A Realistic View at 2021: Part III

[notin]

Mata was also the most likely starter to get called up midseason and contribute, like Gil in NY.

 

I still can't believe the White Sox thought it was a good idea to trade Madrigal, a 24-year-old .300 hitter in the bigs for the privilege to pay Kimbrel $16 million in '22 when he's 34 (maybe there's a buyout... but still, talk about going for it now). Gotta wonder how much more Bloom could've gotten from Chicago for the younger Barnes at almost half the salary...

 

The Kimbrel deal was actually very odd.

 

While Kimbrel is certainly having a stellar season, that he was worth more in a trade to the Cubs than the younger, cheaper and more controllable (and possibly better at this point?) Diego Castillo was worth to the Rays just seems odd to me.

 

Then again it seemed odd to me that one season wonder Kendall Graveman aka The Human Elbow Problem also seemed to be worth more in a trade than Castillo also seemed odd to me…

[mvp 78]

Ultimately, I think Bloom was unhappy the Sox were good this year. They were over their skis all year. Had they flopped earlier, they’d have been able to tear down the team which is what Bloom would have wanted. JD would have had some value. ERod maybe some value. Eovaldi definitely. Heck, they could’ve even entertained a blockbuster and moved on from Bogey. Thing is, with the Sox being good, it didn’t allow the tear down Bloom wanted and will actually have to escalate the rebuild because fan expectation for 22 is that they compete

 

I think if he wanted to tear it down, he would have. I think he wants to compete and add from the farm. He wants to minimize the roller coaster we've seen since 99.

[mvp 78]

The only question is whether the lux tax had much to do with the deadline inactivity. Who could we have acquired by spending at the deadline? I don't know.

 

He stated that he wasn't going to go over so...

[mvp 78]

Although that line would be good for a few laughs, if Bloom was grinning and Henry was sitting there ashen-faced beside him.

 

He's only ashen face because Bloom ate a lot of garlic for lunch.

[mvp 78]

What if Travis simply can't hit any more though?

 

His current 2021 BA is .188.

 

It might not be long before fans want to see him about as much as they want to see Cordero...

 

He can't hit, but he's marginally better than Santana and Cordero.

[moonslav59]

Ultimately, I think Bloom was unhappy the Sox were good this year. They were over their skis all year. Had they flopped earlier, they’d have been able to tear down the team which is what Bloom would have wanted. JD would have had some value. ERod maybe some value. Eovaldi definitely. Heck, they could’ve even entertained a blockbuster and moved on from Bogey. Thing is, with the Sox being good, it didn’t allow the tear down Bloom wanted and will actually have to escalate the rebuild because fan expectation for 22 is that they compete

 

Partially, yes.

 

It's hard to think he's totally upset he built a team that won more than expected.

 

Certainly, we'd be looking a lot better for 2022 and beyond had we not done as well and were sellers at the deadline- like we were in 2020.

[Bellhorn04]

Ultimately, I think Bloom was unhappy the Sox were good this year. They were over their skis all year. Had they flopped earlier, they’d have been able to tear down the team which is what Bloom would have wanted. JD would have had some value. ERod maybe some value. Eovaldi definitely. Heck, they could’ve even entertained a blockbuster and moved on from Bogey. Thing is, with the Sox being good, it didn’t allow the tear down Bloom wanted and will actually have to escalate the rebuild because fan expectation for 22 is that they compete

 

I kind of doubt he was actually unhappy the team was good. If the goal was to be non-competitive, they could have spent even less than they did.

 

This is just entertaining speculation.

[moonslav59]

I kind of doubt he was actually unhappy the team was good. If the goal was to be non-competitive, they could have spent even less than they did.

 

This is just entertaining speculation.

 

I don't think the "goal" was to me uncompetitive, but they probably thought we would not be this good (and maybe they were right.)

 

Had we sucked earlier, it would have made preparing for 2022 and beyond easier and more palatable to fans and the media.

 

We could have gotten better prospects for ERod, Eovaldi, Ottavino and maybe even Vaz or Bogey (1 more year left) than we did in 2020 for Workman, Hembree, Moreland, Pillar and Osich.

 

As it was, more people bitched about us not being buyers at the deadline than understood the longer term priority has been ahead of 2021's.

