A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[moonslav59]

I'm not riled up. I just think it's nutty. And I'm not a big prospect lover myself. But I know that they have a lot of potential value. Look at what we got for the prospects Dombrowski traded. That was only a few years ago.

 

I'm excited our farm looks more promising than 1-4 years ago. It may not pan out, or we may trade some prospects before they get a chance to shine or flop, but it's all about speculation and improving your chances by improving talent on your 26 man roster and farm.

[moonslav59]

Personally I think Price was a pretty small part of the Betts trade. It was a convenient opportunity to get someone to take on half of Price's salary. But I'm pretty sure if the Dodgers said no to it, the trade would have proceeded with little change to what we got back.

 

As for Bradley, I think Bloom feels he still has positive value. His defense should be a plus if nothing else.

 

I thought we gained by losing Price and half his salary, but it was close to a push, at the time, so yes: I agree.

 

Our defense was God awful, last year, so maybe that was part of why the JBJ deal was done. It effectively improved 2 positions, defensively if you believe JBJ > Kike in the OF, like many here seem to believe.

[moonslav59]

Well, he did sign 3 guys-Paxton, Wacha and Hill. Plus exercising Vaz's option, plus the extra salary for JBJ. Plus arb raises. It all adds up.

 

We'll be close to the tax threshold one way or another.

 

He's likely not done spending, either.

 

People said the same, last winter, but Bloom spent about $40M on 2021 salary. The thing that made it hardly noticeable was that he had to spread it out over 10 roster slots.

 

This year, it might only need to be 5-7 slots, so maybe the talent level can be more promising. (Not like 2021 worked out all that badly.)

[notin]

Yes, keeping Betts during a season in which Ryan Weber was the #3 starter would have been a ridiculous waste…

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, keeping Betts during a season in which Ryan Weber was the #3 starter would have been a ridiculous waste…

 

Well, not to re-litigate, but signing him to an extension would have been okay...

[moonslav59]

Yes, keeping Betts during a season in which Ryan Weber was the #3 starter would have been a ridiculous waste…

 

That's the major point behind the logic of the trade.

 

Yes, keeping Betts might have improved our odds of keeping him beyond that one awful season, but it seems clear that was not going to happen, and had it did happen, the cost of his contract would be a key factor in determining which path was the better one to take.

 

I wish we still had Betts, but it really comes down to this:

 

1 year of Betts, call Price a push vs 4 years of Verdugo and some promise from 2 prospects.

 

or

 

11 years of Betts and his salary vs 4 years of Verdugo, 2 prospects with some promise and a boatload of money to spend over 10 years on several players.

[notin]

Well, not to re-litigate, but signing him to an extension would have been okay...

 

At the time, he was not very amenable…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Re. JBJ -- Bloom doesn't seem like a guy so quick to change his mind; but I'm only basing this on some painstaking and deliberate (they don't have to be redundant) transactions late in the offseason or at the trade deadline. Then again, maybe some guys in the analytics dept. had data on the D he couldn't ignore... or Cora begged him to bring back Jackie.

 

As for Price, I've said it before, I think his addition by subtraction wasn't just to save half his salary or because his pitching wasn't worth it any more, but because his public perception with the media and by many fans was such a drag on the franchise. And while I agree one of the reasons Bloom was hired was to trade Mookie, I also think dumping Price was the first priority in the mandate to dip payroll below the tax line.

[Bellhorn04]

As for Price, I've said it before, I think his addition by subtraction wasn't just to save half his salary or because his pitching wasn't worth it any more, but because his public perception with the media and by many fans was such a drag on the franchise. And while I agree one of the reasons Bloom was hired was to trade Mookie, I also think dumping Price was the first priority in the mandate to dip payroll below the tax line.

 

Trading Mookie cut 27 mill from the payroll. Trading Price cut 15 mill. Not sure I follow your logic.

