’t work out the way he wants.

 

It’s a tough call. Fans want the player when he’s still good. But not when things ho wrong. You haven’t been calling him “Chris Frail” as a term of endearment, have you?

 

I can’t take credit for Chris Frail, because that is how he is referred to on the radio show I listen to in the morning on the Big Jab.As for Story no I don’t believe he was in the Red Sox plans to start with, but was Bloom’s idea after Henry told him to go out, and get someone. I haven’t been in on the dumpster diving, but I have gone with the bargain basement shopping. Some on here always fall back on the standing on the payroll tree, but except for Story most of the payroll has come before Bloom got here. No I wasn’t excited for the pPrice signing, because it was to big a contract when the Sox could have signed a proven Red Sox commodity in Lester. I don’t know what Bogey is asking, but would start with the 6/150, and would go up to 6/165, and that’s it.

[mvp 78]

the Big Jab

 

Me, I like to wake up with a nice morning coffee, not jam some sewing needles in my ears. You gotta do you though.

[notin]

I can’t take credit for Chris Frail, because that is how he is referred to on the radio show I listen to in the morning on the Big Jab.As for Story no I don’t believe he was in the Red Sox plans to start with, but was Bloom’s idea after Henry told him to go out, and get someone. I haven’t been in on the dumpster diving, but I have gone with the bargain basement shopping. Some on here always fall back on the standing on the payroll tree, but except for Story most of the payroll has come before Bloom got here. No I wasn’t excited for the pPrice signing, because it was to big a contract when the Sox could have signed a proven Red Sox commodity in Lester. I don’t know what Bogey is asking, but would start with the 6/150, and would go up to 6/165, and that’s it.

 

 

The bottom line is he is allowed to spend, but there is a budget (number unknown to me). So inheriting a big payroll does leave him less wiggle room towards said budget. Hence the dumpster diving/bargain basement shopping/discount discovering/whatever,

 

And when it comes to Bogaerts, it’s quite possible that they knew/suspected he wouldn’t sign for anything close to 6/$140mill, so Story came in as a pre-emptive replacement…

[Bellhorn04]

The bottom line is he is allowed to spend, but there is a budget (number unknown to me). So inheriting a big payroll does leave him less wiggle room towards said budget. Hence the dumpster diving/bargain basement shopping/discount discovering/whatever,

 

And when it comes to Bogaerts, it’s quite possible that they knew/suspected he wouldn’t sign for anything close to 6/$140mill, so Story came in as a pre-emptive replacement…

 

I'd say that's more than possible.

[Old Red]

Me, I like to wake up with a nice morning coffee, not jam some sewing needles in my ears. You gotta do you though.

 

Can’t beat Shaugnessy calling in on Mon, and Thur mornings. Love him, or hate him nothing in between.

[Old Red]

Me, I like to wake up with a nice morning coffee, not jam some sewing needles in my ears. You gotta do you though.

 

I listen to, and watch, and read all kinds. I like to broaden my horizons starting off the day with BBM, and usually ending with BSTN. Even Steven A once in awhile.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

To sum up the Red Sox had a big choice in the offseason. They chose to trade Hunter Renfrow for Jackie Bradley Junior. So it was obvious we needed a replacement for Renfrow. We also let Kyle Schwarber go.

 

Instead of going after 27 year old japanese phenom OF Seiya Suzuki who signed a 5 year/85m deal with the Cubs the Red Sox spent nearly double the money to sign 29 year old IF Trevor Story to a 6 year 140m dollar contract.

 

How are they doing so far?

 

18 games in, Seiya Suzuki is who we thought he was - batting .333 with 4 homeruns, a .458 obp, a .632 SLG, and over 1.09 OPS. In other words he's a star slugging outfielder.

 

Oh but how has Trevor Story fared for the Red Sox, surely he has justified costing nearly double the money to play a position where we already have Xander Bogaerts?

 

14 games in, Trevor Story is batting .236, with 0 homeruns, a .311 OBP, .309 SLG, and .621 OPS.

 

In other words we paid double the money and got 60% the production out of Trevor Story.

 

Meanwhile, you remember that Hunter Renfrow flip for JBJ? How is he doing this year?

