2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[Nick]

I seriously doubt he does, but there are a few scenarios...

 

1) Move Wacha or Hill to the pen.

2) Assume someone will be on the IL

3) Trade Pivetta while his stock is high---a la Renfroe

 

Again, I don't see it happening, but I'm always thinking about upgrading the rotation.

 

You're asking Bloom to LIE to our free agents? You honestly think Hill signed thinking he maybe moved to the pen? It's one thing to be moved because you SUCKED, aka Richards, it's another to move a veteran to the pen after signing him as a starter.

 

Word gets around. Who in the hell would sign with Sox when we don't keep our word? I hope I don't ever get hired by you.

[moonslav59]

You're asking Bloom to LIE to our free agents? You honestly think Hill signed thinking he maybe moved to the pen? It's one thing to be moved because you SUCKED, aka Richards, it's another to move a veteran to the pen after signing him as a starter.

 

Word gets around. Who in the hell would sign with Sox when we don't keep our word? I hope I don't ever get hired by you.

 

Did they promise both would be starters? (BTW, only Wacha needs to be sent to the pen- something he's done, already. I'm not sure a starter position was promised to him. Areyou?)

 

Bloom said this after the signing of Hill: “We talked about adding starters. We talked about adding to our bullpen and everywhere in between. Rich can do a lot of those different things,” said Bloom. Sounds like his use in the pen was in the mix, when we signed Hill.

 

There's a good chance someone is on the IL for much of 2022, anyway.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The thing is, Oakland is in firesale mode. They already dealt an All-Star pitcher and first baseman. There have other good pitchers they will soon trade to someone. And the Red Sox need good pitchers.

[moonslav59]

The thing is, Oakland is in firesale mode. They already dealt an All-Star pitcher and first baseman. There have other good pitchers they will soon trade to someone. And the Red Sox need good pitchers.

 

They also have a great catcher and two of the best catching prospects in MLB. Two things the Sox need.

 

BTV Values:

C

65.8 Murphy

45.2 Soderstrom

27.8 Shea Langeliers

 

SP

39.6 Montas

14.1 Manaea

 

RP

1.1 Trivino

 

Sox

62.9 Casas

45.2 Yorke

20.2 Duran

16.2 Dalbec

10.3 Bello

9.1 Jordan

8.2 Downs

7.2 Gonzalez

6.0 Lugo

 

Would you give Casas & Gonzalez (or Downs) for Montas, Langeliers & Trivino?

Edited March 14, 2022 by moonslav59

[notin]

Would you deal Casas and Bello for Montas, Chapman and Trivino?

 

BTV does accept it…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Would you deal Casas and Bello for Montas, Chapman and Trivino?

 

BTV does accept it…

 

Nope. How about this accepted deal: Dalbec, Downs, Duran, Lugo and Walter for Montas, Trivino and Kaprielian.

[moonslav59]

Nope. How about this accepted deal: Dalbec, Downs, Duran, Lugo and Walter for Montas, Trivino and Kaprielian.

 

I doubt the A's do that, but I would.

 

Why not try and pry a young catcher from their grasp?

 

Vaz is a FA, next winter.

[moonslav59]

Nope. How about this accepted deal: Dalbec, Downs, Duran, Lugo and Walter for Montas, Trivino and Kaprielian.

 

How's this accepted trade?

 

Duran & Jordan

for

Manaea, Pache & Trivino

[a700hitter]

The rotation is currently:

 

Eovaldi

Sale

Hill

Pivetta

Wacha/Houck/Whitlock

 

The rotation seems good enough to compete on paper and barring injury.

 

Will Sale regain his form somewhat or look how he did in 2021, which wasn't necessarily great?

 

Who becomes the 5th starter?

 

Can they expect anything from Paxton in the 2nd half? Should they just put Paxton in the pen for this year?

What is the over/under on innings from Hill... 50? At least, it could be a good 50.

 

what is the over/under on Wacha... 75? Probably a mediocre to bad 75.

[harmony]

The thing is, Oakland is in firesale mode. They already dealt an All-Star pitcher and first baseman. There have other good pitchers they will soon trade to someone. And the Red Sox need good pitchers.

Many teams need good pitchers.

 

According to Roster Resource, the current No. 5 starter for the Seattle Mariners is 23-year-old righthander Matt Brash, who has never pitched above Double A where he made only 10 appearances. Baseball America ranks Brash No. 45 on its Top 100 prospect list.