[notin]

Trading Mookie cut 27 mill from the payroll. Trading Price cut 15 mill. Not sure I follow your logic.

 

 

I can see a mandate of “cut payroll” or “reset the tax limit”. But I doubt Price was singled out.

 

Think if Bloom had dealt Eovaldi, he’d still be told to unload Price?

[Bellhorn04]

I can see a mandate of “cut payroll” or “reset the tax limit”. But I doubt Price was singled out.

 

Think if Bloom had dealt Eovaldi, he’d still be told to unload Price?

 

Sorry, but I find that a distasteful hypothetical.

[dgalehouse]

You don't evaluate the chef on the ingredients he adds , but rather on how good the meal is. Bloom will , or at least should , be evaluated on how the team does. How many A.L. East titles and World Series championships he wins. That has to be the bottom line.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trading Mookie cut 27 mill from the payroll. Trading Price cut 15 mill. Not sure I follow your logic.

 

Is it logical for a team that offered a guy $300 mil to be happy they didn't have to pay him $27? Most people here, at least, assumed -- and applauded -- trading Mookie just so the Sox could get bodies back before he walked. Price was the most overpriced (some would argue since the day Dombro signed him).

[Bellhorn04]

Is it logical for a team that offered a guy $300 mil to be happy they didn't have to pay him $27?

 

I really don't think they were happy about it. They were in a bad spot, acted out of desperation and the result was less than a disaster, so if that's happiness, then I guess they were happy.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I really don't think they were happy about it. They were in a bad spot, acted out of desperation and the result was less than a disaster, so if that's happiness, then I guess they were happy.

 

Man, this site needs a settlement soon so Bloom can get back to work acquiring some 4A relievers no one's ever heard of, so we can complain about something new.

[notin]

Sorry, but I find that a distasteful hypothetical.

 

 

It’s simply just an equivalent salary…

[notin]

I really don't think they were happy about it. They were in a bad spot, acted out of desperation and the result was less than a disaster, so if that's happiness, then I guess they were happy.

 

That’s all conjecture…

[moonslav59]

It's been just over 2 years since the Mookie deal.

 

The wound still seems so fresh for so many.

 

(And, this from someone who suggested maybe topping out at $400M/12 to keep him.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's been just over 2 years since the Mookie deal.

 

The wound still seems so fresh for so many.

 

(And, this from someone who suggested maybe topping out at $400M/12 to keep him.)

 

If you think it's raw now, just wait until they overpay for someone else not as good...

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie missed 40 games in the first year of his 12 year extension. Some might call that a sign of the risks right there.

[Bellhorn04]

If you think it's raw now, just wait until they overpay for someone else not as good...

 

You seem quite convinced that's going to happen.

 

And your argument is pretty simplistic. This franchise has already overpaid plenty of guys and survived it. They flushed a quarter billion on Pablo, Hanley and Rusney.

 

If you think they're going to jump in on a $300 mill guy like Correa any day, you might be waiting a long time.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You seem quite convinced that's going to happen.

 

And your argument is pretty simplistic. This franchise has already overpaid plenty of guys and survived it. They flushed a quarter billion on Pablo, Hanley and Rusney.

 

If you think they're going to jump in on a $300 mill guy like Correa any day, you might be waiting a long time.

 

I don't think Correa is happening because he's just not a priority. Bloom has Xander this season (and to maybe extend), and his best prospect is a shortstop who may be here in a few years (like Bogie and Devers, when they made it at age 20).

 

Actually, locking up a kid like Mayer or who knows, Yorke or Casas, if they hit instant stardom might make more sense for Bloom than pursuing someone like Soto when he's a free agent at age 26 (with eight years of mileage on his bod). The point is none of the first-year types, including Wander, are more proven as an investment than Mookie was in his five+ years in Boston.

[Bellhorn04]

Actually, locking up a kid like Mayer or who knows, Yorke or Casas, if they hit instant stardom might make more sense for Bloom than pursuing someone like Soto when he's a free agent at age 26 (with eight years of mileage on his bod). The point is none of the first-year types, including Wander, are more proven as an investment than Mookie was in his five+ years in Boston.

