A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[Kimmi]

The problem is that winning doesn't matter anymore. These teams can be absolute dog s*** and the value of the club will still rise. It's an investment for some. it's a plaything for others.

 

Hogwash that winning doesn't matter anymore. Pure hogwash.

[moonslav59]

It's not like the Red Sox are penny pinchers though. Yes, they have seemingly been so the last year and this (Thanks Dave!), but that's because they have to rebuild. In theory, they could exceed the tax limit every year. In reality, that's not going to happen. Besides, it's smart to try to build a better team with less money. What's wrong with that idea?

 

Even this past winter, we spent way more on new contracts than most teams.

[Kimmi]

 

Even this past winter, we spent way more on new contracts than most teams.

 

Henry and the Red Sox will continue to have payrolls right around the luxury tax limit each year, going over in some, resetting in others.

[moonslav59]

Henry and the Red Sox will continue to have payrolls right around the luxury tax limit each year, going over in some, resetting in others.

 

I think we go significantly over in 2022.

 

With the amount of money coming off the books and not many key slots needing to filled with expensive players, I see us being right near the top next year- 2023 at the latest.

 

My big hope is that this time the window stays open longer than 3-4 years.

[Kimmi]

I think we go significantly over in 2022.

 

With the amount of money coming off the books and not many key slots needing to filled with expensive players, I see us being right near the top next year- 2023 at the latest.

 

My big hope is that this time the window stays open longer than 3-4 years.

 

Well, that is the plan. Long term sustainability. To get there, you have to show some patience up front.

[moonslav59]

Well, that is the plan. Long term sustainability. To get there, you have to show some patience up front.

 

Exactly, and part of that was showing restraint, this deadline and not doing anything rash last winter until we learned more about what slots we could fill from within the system.

 

By starting off so well, we had to cut short some of the plans on giving longer looks to guys like Cordero, Dalbec and maybe Duran, but we did find out about Whitlock, Pivetta, Renfroe, Arroyo and a little more about Houck.

[Nick]

I see that E Rod is getting hammered by hapless Rangers tonight. No fire, no passion, 'oh well' he says.

 

Get some real pitchers. Please!

[moonslav59]

I see that E Rod is getting hammered by hapless Rangers tonight. No fire, no passion, 'oh well' he says.

 

Get some real pitchers. Please!

 

If could play just decent D, it might be 2-1.

[Nick]

If could play just decent D, it might be 2-1.

 

But we've decided as a team, defense is secondary. That's our team. We can't complain about it.

 

We know what the Rays are. We are not them. They can manufacture runs. They play good defense.

 

When we can't outhit the other team, then we're in trouble.

 

We need to fix our pitching staff this winter. Don't give me bunch of mediocre pitchers.

 

We are not built to play Defense. Just look at our SS. He's an offensive player. I don't care that he doesn't make any errors. He has no range. That goes for the entire team. Just look at our infield.

 

I have no idea what Bloom's teams will look like.

 

Can someone tell me?

 

PS many moons ago, Indiana Pacers publicly stated they wanted a running team. But they kept drafting guys like Clark Kellog and Herb Williams, epitome of non runners for NBA.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

But we've decided as a team, defense is secondary. That's our team. We can't complain about it.

 

We know what the Rays are. We are not them. They can manufacture runs. They play good defense.

 

When we can't outhit the other team, then we're in trouble.

 

We need to fix our pitching staff this winter. Don't give me bunch of mediocre pitchers.

 

We are not built to play Defense. Just look at at SS. He's an offensive player. I don't care that he doesn't make any errors. He has no range. That goes for the entire team.

 

I have no idea what Bloom's teams will look like.

 

Can someone tell me?

 

I do agree we need to acquire a starter better than ERod.

 

I also hope we can improve the D, this winter. Playing Kike in CF would be a nice start.

 

We should have a big winter spending budget, so here’s where we find out if Bloom can do well what he was never allowed to do with Tampa- spend big on multiple players.

 

I have to think next year’s team is going to look a lot better than this one, on paper.

[moonslav59]

Maybe just spend almost all the winter budget on pitching and a little on a cheap 1Bman while swapping out JD for Schwarber at DH.

 

Sale

Greinke

Kershaw

Eovaldi

Pivetta

 

RIglesias

Whitlock

Houck

Barnes

Taylor

DHern

Brasier

Valdez

 

1. Kike CF

2. Devers 3B

3. Bogey SS

4. Schwarber DH

5. Renfroe RF

6. Verdugo LF

7. Belt-Dalbec 1B

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vaz- Plawecki C

 

Duran on the bench (kike to 2B)

 

 

[notin]

If could play just decent D, it might be 2-1.

 

 

It’s not the defense!!! I read it on here..

[moonslav59]

It’s sad to see a team like the Rangers make us their bitch.

[harmony]

I do agree we need to acquire a starter better than ERod.

 

I also hope we can improve the D, this winter. Playing Kike in CF would be a nice start.

 

We should have a big winter spending budget, so here’s where we find out if Bloom can do well what he was never allowed to do with Tampa- spend big on multiple players.

