A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[notin]

Personally. I'd have Kike in CF full time and let Arroyo ride it our at 2B as long as possible. I'd have JBJ in RF and Verdugo in LF. I might sit JBJ vs some lefties and have Duran play LF and Verdugo RF, in that scenario, despite the fact that JBJ and Duran both bat lefty. (We should have gotten a RH'd JBJ.)

 

In my scenario, Arauz is the back-up for Arroyo, but we'd have to acquire a decent 2B/utility guy to be able to keep Kike in CF.

 

My guess is we acquire a RH'd hitting CF/RF'er and a decent utility guy who can play a decent 2B and SS, but that was not part of this presentation.

 

If the Sox sign Seiya Suzuki, the picture gets clear, as Suzuki takes RF and Verdugo stays in LF full time. CF is still a bit open but I think we see the Bradley/Arroyo platoon with Kike going between second and CF. Also possible some Tommy Pham type signs on as a true CF platoon partner and the Sox just leave Kike at 2b.

 

I doubt the Sox took on Bradley’s contract to bench him. And while Kike was a revelation in CF, I still think Bradley is the better of the two out there…

[moonslav59]

If the Sox sign Seiya Suzuki, the picture gets clear, as Suzuki takes RF and Verdugo stays in LF full time. CF is still a bit open but I think we see the Bradley/Arroyo platoon with Kike going between second and CF. Also possible some Tommy Pham type signs on as a true CF platoon partner and the Sox just leave Kike at 2b.

 

I doubt the Sox took on Bradley’s contract to bench him. And while Kike was a revelation in CF, I still think Bradley is the better of the two out there…

 

At JBJ's age, I think Kike is better in CF, but it might come down to which is better in RF.

 

LF: Verdugo

CF: JBJ

RF: Kike

 

or

 

LF: Verdugo

CF: Kike

RF: JBJ

 

If you had to choose, which do you like?

 

Yes, I think we sign Suzuki or a Pham type OF'er to make a platoon easier to go to. This may force Duran to start the season in AAA or firmly on the bench.

 

I think the Sox would be happy to have Kike as our FT 2Bman with Arroyo getting some time when Kike is needed or used in the OF (Most likely v LHPs- remember Arroyo's splits are nearly identical, so it matters little which pitchers he faces.))

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

At JBJ's age, I think Kike is better in CF, but it might come down to which is better in RF.

 

LF: Verdugo

CF: JBJ

RF: Kike

 

or

 

LF: Verdugo

CF: Kike

RF: JBJ

 

If you had to choose, which do you like?

 

Yes, I think we sign Suzuki or a Pham type OF'er to make a platoon easier to go to. This may force Duran to start the season in AAA or firmly on the bench.

 

I think the Sox would be happy to have Kike as our FT 2Bman with Arroyo getting some time when Kike is needed or used in the OF (Most likely v LHPs- remember Arroyo's splits are nearly identical, so it matters little which pitchers he faces.))

 

 

 

 

JBJ in RF as I believe he has a stronger arm.

[moonslav59]

JBJ in RF as I believe he has a stronger arm.

 

I concur. (I also think Kike might be slightly better in CF.)

[moonslav59]

I'm hoping for something like this...

 

1. Kike 2B/CF

2. Devers 3B

3. Bogey SS

4. JD DH

5. Suzuki RF

6. Verdugo LF/Dalbec 1B

7. Dalbec 1B/Verdugo LF

8. JBJ CF/Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez

 

Bench: (Arroyo or JBJ), Duran, Plawecki & Arauz

 

SP: Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Pivetta, Wacha (Paxton to 60 day IL)

SP/RP: Whitlock & Houck

RP: McHugh, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, Davis & Sawamura

 

(DHern to AAA)

[moonslav59]

Is there a chance the Sox sign 1-2 players from this list?

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/15/mlb-free-agent-re-rankings-predictions

 

Here's a shortened list:

1. Correa

3. Bryant

4. Story

6. Kershaw

7. Suzuki

9. Rodon

10. Schwarber

11. Jansen

15. Pineda

16. KH Kim

17. Soler

19. McHugh

20. Greinke

21. T Anderson

23. Pham

24. Iggy

25. Villar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notin]

I concur. (I also think Kike might be slightly better in CF.)