 

Oh kind of as expected:

 

18 games in Jackie Bradley Jr is batting .173, with 0 homeruns, a .273 OBP, and .250 SLG, with a whopping .521 OPS.

 

That's right, our two big acquisitions of the offseason are putting up OPS of .621 and .521 respectively. That's not just mediocre or below par, that's downright terrible.

 

These two moves alone make Bloom look like a fool. Especially considering what we missed out on in the free agent market.

 

The Trevor Story signing looks to be a blunder on par or worse than Pablo Sandoval, considering the contract length and amount 6/140 vs 5/95 and the additional opportunity cost on missing out on Suzuki.

 

I don't know about you but GM's have been fired for lesser mistakes. Chaim Bloom should be in the hot seat. And until he fixes his mistakes, the Red Sox will have to live with them for a long time to come.

 

Not much in the way of updates LOL

[notin]

Outside deals? Speaking engagements? Endorsements?

 

Also, bootlicking…

[Nick]

FAVORITE PASTE TIME-REWRITING THE HISTORY

 

DD was hired to change the downward directory of Red Sox. Team won the World Series in 2013, after last place finish in 2012. Then the team again came in dead last in 2014 and 2015.

 

Henry knew what DD was all about (trade away young talent and spend money). Henry hired DD anyway.

 

For the first time in team history, Red Sox under DD won 3 STRAIGHT EASTERN DIVISION TITLE (2016-2018), culminating with a World Series ring in 2018.

 

First big singing was David Price. I still cringe every time I see that we're still paying $16M to the Dodgers.

 

But I get it. David is David. He was given free reins to improve the team that had finished DEAD LAST three out of 4 previous seasons.

 

I'll take the World Series ring and move on. Not one complaint from me. You don't ever return a World Series Champion honor.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick

[Nick]

I wanted Schwarber but from position wise I knew it didn't work as long as we had JD. (although he would have look good as a 1B for one year before moving to DH).

 

My next choice was Suzuki. Renfroe is making $7.65M versus Suzuki's tax payroll of $17M. I would've taken the risk of 5year/$85M.

 

No matter what anyone says, Story was signed to take over the SS position.

 

From my perspective, Suzuki/Story was NOT either/or. Both should have been signed.

 

Suzuki was an upgrade over Renfroe in right field and Story was future replacement for Xander.

 

PS Just think of this possibility by blowing way past the tax limit for one year.

1B Schwarber (moved to DH or LF in 2023)

2B Story (moved to SS in 2023)

3B Devers (extended in winter 2022)

SS Xander (elsewhere in 2023)

LF Verdugo

CF Kike

RF Suzuki

DH JD

CC Vaz.

 

Now they'd score some runs. Xander and JD probably move on so over a two year period, you replaced Xander with Story, Renfroe with Suzuki, and JD with Schwarber.

 

Net annual cost? $10M Doable.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nick

[Larry Cook]

I wanted Schwarber but from position wise I knew it didn't work as long as we had JD. (although he would have look good as a 1B for one year before moving to DH).

 

My next choice was Suzuki. Renfroe is making $7.65M versus Suzuki's tax payroll of $17M. I would've taken the risk of 5year/$85M.

 

No matter what anyone says, Story was signed to take over the SS position.

 

From my perspective, Suzuki/Story was NOT either/or. Both should have been signed.

 

Suzuki was an upgrade over Renfroe in right field and Story was future replacement for Xander.

 

PS Just think of this possibility by blowing way past the tax limit for one year.

1B Schwarber (moved to DH or LF in 2023)

2B Story (moved to SS in 2023)

3B Devers (extended in winter 2022)

SS Xander (elsewhere in 2023)

LF Verdugo

CF Kike

RF Suzuki

DH JD

CC Vaz.

 

Now they'd score some runs. Xander and JD probably move on so over a two year period, you replaced Xander with Story, Renfroe with Suzuki, and JD with Schwarber.

 

Net annual cost? $10M Doable.

 

Renfro has been on fire lately!

[Nick]

Renfro has been on fire lately!

 

Yes...but I think most agreed that Suzuki was legit. Given the choice, I'd gone with Suzuki locked up for 5 years.