2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[moonslav59]

Pitch counts aren't necessarily the big factor.

 

True, but 60 is awfully low.

 

This season: 72, 79, 82, 92, 60

 

Maybe the 92 made Cora think he'd go light, this time, but it's not like 92 is way too much.

 

[Bellhorn04]

True, but 60 is awfully low.

 

This season: 72, 79, 82, 92, 60

 

Maybe the 92 made Cora think he'd go light, this time, but it's not like 92 is way too much.

 

 

My argument is in the reply I posted to Jackson. It was a game situation call. Cora didn't want Wacha to face Ohtani there. Cora was treating this as a virtual must-win.

[mvp 78]

You have to look at the specifics of the game, too.

 

Sox ahead 2-0. Wacha is left in to face Ward and Trout for the third time each. Trout gets on and Ohtani is up with a chance to tie the game. Cora goes to the lefty.

 

Seems like the time to make the move?

[mvp 78]

My argument is in the reply I posted to Jackson. It was a game situation call. Cora didn't want Wacha to face Ohtani there. Cora was treating this as a virtual must-win.

 

And Diekman did his job. Brasier came in and looked great. Sox then scored more runs so they could bring Low Leverage Sawamura in.

[Bellhorn04]

And Diekman did his job. Brasier came in and looked great. Sox then scored more runs so they could bring Low Leverage Sawamura in.

 

Yep. Logical stuff all the way.

[moonslav59]

My argument is in the reply I posted to Jackson. It was a game situation call. Cora didn't want Wacha to face Ohtani there. Cora was treating this as a virtual must-win.

 

I get it. Cora understands all the ins and outs better than I do.

 

That being said, I'd like to see our starters going a bit longer into games, and with ST'ing being delayed and shortened, I can understand why there has been a delay. The expanded pens are now gone, so that's another reason we have seen shorter starts.

[JDavis76]

You have to look at the specifics of the game, too.

 

Sox ahead 2-0. Wacha is left in to face Ward and Trout for the third time each. Trout gets on and Ohtani is up with a chance to tie the game. Cora goes to the lefty.

 

More strain on an already over performing pen.

[mvp 78]

More strain on an already over performing pen.

 

They only have 4 more innings than league average.

[moonslav59]

More strain on an already over performing pen.

 

What pen arm has been over-used, so far?

 

Maybe Whitlock? Maybe not.

[Old Red]

What pen arm has been over-used, so far?

 

Maybe Whitlock? Maybe not.

 

It might not be a problem this early in the season, but to keep up this early season pace all season long will most likely be one later in the season.

[Nick]

What pen arm has been over-used, so far?

 

Maybe Whitlock? Maybe not.

 

Wacha 26 IP 4 ER .095 WHIP .257 AVG

Whitlock 16.2 IP 1 ER .078 WHIP .218 AVG

 

Let's quit babying him. I think they are ready to stretch him and that's my prediction. Not sure if he's been 'overworked'.

 

Last night, Eck was laughing when Wacha got pulled with his 60 or so pitch count. I know what he thinks of current state of pitcher management. I agree with him.

[Old Red]

Wacha 26 IP 4 ER .095 WHIP .257 AVG

Whitlock 16.2 IP 1 ER .078 WHIP .218 AVG

 

Let's quit babying him. I think they are ready to stretch him and that's my prediction. Not sure if he's been 'overworked'.

 

Last night, Eck was laughing when Wacha got pulled with his 60 or so pitch count. I know what he thinks of current state of pitcher management. I agree with him.

That’s today’s game of baseball, which to me is over managing.

[Bellhorn04]

Wacha 26 IP 4 ER .095 WHIP .257 AVG

Whitlock 16.2 IP 1 ER .078 WHIP .218 AVG

 

Let's quit babying him. I think they are ready to stretch him and that's my prediction. Not sure if he's been 'overworked'.

 

Last night, Eck was laughing when Wacha got pulled with his 60 or so pitch count. I know what he thinks of current state of pitcher management. I agree with him.

 

And if Ohtani homered off Wacha to tie it, with Diekman ready, I'm sure they would been yucking it up too.

[Bellhorn04]

It's kind of weird when you win 4-0 and people are still second-guessing the pitching moves.

[Old Red]

It's kind of weird when you win 4-0 and people are still second-guessing the pitching moves.

 

I don’t think it’s weird at all, and as a matter of fact it’s pretty common place when a starting pitcher gets taken out when his pitch count is low, and is pitching a good game, which like I said what the modern day of baseball has become.

[moonslav59]

Wacha 26 IP 4 ER .095 WHIP .257 AVG

Whitlock 16.2 IP 1 ER .078 WHIP .218 AVG

 

Let's quit babying him. I think they are ready to stretch him and that's my prediction. Not sure if he's been 'overworked'.

