A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[oldtimer]

Nothing good happens without quality starting pitching staff. Need starters that can right the ship when the team goes south. Now we're down to Chris Sale because our manager doesn't trust Houck. He trusts every other lousy pitchers on our staff.

The Rays operate without a lot of starters. They have a low budget but find a way. Their top ace is out for the year.

[Bellhorn04]

The Rays operate without a lot of starters. They have a low budget but find a way. Their top ace is out for the year.

 

The Rays are unique. No one is doing what they are doing. They must have the best analytics and coaching team, hands down.

[Nick]

The Rays operate without a lot of starters. They have a low budget but find a way. Their top ace is out for the year.

 

They play good defense. They're able to score despite not having bunch of $10M hitters.

[moonslav59]

The Rays are unique. No one is doing what they are doing. They must have the best analytics and coaching team, hands down.

 

They do all the things not captured by stats very well. They don’t have to pay their players as much as others, because on paper, they are not as good.

[oldtimer]

They do all the things not captured by stats very well. They don’t have to pay their players as much as others, because on paper, they are not as good.

 

The Rays started Chris Archer today and told him to go as long as he could as hard as he could. Archer was rejected from the Pirates and back off of injury. Archer now tops out at 93 mph. He went two innings followed by 4 other pitchers, each contributing so they held the mighty White Sox to 0 runs while piling on 9 of their own. Quite embarrassing for the White Sox I would think although they did not fold like the Red Sox accordion act yesterday, but just couldn't muster offense and couldn't stop the Rays. Some say the Rays can't use pitchers as they do, but the proof is in the pudding. Good defense, timely hitting and what appears to be expert handling of their pitching is winning a lot of games.

[moonslav59]

The Rays started Chris Archer today and told him to go as long as he could as hard as he could. Archer was rejected from the Pirates and back off of injury. Archer now tops out at 93 mph. He went two innings followed by 4 other pitchers, each contributing so they held the mighty White Sox to 0 runs while piling on 9 of their own. Quite embarrassing for the White Sox I would think although they did not fold like the Red Sox accordion act yesterday, but just couldn't muster offense and couldn't stop the Rays. Some say the Rays can't use pitchers as they do, but the proof is in the pudding. Good defense, timely hitting and what appears to be expert handling of their pitching is winning a lot of games.

 

Archer had to leave the game due to a hip injury.

 

Cruz has a COVID issue.

 

Choi pulled a hammy.

 

The Rays don’t even blink.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Bloom may move Bogaerts if he doesn’t re-sign this offseason

[Oscars]

I love Bogeys bat, but I don’t want his very average glove at SS for the next few years .

If he stays I would like to see him play 3rd and Devers move to 1st base.

[moonslav59]

I love Bogeys bat, but I don’t want his very average glove at SS for the next few years .

If he stays I would like to see him play 3rd and Devers move to 1st base.

 

I’m not sure Bogey is an upgrade at 3B nor Devers at 1B, but the idea makes some sense, if we add an excellent defensive SS.

[jad]

Stop! The tactic of getting rid of productive and popular players is a great recipe for turning your fan base into the Rays fan base.

[moonslav59]

Stop! The tactic of getting rid of productive and popular players is a great recipe for turning your fan base into the Rays fan base.

 

Yes, winning drives fans away.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’m not sure Bogey is an upgrade at 3B nor Devers at 1B, but the idea makes some sense, if we add an excellent defensive SS.

 

Not coincidentally, after our posts about the porous D, Speier sums it up in today's Globe:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/22/sports/saturdays-debacle-flashpoint-glaring-red-sox-issue-defense/

 

Like I said yesterday, it's too late to make any major improvements now (except take the glove away from JD). They may still eek out a WC slot, but expect huge changes over the winter. Posters get down on Beni, JBJ and even Mookie (for his "greed"), but their D was such an underrated part of the best Sox team ever, on a staff of fly ball pitchers. And this season's outfield, as bad as it is, has been the bright area on the field...

[jad]

Yes, winning drives fans away.

