2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[Nick]

I think Eck shares my sentiment and I'm good with that...'babying" or whatever you want to call it. I call it 'babying'.

 

It's interesting to follow Cora's strategy. There are games he manages very tight but at other times he'll put the worse hitting lineup possible without a care in the world.

 

His record speaks for itself so I'm good with that.

[Nick]

Cora lets Eovaldi throw 101 pitches. I thought he was injury prone? Not anymore?

[Old Red]

It didn't slow up the game at all. It would have had no measurable impact on the game if the announcers didn't guffaw over it.

 

I wasn’t even talking about the pace of the game, but the game being changed so much, because of analytics.

[Bellhorn04]

True, but do you really think we will remain at 76 pitches per start and 4.72 IP per start?

 

Of course, a lot depends on how well our starters do going forward, but assuming they continue doing well, I'm guessing we'll see longer starts by just about all our starters... not 8-9 IP, but more times into the 6th and 7th innings.

 

Haven't we talked a lot about how relievers are being stretched out to pitch more innings now?

[moonslav59]

His FIP has been over 5 the previous 2 seasons. He's pitching great now and being pulled early. Seems like it's working so it must be necessary.

 

I don't disagree. Don't mess with what is working, but things are changing.

 

I think shorter pens and the reduced and delayed ST'ing affect will cause starters to be used a bit longer than they were in April. Now, if they suck, the IP/ GS will go down.

[moonslav59]

Haven't we talked a lot about how relievers are being stretched out to pitch more innings now?

 

Yes, but longer outings and less games played might not always equate to more IP, in total.

 

I'm glad we will be reducing the pen, our 13-15th pitchers have sucked.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, but longer outings and less games played might not always equate to more IP, in total.

 

I'm glad we will be reducing the pen, our 13-15th pitchers have sucked.

 

They usually do.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora lets Eovaldi throw 101 pitches. I thought he was injury prone? Not anymore?

 

He's been healthy since July 2019. What do you want?

[moonslav59]

They usually do.

 

Probably most teams can say the same thing, so no gains will be made.

 

With Taylor's rehab setback and Sale & Paxton too far away to even think about, a 13 man staff might look like this:

 

SP1 Eovaldi

SP2 Wacha

SP3 Hill

SP4 Whitlock

SP5 Pivetta

 

RP1 Houck

RP2 Strahm

RP3 Diekman

RP4 Barnes

RP5 Robles

RP6 Brasier

RP7 Sawamura

RP8 Davis (out of options)

 

Farm

Valdez

Crawford

Danish

Schreiber

Kelly

Ort

Feltman

SP>RP? DHern, Seabold, Winckowski

 

IL: Taylor

 

[moonslav59]

He's been healthy since July 2019. What do you want?

 

2021/Career OPS Against

2021: 1st time> 2nd time> 3rd time through a line-up

Career: 1st time> 2nd time> 3rd time through a line-up

 

Pitcher A

.648>.670>.780

.669>.706>.867

 

Pitcher B

.777>.747>.607

.682>.742>.750

 

Pitcher C

.649>.838>.586

.637>.725>.674

 

Pitcher D

.700>.641> 1.011

.762>.742>.901

 

Pitcher E

.516>.619>1.489

.497>.626>1.017

 

Interesting to note, pitcher A and D were 2 of our top 3 IP and IP per GS'd starters, last year.

 

On paper, using just these numbers and no other factors, it seems like pitchers B & C should be allowed to go beyond 2 times through a line-up more than anyone.

 

 

 

Pitcher A= Eovaldi

Pitcher B= Wacha

Pitcher C= Hill

Pitcher D= Pivetta

Pitcher E= Houck

 

[Bellhorn04]

Last night Cora let Wacha face Trout, the best in the game, a third time. It was Ohtani he didn't want Wacha to face, because he's a LH power hitter and he was the tying run.

 

Sometimes we get fixated on certain things and overlook the specific situation in the game.

[moonslav59]

Last night Cora let Wacha face Trout, the best in the game, a third time. It was Ohtani he didn't want Wacha to face, because he's a LH power hitter and he was the tying run.

 

Sometimes we get fixated on certain things and overlook the specific situation in the game.

 

I'm okay with last night. Your points are well-taken.

 

I'm talking about going forward. I just don't see Wacha as being the type of pitcher who has proven he needs to be yanked after 2 times through. In fact, he's one of our better starters in that light.

[mvp 78]

I'm okay with last night. Your points are well-taken.

 

I'm talking about going forward. I just don't see Wacha as being the type of pitcher who has proven he needs to be yanked after 2 times through. In fact, he's one of our better starters in that light.