[mvp 78]

I kind of doubt he was actually unhappy the team was good. If the goal was to be non-competitive, they could have spent even less than they did.

 

This is just entertaining speculation.

 

If they didn't want to be competitive, why would they ever trade for Ottavino? While I don't think the other deals move the meter too much, giving salary relief to the Yanks to bolster the pen would make no sense if they didn't want to win.

[notin]

Ultimately, I think Bloom was unhappy the Sox were good this year. They were over their skis all year. Had they flopped earlier, they’d have been able to tear down the team which is what Bloom would have wanted. JD would have had some value. ERod maybe some value. Eovaldi definitely. Heck, they could’ve even entertained a blockbuster and moved on from Bogey. Thing is, with the Sox being good, it didn’t allow the tear down Bloom wanted and will actually have to escalate the rebuild because fan expectation for 22 is that they compete

 

This doesn’t make sense for multiple reasons.

 

Let’s start with the obvious. If the Sox were doing badly this season, it would very likely be because most (if not all) of the players named - Martinez, Eovaldi, Rodriguez, Bogaerts - were also doing badly, which then in turn makes them difficult to trade for anything good in order to do a some sort of rebuild. Typically when teams do poorly, it’s because the players are performing poorly.

 

That the team would be underperforming while also loaded with available and expensive players all having good seasons just relies on too many stars aligning to ever happen…

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think the "goal" was to me uncompetitive, but they probably thought we would not be this good (and maybe they were right.)

 

Had we sucked earlier, it would have made preparing for 2022 and beyond easier and more palatable to fans and the media.

 

True, but another start to finish s***** season like 2020 would not have been very palatable at all.

[moonslav59]

True, but another start to finish s***** season like 2020 would not have been very palatable at all.

 

True, but would fans really have wanted us to trade prospects to get us to .500 by September?

 

I think they'd understand why they traded vets for prospects, even if it meant ending up even worse by year's end.

 

Most, anyway.

 

[moonslav59]

This doesn’t make sense for multiple reasons.

 

Let’s start with the obvious. If the Sox were doing badly this season, it would very likely be because most (if not all) of the players named - Martinez, Eovaldi, Rodriguez, Bogaerts - were also doing badly, which then in turn makes them difficult to trade for anything good in order to do a some sort of rebuild. Typically when teams do poorly, it’s because the players are performing poorly.

 

That the team would be underperforming while also loaded with available and expensive players all having good seasons just relies on too many stars aligning to ever happen…

 

We did okay trading Workman and Hembree.

 

Even if all our FAs to be were doing worse- not likely- we probably could have gotten something useful for 2-3 of them.

 

We might have also looked at JD, Bogey, Vaz and Kike- players with just 1 more year of control.

 

Somebody was bound to be doing well.

[moonslav59]

If they didn't want to be competitive, why would they ever trade for Ottavino? While I don't think the other deals move the meter too much, giving salary relief to the Yanks to bolster the pen would make no sense if they didn't want to win.

 

I think they wanted to be respectable and appear to be trying to contend, but you are right. If Ottavino helps us be competitive at the deadline, it goes counter to the idea that Bloom was planning or or hoping we could be legitimate sellers at the deadline.

[notin]

True, but would fans really have wanted us to trade prospects to get us to .500 by September?

 

I think they'd understand why they traded vets for prospects, even if it meant ending up even worse by year's end.

 

Most, anyway.

 

 

Really?

 

I would guess this board is your primary interaction with Sox fans. And this board is loaded with various levels and a variety of opinions whose only common thread is we’re all Die Hard Sox Addicts, many of whom post here all 12 months.

 

Casual fans are not of that mindset. I work with a bunch of Cubs’ fans who still to this day don’t understand why the team traded away Rizzo, Bryant and Baez. Bear in mind this team had already had one 11 game losing streak that dropped them out of contention. And that all 3 are free agents in less than 2 months. And that Kris Bryant in particular (through his choice of agent) had been advocating for free agency since even before his MLB debut!! And even with all that, many of them still don’t get why the team traded away their best players!

 

So no. Casual ticket-buying Sox fans wouldn’t understand…

Edited August 18, 2021 by notin

[moonslav59]

Really?