 

I get that. But Mookie is not a sure thing going forward either. Nobody is. Aging and injuries can turn anyone into a bad investment quickly.

 

Mookie is #2 to Trout's #1. Trout might be one of the 5 best players of all time.

 

And Trout played 36 games this year. Who can say if he now has a health issue that will plague him the rest of the way? No one is exempt.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I get that. But Mookie is not a sure thing going forward either. Nobody is. Aging and injuries can turn anyone into a bad investment quickly.

 

Mookie is #2 to Trout's #1. Trout might be one of the 5 best players of all time.

 

And Trout played 36 games this year. Who can say if he now has a health issue that will plague him the rest of the way? No one is exempt.

 

Of course not. But front offices have to look at guys that are the best bets, and consider factors that drive consistency, like personality and healthy lifestyles. I've just never been that hung up on body size, not when Stanton and Judge are hurt every year (though I'm not saying they're partying dudes, either).

[Bellhorn04]

Of course not. But front offices have to look at guys that are the best bets, and consider factors that drive consistency, like personality and healthy lifestyles. I've just never been that hung up on body size, not when Stanton and Judge are hurt every year (though I'm not saying they're partying dudes, either).

 

I've never suggested that Mookie's size would have anything to do with him regressing. But it's a fact that he had a multiplicity of little injuries this year that combined to keep him off the field for 40 games. And he turns 30 in October, with 10 more years on his contract after this year.

 

These contracts are just ridiculously long, it's as simple as that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I've never suggested that Mookie's size would have anything to do with him regressing. But it's a fact that he had a multiplicity of little injuries this year that combined to keep him off the field for 40 games. And he turns 30 in October, with 10 more years on his contract after this year.

 

These contracts are just ridiculously long, it's as simple as that.

 

They're even worse for pitchers. I couldn't imagine anyone ever offering a longer, worse contract for a pitcher than the one to David Price. And then along came Cole...

[Bellhorn04]

They're even worse for pitchers. I couldn't imagine anyone ever offering a longer, worse contract for a pitcher than the one to David Price. And then along came Cole...

 

Hey, don't forget Strasburg.

 

7 years, 245 million 2020-2026 - more money than Price.

 

In the first 1.4 years of that deal, the Nats have gotten a total of 26.2 innings out of him with an ERA of 5.74.

 

And he turns 34 in July.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Hey, don't forget Strasburg.

 

7 years, 245 million 2020-2026 - more money than Price.

 

In the first 1.4 years of that deal, the Nats have gotten a total of 26.2 innings out of him with an ERA of 5.74.

 

And he turns 34 in July.

 

Good comp. Though when I was at a Nats game, I noticed fans actually wearing his uni shirt.

[Nick]

Hey, don't forget Strasburg.

 

7 years, 245 million 2020-2026 - more money than Price.

 

In the first 1.4 years of that deal, the Nats have gotten a total of 26.2 innings out of him with an ERA of 5.74.

 

And he turns 34 in July.

 

Lets think about this further. One can argue that it's exactly these long term mega deals that's killing the apatite of many owners from spending more on 'average' baseball players. In essence, players have the responsibility of preventing owners from themselves.

 

If I'm a union member, I'd tell Cole's of the world to f*** off. He has absolutely no interest in the majority of union members. Each team should select as its player rep the player that's earning the median salary for that team.

 

What's better for baseball players? One guy earning $30M versus 3 players earning $10M apiece? Who puts better product on the field? I'd argue that WINNING trumps any star power. On a winning team, a star will rise.

 

Betts who? The Dodgers won the most meaningless world series championship in history of baseball.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Nick

[moonslav59]

If you think it's raw now, just wait until they overpay for someone else not as good...

 

Maybe that's one reason why they haven't done that!