2022 Bullpen Thread

[Old Red]

Houck or Whitlock (when back) needs to be named the closer. The amount of games blown late is absurd

 

3 game series tin Toronto the end of this month, which means no Houck again unless he got, or gets vaxed, or Canda has changed the rules.

[Larry Cook]

3 game series tin Toronto the end of this month, which means no Houck again unless he got, or gets vaxed, or Canda has changed the rules.

 

Maybe German gets a shot with houck on the shelf!

[moonslav59]

Maybe German gets a shot with houck on the shelf!

 

Maybe before.

[Nick]

How can we answer it any better than the evidence that the guys that actually run the teams think it's too taxing to be worth it?

 

They didn't do it in the old days, either.

 

In old days starters went 7, 8, 9 innings.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm wondering from a knowledgeable source what exactly does a starter do between starts?

 

Apparently no one here knows anything about pitching.

 

It's amazing how many high school pitchers are more active than these pros....

[moonslav59]

In old days starters went 7, 8, 9 innings.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm wondering from a knowledgeable source what exactly does a starter do between starts?

 

Apparently no one here knows anything about pitching.

 

It's amazing how many high school pitchers are more active than these pros....

 

They have a day they throw, but not at the level of a game, and coming into a game involves warming up and stepping out of their normal routine.

 

Baseball is very much into routines and patterns- for good or bad.

[Bellhorn04]

They have a day they throw, but not at the level of a game, and coming into a game involves warming up and stepping out of their normal routine.

 

Baseball is very much into routines and patterns- for good or bad.

 

As I said, Alex Cora actually did what Nick is suggesting, in the 2018 postseason.

 

Which led to the infamous Restgate.

 

One could also speculate that Price and Porcello were adversely affected by it. They were never really the same. Of course it may have been decline that was in progress anyway.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As I said, Alex Cora actually did what Nick is suggesting, in the 2018 postseason.

 

Which led to the infamous Restgate.

 

One could also speculate that Price and Porcello were adversely affected by it. They were never really the same. Of course it may have been decline that was in progress anyway.

 

It's a hard call -- in ancient times, when bullpens were usually composed of pitchers not good enough for the rotation, using starters to close postseason games wasn't that unusual.

 

Eovaldi, the all-purpose guy in '18, also had an injury-marred 2019, but rebounded to have solid seasons in 20-21. He has also bounced back this year after Cora was forced to use him in relief in last October's ALCS.

[moonslav59]

As I said, Alex Cora actually did what Nick is suggesting, in the 2018 postseason.

 

Which led to the infamous Restgate.

 

One could also speculate that Price and Porcello were adversely affected by it. They were never really the same. Of course it may have been decline that was in progress anyway.

 

Other managers have done the same sort of thing in the playoffs, but risk is often thrown out the window, when a title is on the line.

 

Look at the Bill Walton example.

[dgalehouse]

Teams do want to be careful with how they use pitchers. Look around MLB and you see that a pitcher is breaking down almost every day as it is. Of course , in the post season there is an " all hands on deck " mentality. Nothing new about that.

[Bellhorn04]

Teams do want to be careful with how they use pitchers. Look around MLB and you see that a pitcher is breaking down almost every day as it is. Of course , in the post season there is an " all hands on deck " mentality. Nothing new about that.

 

There's nothing new about the "all hands on deck", but Cora did try something different in 2018 with having starters pitch an inning or so in late inning relief stints between starts.

[moonslav59]

There's nothing new about the "all hands on deck", but Cora did try something different in 2018 with having starters pitch an inning or so in late inning relief stints between starts.

 

I think the Dodgers used Kershaw in relief in the previous WS.

 

The interesting thing about 2018 was that once Eovaldi volunteered to pitch in relief (in a loss, no less), a line formed outside Cora's door with other starters wanting in on the idea.

[mvp 78]

@NBCSEdgeBB

Chris Sale (ribs) faces hitters Monday in Florida

[moonslav59]

Does anyone know what happened to Sale's ribs?

[mvp 78]

Does anyone know what happened to Sale's ribs?

 

Genetics

[moonslav59]

Genetics

 

Found this...

 

[Larry Cook]

Does anyone know what happened to Sale's ribs?

 

He ate a cheeseburger and the ribs snapped like toothpicks!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He ate a cheeseburger and the ribs snapped like toothpicks!

 

Sox will be deliberate in his rehab: first, he'll be picnicking on flat ground in a meadow, before snacking on a hill -- but no actual hurling for awhile... just little burps.

[moonslav59]

He ate a cheeseburger and the ribs snapped like toothpicks!

 

I heard he sneezed.

 

[Larry Cook]

I heard he sneezed.

 

 

Yes, he sneezed after eating a cheeseburger. Then clutch his side in pain!

[moonslav59]

Here is a breakdown of our pen's blown saves and losses by pitcher.