 

Kike is the best defensive second baseman on the team. Let’s not forget that…

[moonslav59]

Kike is the best defensive second baseman on the team. Let’s not forget that…

 

In the league, according to Cora.

[notin]

In the league, according to Cora.

 

Kolten Wong might disagree…

[Nick]

I'm hoping for something like this...

 

1. Kike 2B/CF

2. Devers 3B

3. Bogey SS

4. JD DH

5. Suzuki RF

6. Verdugo LF/Dalbec 1B

7. Dalbec 1B/Verdugo LF

8. JBJ CF/Arroyo 2B

9. Vazquez

 

Bench: (Arroyo or JBJ), Duran, Plawecki & Arauz

 

SP: Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Pivetta, Wacha (Paxton to 60 day IL)

SP/RP: Whitlock & Houck

RP: McHugh, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, Davis & Sawamura

 

(DHern to AAA)

 

Very reasonable. I realize D Hern has options remaining, but is Davis that much of an upgrade over D Hern?

[moonslav59]

Very reasonable. I realize D Hern has options remaining, but is Davis that much of an upgrade over D Hern?

 

Not in my opinion, but you nailed it on the options remaining:

 

0 Davis

1 Valdez, Brasier

2 DHern, Taylor, Bazardo

3 Sawamura, Crawford, Winckowski

 

[moonslav59]

Kolten Wong might disagree…

 

Maybe Cora mean the American League or was just pumping Kike up.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

JBJ is the best defensive centerfielder on the Red Sox roster. Kike had a great year in '21 -- after he learned CF in Fenway (he got mediocre jumps on some deep drives early) -- and was excellent coming in on the ball and robbing liners. But no one saves more extra base hits in Boston than Bradley; I don't ever remember Jackie catching up to and then dropping a ball like what happened in the last game of the ALCS.

 

Also from my observations of Verdugo the past two years, his best outfield position is RF.

[notin]

Agree on Bradley.

 

Metrics tell a different story with Verdugo. But I think he’s got the ability (and arm!) to be a very good Fenway RF…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Agree on Bradley.

 

Metrics tell a different story with Verdugo. But I think he’s got the ability (and arm!) to be a very good Fenway RF…

 

He's better than Clint Frazier, ha. But without looking at data, most eyes might agree with mine that Duggie was not as good in CF than the corners last year...

[Old Red]

JBJ is the best defensive centerfielder on the Red Sox roster. Kike had a great year in '21 -- after he learned CF in Fenway (he got mediocre jumps on some deep drives early) -- and was excellent coming in on the ball and robbing liners. But no one saves more extra base hits in Boston than Bradley; I don't ever remember Jackie catching up to and then dropping a ball like what happened in the last game of the ALCS.

 

Also from my observations of Verdugo the past two years, his best outfield position is RF.

 

Well said on everything, but Cora hasn’t said a word about what the plan was for the OF after the big blockbuster trade to bring JBJ back to town. At this point it’s just everybody speculating.

[notin]

Well said on everything, but Cora hasn’t said a word about what the plan was for the OF after the big blockbuster trade to bring JBJ back to town. At this point it’s just everybody speculating.

 

 

No point in anything but speculation until we (including Cora!) know who’s actually on the roster…

[moonslav59]

Agree on Bradley.

 

Metrics tell a different story with Verdugo. But I think he’s got the ability (and arm!) to be a very good Fenway RF…

 

Metrics show Kike is better in CF, and he's over 2 years younger.

[notin]

Metrics show Kike is better in CF, and he's over 2 years younger.

 

Kike’s data isn’t as consistent. Plus it’s possible playing next to Betts did hurt JBJ’s numbers a little…

[Nick]

I noticed only 6 AL DH's 'qualified' during 2021, meaning they had enough at bats at the position of DH.

 

I realize we are going to universal DH in 2022, owners touting additional 15 'openings'.

 

Is that a reality? Will the teams use that position to rotate regulars, giving them day off in the field?

 

I'm just skeptical that an older player will prolong his career. Usually they end their career when they quit hitting, no?

[notin]

I noticed only 6 AL DH's 'qualified' during 2021, meaning they had enough at bats at the position of DH.

 

I realize we are going to universal DH in 2022, owners touting additional 15 'openings'.

 

Is that a reality? Will the teams use that position to rotate regulars, giving them day off in the field?