 

Now now! If success were the only factor in fan support, why don't the Rays pack their stadium in all season? "Winning/losing" doesn't seem to have affected the support for the team among us here, and most of us survived a good part of that 86-year drought without a hitch (although I guess the bean-counters look at that evidence and say 'See? Don't worry about die-hard fans; they'll support us no matter what we do. The ones who put the pennies in the seats will only come if we win and don't give a rat's behind who they're watching, or whether they've ever heard of them.)

[moonslav59]

Now now! If success were the only factor in fan support, why don't the Rays pack their stadium in all season? "Winning/losing" doesn't seem to have affected the support for the team among us here, and most of us survived a good part of that 86-year drought without a hitch (although I guess the bean-counters look at that evidence and say 'See? Don't worry about die-hard fans; they'll support us no matter what we do. The ones who put the pennies in the seats will only come if we win and don't give a rat's behind who they're watching, or whether they've ever heard of them.)

 

They don't pack their stadium, because they picked the wrong place to have a team. Most of the people living in that area are transplants who already have a favorite team, and it ain't the Rays. (I'm a huge baseball fan, and I live in Houston. Guess how many Astros games I've gone to or watched on TV? Zero, except the 2 Sox games I went to.)

 

You really think trading Bogey for something special will turn our fan base into the Rays fan base?

 

Nobody is saying hand Bogey away for nothing. If we traded him, we'd get something very nice back (a pitcher) and replace him with a much better defensive SS (I hope).

 

I'd miss Bogey, for sure, but not his serious lack of range at a position where range is very important.

 

We may lose Bogey after 2022, anyway, so I'd at least entertain offers and only trade him, if the return was right.

Edited August 23, 2021 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Not coincidentally, after our posts about the porous D, Speier sums it up in today's Globe:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/22/sports/saturdays-debacle-flashpoint-glaring-red-sox-issue-defense/

 

Like I said yesterday, it's too late to make any major improvements now (except take the glove away from JD). They may still eek out a WC slot, but expect huge changes over the winter. Posters get down on Beni, JBJ and even Mookie (for his "greed"), but their D was such an underrated part of the best Sox team ever, on a staff of fly ball pitchers. And this season's outfield, as bad as it is, has been the bright area on the field...

 

And our big deadline move, getting Schwarber, made the defense worse by putting JD in the outfield. Yikes!

[Bellhorn04]

And Duran's early defensive grades are not very impressive - vastly worse than Kike's were in CF.

 

A bit of a cluster, isn't it?

[notin]

And Duran's early defensive grades are not very impressive - vastly worse than Kike's were in CF.

 

A bit of a cluster, isn't it?

 

Duran may come around with the bat and the glove, but right now he’s a Work In Progress on both fronts, and really, not needed on this sinking ship.

 

Now I’ve never been all that wild about him as a prospect, but that’s not the issue anyway. With Schwarber on board, and with Arroyo returning soon, Duran’s playing time could easily be severely impacted anyway. He might go back to Worcester when Arroyo gets activated, which might e this week. This is not so bad because for this year, the AAA season runs through September, so he will get on the field a lot more and can work out his issues there…

[Elktonnick]

While I do not live in the Tampa area and would defer to those that do, when I have gone to Rays games there, I am told by Rays fans there the biggest drawback to attendance is the location of the Trop itself. The hockey team figured it out and moved to a better part of the greater Tampa area. The Trop is a dump and located in a terrible spot.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

They do all the things not captured by stats very well. They don’t have to pay their players as much as others, because on paper, they are not as good.

 

Lucky for the Rays that baseball fields are covered with turf and not paper.

[moonslav59]

While I do not live in the Tampa area and would defer to those that do, when I have gone to Rays games there, I am told by Rays fans there the biggest drawback to attendance is the location of the Trop itself. The hockey team figured it out and moved to a better part of the greater Tampa area. The Trop is a dump and located in a terrible spot.

 

I went to a game there many years back. It was the Sox opener in the closer by committee year.

 

I kinda liked the stadium, but I guess I am alone.

[mvp 78]

Now now! If success were the only factor in fan support, why don't the Rays pack their stadium in all season? "Winning/losing" doesn't seem to have affected the support for the team among us here, and most of us survived a good part of that 86-year drought without a hitch (although I guess the bean-counters look at that evidence and say 'See? Don't worry about die-hard fans; they'll support us no matter what we do. The ones who put the pennies in the seats will only come if we win and don't give a rat's behind who they're watching, or whether they've ever heard of them.)