 

ERA/OPS Times through the order for Wacha

1st: 1.64/.504

2nd: 0.75/.381

3rd: 3.00/.637

 

ERA/OPS Eovaldi

1st: 3.00/.586

2nd: 2.45/.663

3rd: 1.59/.637

[moonslav59]

ERA/OPS Times through the order for Wacha

1st: 1.64/.504

2nd: 0.75/.381

3rd: 3.00/.637

 

ERA/OPS Eovaldi

1st: 3.00/.586

2nd: 2.45/.663

3rd: 1.59/.637

 

.637 is pretty good, but really, an 11 PA sample size shows me very little.

 

If you look at 2021 and career numbers, Wacha looks okay the 3rd time through, where Nate has been not quite as good.

 

I'd let both go 3 times through, going forward, but of course in game considerations matter, too.

[notin]

He's been healthy since July 2019. What do you want?

 

Exactly. A lot of people can’t say that…

[JDavis76]

He's been healthy since July 2019. What do you want?

 

That's basically about 2 seasons worth of games.

 

That doesn't exactly make one an iron man.....

[moonslav59]

Exactly. A lot of people can’t say that…

 

Didn't he miss a quarter of his starts in 2020? (Like how I did that? 3/12 is 25%.)

[Bellhorn04]

That's basically about 2 seasons worth of games.

 

That doesn't exactly make one an iron man.....

 

That's pretty picky. It was just about him being healthy.

[moonslav59]

That's basically about 2 seasons worth of games.

 

That doesn't exactly make one an iron man.....

 

Indeed. He's only had more than 21 starts once since 2015.

[cp176]

I'm okay with last night. Your points are well-taken.

 

I'm talking about going forward. I just don't see Wacha as being the type of pitcher who has proven he needs to be yanked after 2 times through. In fact, he's one of our better starters in that light.

 

I think that it is pathetic to think that any manager would pull a starter who is pitching well while throwing a limited amount of pitches simply because he is afraid of what might happen with a team seeing him for the third time through. I know what the metrics say but you have to coach to the moment regardless of what any one trend might say. With all of that in mind, I have to say though that I like our starting pitching and I think that I might like it more in a couple of months.

[mvp 78]

I think that it is pathetic to think that any manager would pull a starter who is pitching well while throwing a limited amount of pitches simply because he is afraid of what might happen with a team seeing him for the third time through. I know what the metrics say but you have to coach to the moment regardless of what any one trend might say. With all of that in mind, I have to say though that I like our starting pitching and I think that I might like it more in a couple of months.

 

Cora saw last night as a must win. He didn't mess around. He stopped the bleeding.

[JDavis76]

That's pretty picky. It was just about him being healthy.

 

Not picky at all, just the truth.

[mvp 78]

Eovaldi has only averaged 81 innings a year since the start of 2019. Horrible! He can't stay on the field!

[Old Red]

Cora saw last night as a must win. He didn't mess around. He stopped the bleeding.

 

One man on base on an error is bleeding? Who in that bullpen outside of Whit do you have so much confidence in that you think is more capable of getting a batter out in any situation, but Wacha had only thrown 60 pitches. A must win? Sat, or Sunday wasn’t important to win? Cora already makes plans like he did with Hill, and Houck last time no matter how well Hill was pitching, so he used 2 starters in one game, and only got 7 innings combined when Hill could have gone longer.

[mvp 78]

Eovaldi has only given up 8 earned runs this year... all of which came on 7 home runs.

 

Nobody has scored off him this season if the ball didn't leave the park. LOB king.

[mvp 78]

One man on base on an error is bleeding? Who in that bullpen outside of Whit do you have so much confidence in that you think is more capable of getting a batter out in any situation, but Wacha had only thrown 60 pitches. A must win? Sat, or Sunday wasn’t important to win? Cora already makes plans like he did with Hill, and Houck last time no matter how well Hill was pitching, so he used 2 starters in one game, and only got 7 innings combined when Hill could have gone longer.

 

Stopped the bleeding in terms of the Sox losing every series this season. He's trying to turn the season around here.

[Old Red]

Stopped the bleeding in terms of the Sox losing every series this season. He's trying to turn the season around here.

 

Maybe he should have started when the season began. The team has been pretty much listless since opening day, and that’s on Cora.

[mvp 78]

Maybe he should have started when the season began. The team has been pretty much listless since opening day, and that’s on Cora.

 

He should have told them "get more runs." What a mistake.

[Bellhorn04]

Not picky at all, just the truth.

 

Nope, the truth is that Eovaldi seems very healthy.

[JDavis76]

Stopped the bleeding in terms of the Sox losing every series this season. He's trying to turn the season around here.

 

Exactly how has he prevented the sox from losing this series already?

 

Last I checked they only played 1 game so far of a 3 game series.