 

Last night, Eck was laughing when Wacha got pulled with his 60 or so pitch count. I know what he thinks of current state of pitcher management. I agree with him.

 

I think babying our starters stops, real soon. Pens were reduced on May 2nd, and starters should be all caught up from the delayed and shortened ST'ings.

 

It's good to see all of our starters seemingly finding their groove, at just the right time. It does look like we will stick with 13 RP'ers after the 14 man pen extension is ended. 8 RP'ers shuld be enough, when we have Whitlock able to go 2-5 IP, and some others able to go 2 IP.

 

Here are the numbers on our rotation turn-around:

 

Wacha has been great all year, but even he has improved:

1.88 first 3

0.77 last 2

 

Eovaldi

4.50 first 2

1.45 last 3

 

Hill

7.00 first 2

0.00 last 2

 

Pivetta

10.03 first 3

5.00 last 2

[Bellhorn04]

It's not about "babying". Analytics and game planning are the culprit for the quick hooks, if you want one.

[Old Red]

It's not about "babying". Analytics and game planning are the culprit for the quick hooks, if you want one.

 

And not for the better of the game in my opinion.

[moonslav59]

It's not about "babying". Analytics and game planning are the culprit for the quick hooks, if you want one.

 

I do think the delayed & shortened ST'ing and 15 man pens have contributed to less IP'd by starters, too.

 

"Babying" is probably not the right word to use, but I do think we will start seeing our starters go longer into games, especially when we are force to go from 14 to 13 pen arms.

[Bellhorn04]

I do think the delayed & shortened ST'ing and 15 man pens have contributed to less IP'd by starters, too.

 

"Babying" is probably not the right word to use, but I do think we will start seeing our starters go longer into games, especially when we are force to go from 14 to 13 pen arms.

 

They've got guys they can shuttle to help out with the reduced pen number.

[moonslav59]

They've got guys they can shuttle to help out with the reduced pen number.

 

True, but do you really think we will remain at 76 pitches per start and 4.72 IP per start?

 

Of course, a lot depends on how well our starters do going forward, but assuming they continue doing well, I'm guessing we'll see longer starts by just about all our starters... not 8-9 IP, but more times into the 6th and 7th innings.

[mvp 78]

It's kind of weird when you win 4-0 and people are still second-guessing the pitching moves.

 

The problem is that there was a period of time where pitch counts were the big thing and you would monitor how close a guy got to 100 pitches. That was the focus every game. Guy is at 85 pitches, maybe he gets taken out after the inning, maybe he faces a few more batters. Now, it's times through the order. It's just another way of looking at effectiveness.

[mvp 78]

It's not about "babying". Analytics and game planning are the culprit for the quick hooks, if you want one.

 

^^^

[mvp 78]

And not for the better of the game in my opinion.

 

They pulled Wacha after 60 pitches and the game was still over in 2.5 hours. I don't see how anyone could complain about how that game went.

[mvp 78]

They've got guys they can shuttle to help out with the reduced pen number.

 

It's just about stocking up on guys that can go more than one inning at a time. Also, by getting rid of the LOOGY guys and one batter stints, it spreads the innings out more equitably among relief staffs.

[mvp 78]

True, but do you really think we will remain at 76 pitches per start and 4.72 IP per start?

 

Of course, a lot depends on how well our starters do going forward, but assuming they continue doing well, I'm guessing we'll see longer starts by just about all our starters... not 8-9 IP, but more times into the 6th and 7th innings.

 

I do.

[Old Red]

They pulled Wacha after 60 pitches and the game was still over in 2.5 hours. I don't see how anyone could complain about how that game went.

 

Because to me it’s the analytics that controls the game to much, and I will always complain win, or lose, or not watch.

[moonslav59]

The problem is that there was a period of time where pitch counts were the big thing and you would monitor how close a guy got to 100 pitches. That was the focus every game. Guy is at 85 pitches, maybe he gets taken out after the inning, maybe he faces a few more batters. Now, it's times through the order. It's just another way of looking at effectiveness.

 

Wacha's history does not warrant strict 3rd time through the order watching.

[mvp 78]

Because to me it’s the analytics that controls the game to much, and I will always complain win, or lose, or not watch.

 

It didn't slow up the game at all. It would have had no measurable impact on the game if the announcers didn't guffaw over it.

[mvp 78]

Wacha's history does not warrant strict 3rd time through the order watching.

 

His FIP has been over 5 the previous 2 seasons. He's pitching great now and being pulled early. Seems like it's working so it must be necessary.