 

I'm just skeptical that an older player will prolong his career. Usually they end their career when they quit hitting, no?

 

Most end their careers when no one will hire them. Sometimes they can’t hit any more, but if they can’t play anywhere in the field, only 15 teams will even talk to them.

 

Remember, Barry Bonds posted a 1.045 OPS in his last season (at age 42!!). And he was playing the outfield. Ever wonder what he (and that nuclear waste treatment plant coursing through his veins) could have done if he just focused on hitting?

[moonslav59]

Kike’s data isn’t as consistent. Plus it’s possible playing next to Betts did hurt JBJ’s numbers a little…

 

Why the dip in Bettsless 2020?

[notin]

Why the dip in Bettsless 2020?

 

So now you’re trying to argue defensive metrics based on single seasons?

 

He also had a career best 2021 without Betts.

Edited February 18, 2022 by notin

[moonslav59]

So now you’re trying to argue defensive metrics based on single seasons?

 

He also had a career best 2021 without Betts.

 

That was a single season, too.

 

It's a tough call, but I like Kike in CF and JBJ in RF (platoon?).

 

I'm higher on Arroyo than most here.

[moonslav59]

JBJ's 3 year stretches

 

'13-'15

11.3 UZR/150

17 DRS in 1319 innings (1 per 78 innings)

 

'16-'18

7.4 UZR/150

29 DRS in 3717 innings (1 per 128innings)

 

'19-'21

4.3 UZR/150

14 DRS in 2440 innings (1 per 174 innings)

 

His defensive prime was 2014-2018

8.9 UZR/150

47 DRS in 4890 innings (1 per 104 innings)

 

[Old Red]

JBJ's 3 year stretches

 

'13-'15

11.3 UZR/150

17 DRS in 1319 innings (1 per 78 innings)

 

'16-'18

7.4 UZR/150

29 DRS in 3717 innings (1 per 128innings)

 

'19-'21

4.3 UZR/150

14 DRS in 2440 innings (1 per 174 innings)

 

His defensive prime was 2014-2018

8.9 UZR/150

47 DRS in 4890 innings (1 per 104 innings)

 

 

The big question with JBJ is not about his D, but can he hit. I didn’t like the trade to bring back when it happened, and I still don’t like it now. There had to be better options out there, and cheaper ones at that, and maybe even someone who batted RH. I know Kike is Moon’s boy, and nothing wrong with that, but like I said can LBJ hit that will be the big decider.

[mvp 78]

The big question with JBJ is not about his D, but can he hit. I didn’t like the trade to bring back when it happened, and I still don’t like it now. There had to be better options out there, and cheaper ones at that, and maybe even someone who batted RH. I know Kike is Moon’s boy, and nothing wrong with that, but like I said can LBJ hit that will be the big decider.

 

His offense was absolutely putrid last season. I don't think anyone knows if it was an aberration or just due to being the wrong side of 30.

 

Renfroe for JBJ and 2 prospects only makes sense if Bloom believes in a bounce back AND he really likes the prospects. Of all the moves he's made, this is the one that could blow up in his face.

[Old Red]

The big question with JBJ is not about his D, but can he hit. I didn’t like the trade to bring back when it happened, and I still don’t like it now. There had to be better options out there, and cheaper ones at that, and maybe even someone who batted RH. I know Kike is Moon’s boy, and nothing wrong with that, but like I said can LBJ hit that will be the big decider.

 

Kike himself has only been a 230 hitter his past 6 seasons,and while he had some real hot stretches last year he only finished a 250 hitter, so take away the real hot stretches that he had last year that he might not do this year, and you don’t have someone as great as what some viewed him on here.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

His offense was absolutely putrid last season. I don't think anyone knows if it was an aberration or just due to being the wrong side of 30.

 

Renfroe for JBJ and 2 prospects only makes sense if Bloom believes in a bounce back AND he really likes the prospects. Of all the moves he's made, this is the one that could blow up in his face.

 

Exactly. That's why it's fun.

[Bellhorn04]

Kike himself has only been a 230 hitter his past 6 seasons,and while he had some real hot stretches last year he only finished a 250 hitter, so take away the real hot stretches that he had last year that he might not do this year, and you don’t have someone as great as what some viewed him on here.

 

And yet you're worried about losing Renfroe's bat, because of the 96 RBI, despite the fact Hunter is a 237 career hitter?