 

Robles 4 BS, 2 Loses (both were from BS), 1 Win, 2 Svs, 7 Holds

5 games with no BS, Sv, Holds, wins or loses (5 IP 0 ER)

 

1-3 in games with BS

4/23 lost (10th)

5/7 lost (9th)

5/22 won (8-9th inning)

6/11 lost (9th inning)

 

Diekman: 3 BS, O Loses, 2 Wins, 9 Holds

11 games with none of above (10.2 IP 6 ER)

4/26 lost (9th inning)

5/4 lost (9th inning)

5/16 win (6th inning)

 

Brasier:2 BS, 2 Loses, 0 Wins, 3 Svs 5 Holds

15 games with none (15 IP 6 ER)

4/8 lost (10th inning)

4/24 lost (5th inning)

 

Strahm: 2 BS, 2 Loses (1 from BS), 1 Win, 5 Holds

10 games none above: 7.1 IP 1 ER

5/27 lost (8-9t innings)

6/11 lost (7th inning)

 

Davis: 1 BS, 1 Loss, 1 Win, 2 Holds

5/4 lost (6-7 innings)

 

Barnes: 1 BS, 3 Loses, 0 Wins, 2 SVs, 0 Holds

14 other games 12.1 IP 10 ER

4/30 lost (8th inning)

 

Whitlock: 1 BS, 0 Loses, 1 Win, 1 SV, 0 Holds

4/8 lost (6-8 innings)

 

Only 4 saves were blown in the 9th and led to a loss.

 

Out of 14 Blown Saves, 3 were during the same game as another Blown saves, so BS led to 9 loses, since we won 2 games where a blown save occured.

 

I'm really not sure how many more wins we'd have, even if we had a perfect 9th inning traditional closer. Of course, our best pitchers would have been set up men, not closers, and maybe they do better in those roles- maybe not.

 

No doubt, 9 losses due to blown saves is way too much, and when you add the losses by the pen in extra innings and beforehand, it's very bad. I don't think anyone disputes it.

 

That being said, the pen has done better in more games than not, and they've done better or even as the starters in more games than not. That's not making excuses or trying to sugarcoat a bad situation, but I do feel like some posters think they've done poorly more often than ok or well.

 

[notin]

Yes, he sneezed after eating a cheeseburger. Then clutch his side in pain!

 

Liar!! Chris Sale doesn’t have sides!! He’s strictly two dimensional!!

[jacksonianmarch]

Sale is going to compete, of that I have no doubt. But Sale, even if he is completely right, he still doesn't have that top end form anymore. His days of 98-100mph gas when he wants it are gone. One other thing he lacked last year was breaking ball command in the zone. That was how he got a ton of K's in the past. A slider that would look like a strike and then plummet out of the zone. Those sliders didnt leave the zone the last few years he has thrown and has led to a lot of hard contact. Sale, IMO, possesses the stuff and control to transition to a finesse pitcher, I just wonder if he has the mentality. Finesse pitchers can still challenge hitters, but need to challenge them only in certain locations and in certain counts. He can no longer just grip it and rip it and throw a high heater and hope for the best

[Larry Cook]

Sale is going to compete, of that I have no doubt. But Sale, even if he is completely right, he still doesn't have that top end form anymore. His days of 98-100mph gas when he wants it are gone. One other thing he lacked last year was breaking ball command in the zone. That was how he got a ton of K's in the past. A slider that would look like a strike and then plummet out of the zone. Those sliders didnt leave the zone the last few years he has thrown and has led to a lot of hard contact. Sale, IMO, possesses the stuff and control to transition to a finesse pitcher, I just wonder if he has the mentality. Finesse pitchers can still challenge hitters, but need to challenge them only in certain locations and in certain counts. He can no longer just grip it and rip it and throw a high heater and hope for the best

 

Isn’t command of the secondary pitches one of the last things to return after Tommy John?

[Larry Cook]

No lead is safe with this bullpen. 6 to 1 lead up on the cardinals and then the bullpen screws it up.

[vegasbob]

On Monday the 13 pitcher rule goes into effect . Sale may actually be coming back in July . Going to be some people moving to make room. Kutter and Winckowski probably better keep their fridges in Worcester fully stocked.

[moonslav59]

On Monday the 13 pitcher rule goes into effect . Sale may actually be coming back in July . Going to be some people moving to make room. Kutter and Winckowski probably better keep their fridges in Worcester fully stocked.

 

We might see some trades before Monday. Pitchers without options and tough calls to make for several teams may create favorable situations to trade for a RP'er- most likely without options remaining.

 

Maybe some fool would trade for Brasier, Diekman or Barnes.

[a700hitter]

Bloom got some 7+ ERA guy from the Phillies. Yuk!

[Larry Cook]

Why is Robles still on this team? The cardinals should send him a thank you card after his performance tonight!

[oldtimer]

Why is Robles still on this team? The cardinals should send him a thank you card after his performance tonight!

 

We know the Sox BP is weak. We still will have to go through the Yankees, Blue Jays and Rays before the all star break. With our BP, that sounds problematic. Don't think Bloom can rectify the situation this season.

[moonslav59]

We know the Sox BP is weak. We still will have to go through the Yankees, Blue Jays and Rays before the all star break. With our BP, that sounds problematic. Don't think Bloom can rectify the situation this season.

 

Why not?