 

The Rays have good tv ratings. Their stadium is just a pain in the ass to get to and depressing as all get out.

[mvp 78]

Duran may come around with the bat and the glove, but right now he’s a Work In Progress on both fronts, and really, not needed on this sinking ship.

 

Now I’ve never been all that wild about him as a prospect, but that’s not the issue anyway. With Schwarber on board, and with Arroyo returning soon, Duran’s playing time could easily be severely impacted anyway. He might go back to Worcester when Arroyo gets activated, which might e this week. This is not so bad because for this year, the AAA season runs through September, so he will get on the field a lot more and can work out his issues there…

 

My worry is that if he goes back to the launching pad he will continue his bad habits. The lazy flyballs that go for HR's in RF in WOO won't go out in BOS. It's probably going to take him the offseason to figure this out.

[jacksonianmarch]

I’ve got a feeling you’ll see a vastly different defense next year. Bloom is all about value and right now good defenders are still undervalued. Deal Bogey, move Devers to 1b. JD opts out. Durran to LF. Kike in Cf. He’ll bring in guys who play solid D and watch the pitching improve. Add offense as the farm starts to bear fruit

[moonslav59]

I’ve got a feeling you’ll see a vastly different defense next year. Bloom is all about value and right now good defenders are still undervalued. Deal Bogey, move Devers to 1b. JD opts out. Durran to LF. Kike in Cf. He’ll bring in guys who play solid D and watch the pitching improve. Add offense as the farm starts to bear fruit

 

That could happen, as Bloom moves to put a firm stamp on this being "his club, now," but that seems rather radical. Not impossible, though.

 

I do think Kike in CF makes the most sense. I said that the first day we signed him Renfroe in RF works well, especially, if he can stay near .800.

 

I don't see Duran beating out Verdugo in LF in 2021. Maybe they trade one of them, but more likely, Duran is the 4th OF'er, and when Kike is needed at 2B, he plays more than most true 4th OF'ers.

[mvp 78]

I’ve got a feeling you’ll see a vastly different defense next year. Bloom is all about value and right now good defenders are still undervalued. Deal Bogey, move Devers to 1b. JD opts out. Durran to LF. Kike in Cf. He’ll bring in guys who play solid D and watch the pitching improve. Add offense as the farm starts to bear fruit

 

They aren't moving Devers to 1b when their best prospect is a 1b.

[moonslav59]

They aren't moving Devers to 1b when their best prospect is a 1b.

 

Mayer is our best prospect, but your point is well taken.

 

I doubt they move him, too, and he keeps teasing us by going long stretches of looking pretty good on defense at 3B- making us believe he can do it.

 

I've sometimes thought of moving Bogey to 2B, but he's not moving anywhere, except maybe to a new team after 2022.

[mvp 78]

Mayer is our best prospect, but your point is well taken.

 

I doubt they move him, too, and he keeps teasing us by going long stretches of looking pretty good on defense at 3B- making us believe he can do it.

 

I've sometimes thought of moving Bogey to 2B, but he's not moving anywhere, except maybe to a new team after 2022.

 

According to Baseball America, Casas is #1.

[notin]

Mayer is our best prospect, but your point is well taken.

 

I doubt they move him, too, and he keeps teasing us by going long stretches of looking pretty good on defense at 3B- making us believe he can do it.

 

I've sometimes thought of moving Bogey to 2B, but he's not moving anywhere, except maybe to a new team after 2022.

 

Moving to a new team after 2022 is currently just an option Bogaerts has. Moving him to a new position for 2022 probably seals that decision for him…

[notin]

They aren't moving Devers to 1b when their best prospect is a 1b.

 

That shouldn’t be a factor. A team shouldn’t build their major league roster around their minor prospects.

 

If Devers’ is viewed as a good first baseman but an insufficient third baseman and his future is better at 1st, then the Sox will have to find a way to deal with the depth problem.

 

I doubt Devers is moved to first, and I doubt Casas has anything to do with that decision…

[moonslav59]

According to Baseball America, Casas is #1.

 

Well, then that just proves my point.

 

LOL