 

The Mariners have the financial flexibility and/or prospect assets to swing a deal for another starter.

[moonslav59]

What is the over/under on innings from Hill... 50? At least, it could be a good 50.

 

what is the over/under on Wacha... 75? Probably a mediocre to bad 75.

 

IP, last few years (2021 and going backwards):

 

Hill

159

39

59

132

136

 

Wacha

125

34

127

84

166

138

181

 

Maybe the over/under might be Hill at 75 and Wacha at 100.

 

[a700hitter]

IP, last few years (2021 and going backwards):

 

Hill

159

39

59

132

136

 

Wacha

125

34

127

84

166

138

181

 

Maybe the over/under might be Hill at 75 and Wacha at 100.

 

But Hill is another year older and he is ancient for a starter. Wacha at 100 sounds about right, but we might prefer to get less from him.

[moonslav59]

But Hill is another year older and he is ancient for a starter. Wacha at 100 sounds about right, but we might prefer to get less from him.

 

True enough, but not as much mileage as most 41 year olds.

[a700hitter]

True enough, but not as much mileage as most 41 year olds.

is he only 41? I thought he was older. At 41, he should be able to put up 75 innings. Both would make good poll questions.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Maybe the over/under might be Hill at 75 and Wacha at 100.

 

 

Are these ages or home runs allowed?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Mariners have the financial flexibility and/or prospect assets to swing a deal for another starter.

 

And somewhere on the internet it is rumored that Chaim Bloom is reportedly interested in watching as the M's get one.

[Nick]

Wacha has started 184 of 202 games in his career.

 

Do you have any evidence to think he's okay with coming out of the pen?

 

How in the f*** do I know what was promised? Do you know?

 

Maybe we signed Paxton to be the closer.....Do you know or as a smart guy that you are you would assume he was signed to start.

 

Give me a break Moon.

[notin]

Did they promise both would be starters? (BTW, only Wacha needs to be sent to the pen- something he's done, already. I'm not sure a starter position was promised to him. Areyou?)

 

Bloom said this after the signing of Hill: “We talked about adding starters. We talked about adding to our bullpen and everywhere in between. Rich can do a lot of those different things,” said Bloom. Sounds like his use in the pen was in the mix, when we signed Hill.

 

There's a good chance someone is on the IL for much of 2022, anyway.

 

We do know Wacha was promised $7mill, which is not the kind of money promised to middle relief pitchers.

 

Salary may not dictate a player’s role on a team, but it does certainly indicate their anticipated role…

[moonslav59]

Wacha has started 184 of 202 games in his career.

 

Do you have any evidence to think he's okay with coming out of the pen?

 

How in the f*** do I know what was promised? Do you know?

 

Maybe we signed Paxton to be the closer.....Do you know or as a smart guy that you are you would assume he was signed to start.

 

Give me a break Moon.

 

You did act like you knew they promised they'd both be starters by saying they would have lied by putting them in the pen.

 

Give me a break! Why go off like a rocket?

 

That was one of teh suggestions I made that would make room for adding a starter. I never said I prefer that one.

 

I showed evidence Cora saying after the signing that Hill was viewed as a flexible position pitcher.

[moonslav59]

We do know Wacha was promised $7mill, which is not the kind of money promised to middle relief pitchers.

 

Salary may not dictate a player’s role on a team, but it does certainly indicate their anticipated role…

 

Richards $10M and Perez $5M were both moved to the pen, last year.

[Old Red]

Richards $10M and Perez $5M were both moved to the pen, last year.

 

After they sucked, but not to start the season. I think all starting pitching is going to be iffy to start the season with a shorter ST, so I see the starters not going many innings, and even shorter than usual, so there are going to be plenty of innings to go around until things settle down.

[notin]

Richards $10M and Perez $5M were both moved to the pen, last year.

 

Perez and Richards started 22 games each for the Sox last year and we’re both in the rotation into August. Perez made his first relief appearance August 6th and Richards followed suit a week later on August 13th.

 

These examples might not support the argument you’re making..

[moonslav59]

Perez and Richards started 22 games each for the Sox last year and we’re both in the rotation into August. Perez made his first relief appearance August 6th and Richards followed suit a week later on August 13th.

 

These examples might not support the argument you’re making..

 

I know very well both started much of the season. Maybe it wasn't the best example as both were signed with an apparent understanding they'd start.