 

I have to think next year’s team is going to look a lot better than this one, on paper.

What players should the Red Sox pursue and what contract should the Sox offer in terms of money and years?

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/2021-22-mlb-free-agents.html

[Noles_1335]

Moon…. You’re crazy if you think we should make a run at Grienke and Kershaw! Let’s just make our team a little bit older… we need arms that are not about to fall off

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s also not Bloom’s MO to spend big on aging players.

[jacksonianmarch]

Syndergaard, Stroman, and Gausman are the three who should be around for awhile, even though Noah is struggling to get back on the mound post TJS

[Hugh2]

I still think Whitlock could start next year. They really like his arsenal and view him as a potential starter.

[Hugh2]

Red Sox payroll rank

 

2021 6th

2020 4th

2019 1st

2018 1st

2017 6th

2016 3rd

2015 5th

2014 4th

2013 4th

2012 3rd

2011 3rd

 

 

Calling the Sox penny pinchers is just delusional

[jad]

Red Sox payroll rank

 

2021 6th

2020 4th

2019 1st

2018 1st

2017 6th

2016 3rd

2015 5th

2014 4th

2013 4th

2012 3rd

2011 3rd

 

 

Calling the Sox penny pinchers is just delusional

 

Why? The very evidence you cite shows them going from 1st to 6th in two years. They didn't get that way through liberal spending.

[moonslav59]

Moon…. You’re crazy if you think we should make a run at Grienke and Kershaw! Let’s just make our team a little bit older… we need arms that are not about to fall off

 

I don’t see any younger pitcher that looks worthy of signing long term, so I think we should seek stop gap, shorter term deals to carry us to the next big ace that comes along.

 

It’s not out any love for the 2 I named, there are others that fit the same profile-

scherzer, Verlander..

 

Our team is far from old, now, and most of our current older players will be gone, this winter..

[moonslav59]

It’s also not Bloom’s MO to spend big on aging players.

 

He’s never had an opportunity to spend big on young, middle aged or old.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox payroll rank

 

2021 6th

2020 4th

2019 1st

2018 1st

2017 6th

2016 3rd

2015 5th

2014 4th

2013 4th

2012 3rd

2011 3rd

 

 

Calling the Sox penny pinchers is just delusional

 

I agree, but I think the only fair way to do it is to also include revenue ranks.

[Bellhorn04]

He’s never had an opportunity to spend big on young, middle aged or old.

 

Jax making nonsensical statements.

[moonslav59]

Syndergaard, Stroman, and Gausman are the three who should be around for awhile, even though Noah is struggling to get back on the mound post TJS

 

These three will all be grossly overpaid and get 2-3 more years than they deserve.

 

You don’t just go out and sign anyone to a long term deal just because you have a very high need at that position. I said the same about Bauer, last winter.

 

I’m thinking we need to wait for that right guy or maybe trade for one like we did for Beckett and Sale. Even when guys like Price come along, they often don’t do as well as hoped, but I dont see anyone even close to what Price was when we signed him.

 

If we can sign a couple of older pitchers to one or two year deals and punt the big choice down the road, I think we’ll be better off than going overboard on one of these three.

 

The two we sign should do much better than Richards and Perez.

[moonslav59]

Why? The very evidence you cite shows them going from 1st to 6th in two years. They didn't get that way through liberal spending.

 

They spent way more, and I mean new contracts, in 2021 than many many teams.

 

This is their patter, like it or not. We were 6th before we went to #1, too. How did we go from 6 to 1.

 

My guess is we go from 6 to 2 or 3 this winter. Nobody is catching the Dodgers.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Carlos Rodon, 28, would be a good target. Will Bloom outbid Cashman?

[moonslav59]

Jax making nonsensical statements.

 

Bloom’s MO is finding diamonds in the ruff and getting nice returns on vets he had to trade away to make budget.

 

How that MO fits into a team with a vastly different spending strategy is largely unknown.

 

Any team can and will benefit from a GM who finds diamonds, and Bloom has already found a few, but he has yet to have been given a fat wallet.

 

Sure, you can look at Richards, Perez, the Ottavino trade, Marwin and other signings as failures, but he yet to go large and long. Actually he has yet to go large or long on anyone.

 

Plus, the Kike signing looks good. Renfroe, too. One could call him a gem, along with Whitlock, Arroyo, Plawecki and others.

 

This winter could end up being Bloom’s defining moment with this team, assuming he gets the budget I think Henry gives him.

[Kimmi]

Exactly, and part of that was showing restraint, this deadline and not doing anything rash last winter until we learned more about what slots we could fill from within the system.

 

By starting off so well, we had to cut short some of the plans on giving longer looks to guys like Cordero, Dalbec and maybe Duran, but we did find out about Whitlock, Pivetta, Renfroe, Arroyo and a little more about Houck.

 

You and I are on the same page with this.

 

I am thankful that Bloom did not act rashly at the deadline.

[Kimmi]

It’s also not Bloom’s MO to spend big on aging players.

 

Amen for that.