 

I'm not sure Wacha was promised anything about starting other than he will start as the front runner for the 5 slot. I would think Hill would have a better understanding he'll be starting, but the quote I provided by Cora sounds like he's is viewed as a flex pitcher. I'm not sure what, if any, promises were made, but Nick sure sounded like he thought it would be a "LIE" if they put either in the pen after adding another SP'er. Then, he yelled, "How the f*** do I know what was promised?"

 

All i know is, teams often add starters to the mix and more than 5 think they should or will start, but one or more do not, at the start of the year.

 

This all came about as a result of me just suggesting 3 ways we could add a starter and make it work. I never said we would or should choose one of the suggestions that said we might move Hill or Wacha to the pen. Hell, many here have been saying Houck and or Whitlock should start, which would mean someone goes to the pen, barring injury.

 

I seriously doubt Wacha will be all that upset, if someone else beats him out of the 5 slot. He pitched 6 games from the pen, last year, including one near the end of the year. He had an ERA of 5.00, too, so why should he feel like he's earned anything?

 

Hill is another story. He's been an exclusive starter for so long, and being so injury prone, I'm not sure I'd mess with him. I'd only put him in the pen, if he's sucking or worse than Wacha or Pivetta as the season progresses.

 

[notin]

I think a lot of people (myself included) prefer an upgrade over the current Sale-Eovaldi-Pivetta-Hill-Wacha rotation. But I’d be surprised if one was coming in the next couple weeks.

 

That said, starter depth is important. And hopefully the Sox can find a pitcher or two they can bury in Worcester until needed. Crawford, Seabold and Bello are probably not enough…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think a lot of people (myself included) prefer an upgrade over the current Sale-Eovaldi-Pivetta-Hill-Wacha rotation. But I’d be surprised if one was coming in the next couple weeks.

 

That said, starter depth is important. And hopefully the Sox can find a pitcher or two they can bury in Worcester until needed. Crawford, Seabold and Bello are probably not enough…

 

Hill and Wacha are concerns just for the fact that both were ditched last year by the Tampa Rays, the mad scientists of pitching alchemy.

 

Hill, at least, led all 41-year-olds with 31 games started... but a first-place team traded him from its rotation midseason.

 

Wacha, on the righty hand, supposedly figured something out at the end of the season -- according to his new team that crushed him for six runs on nine hits in 2.2 IP in his last appearance for a club that liked him so much they started three straight rookies ahead of him.

[moonslav59]

Hill and Wacha are concerns just for the fact that both were ditched last year by the Tampa Rays, the mad scientists of pitching alchemy.

 

Hill, at least, led all 41-year-olds with 31 games started... but a first-place team traded him from its rotation midseason.

 

Wacha, on the righty hand, supposedly figured something out at the end of the season -- according to his new team that crushed him for six runs on nine hits in 2.2 IP in his last appearance for a club that liked him so much they started three straight rookies ahead of him.

 

The Rays are famous for a revolving door.

 

However, your concerns are noteworthy, as many pitchers decline sharply after leaving them.

[moonslav59]

I think a lot of people (myself included) prefer an upgrade over the current Sale-Eovaldi-Pivetta-Hill-Wacha rotation. But I’d be surprised if one was coming in the next couple weeks.

 

That said, starter depth is important. And hopefully the Sox can find a pitcher or two they can bury in Worcester until needed. Crawford, Seabold and Bello are probably not enough…

 

I also feel it is not likely we add a solid starter before the season starts, but I can't help wishing we did.

 

To me, Wacha is the perfect 6th starter/starter depth type pitcher.

 

Winckowski, Seabold, Crawford and Bello should be #7 and beyond.

 

(There's also Houck & Whitlock.)

[mvp 78]

What is the over/under on innings from Hill... 50? At least, it could be a good 50.

 

what is the over/under on Wacha... 75? Probably a mediocre to bad 75.

 

Over/under is probably closer to 85 for Hill. Wacha? Tougher to say as he'll spend a portion of the year in the pen.

[mvp 78]

is he only 41? I thought he was older. At 41, he should be able to put up 75 innings. Both would make good poll questions.

 

He's 42 as of last week.

[notin]

Over/under is probably closer to 85 for Hill. Wacha? Tougher to say as he'll spend a portion of the year in the pen.

 

At 85, I’ll take the over on Hill…