 

I would guess this board is your primary interaction with Sox fans. And this board is loaded with various levels and a variety of opinions whose only common thread is we’re all Die Hard Sox Addicts, many of whom post here all 12 months.

 

Casual fans are not of that mindset. I work with a bunch of Cubs’ fans who still to this day don’t understand why the team traded away Rizzo, Bryant and Baez. Bear in mind this team had already had one 11 game losing streak that dropped them out of contention. And that all 3 are free agents in less than 2 months. And that Kris Bryant in particular (through his choice of agent) had been advocating for free agency since even before his MLB debut!! And even with all that, many of them still don’t get why the team traded away their best players!

 

So no. Casual ticket-buying Sox fans wouldn’t understand…

 

Most "casual fans" don't get all worked up over trades, anyway, unless we are in a pennant race and trade our ace away..

 

Were people upset we traded Workman and Hembree for Pivetta and Potts? Maybe a few, but I doubt a majority.

 

I do recall some not liking the Moreland trade, but most knowledgeable fans at least understood why it was done.

[Bellhorn04]

Were people upset we traded Workman and Hembree for Pivetta and Potts? Maybe a few, but I doubt a majority.

 

I do recall some not liking the Moreland trade, but most knowledgable fans at least understood why it was done.

 

2020 was such a fustercluck that no one was paying much attention to anything.

[mvp 78]

Most "casual fans" don't get all worked up over trades, anyway, unless we are in a pennant race and trade our ace away..

 

Were people upset we traded Workman and Hembree for Pivetta and Potts? Maybe a few, but I doubt a majority.

 

I do recall some not liking the Moreland trade, but most knowledgeable fans at least understood why it was done.

 

When you have a s***** team, you can trade everything not nailed down and nobody cares. Moreland's contract ended that season. People have seen Lester/Mookie/Nomar get traded. Moreland doesn't move the needle at all.

[moonslav59]

2020 was such a fustercluck that no one was paying much attention to anything.

 

We've sold during other losing seasons, too.

 

There's always some rumblings, but I'm talking about major issues from fans and the media.

 

The massive fire sale of 2014 was a different story. We had just won a ring the previous year.

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

40 or 42 games remaining for the 3 teams tied for the 2 wild card slots: NYY, OAK & BOS.

 

SEA & TOR are 4 back and still in it, for now.

 

Remaining Games:

 

BOS

7 vs TBR

6 v CLE

4 v NYY

3 v TEX

3 v MIN

3 @CWS

3 @ SEA

3 @ BAL

3 @ WSH

2 v NYM

 

NYY

7 v TOR

6 v BAL

4 v BOS

4 v MIN

4 @ OAK

3 @ LAA

3 @ NYM

3 v CLE

3 v TEX

 

OAK

9 v SEA

6 v HOU

5 v CWS

4 NYY

3 v SFG

3 @ DET

3 @ TOR

3 v TEX

3 @ KCR

3 @ LAA

2 @ ATL

 

Just checked the SOX schedule. They have 6 games remaining against the O's in September. Of all the teams the SOX want more games with, it's the O's.

[moonslav59]

Just checked the SOX schedule. They have 6 games remaining against the O's in September. Of all the teams the SOX want more games with, it's the O's.

 

Thanks. I made a boo-boo.

 

I corrected it.

[moonslav59]

If you filter out all the same games vs same opponents, here are the differences in remaining schedules:

 

BOS Vs NYY

 

BOS/NYY

4 TBR/4 OAK

3 CLE/4 TOR

3 CWS/3 TOR

3 SEA/3 LAA

3 WSH/ 2 ATL + 1 NYM+1 MIN

 

BOS/OAK

7 TBR/ 6 HOU

6 BAL/ 3 LAA + 3 DET

6 CLE/ 6 SEA

3 MIN/ 3 SFG

3 WSH/3 KCR + 2 CWS

 

 

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

If you filter out all the same games vs same opponents, here are the differences in remaining schedules:

 

BOS Vs NYY

 

BOS/NYY

4 TBR/4 OAK

3 CLE/4 TOR

3 CWS/3 TOR

3 SEA/3 LAA

3 WSH/ 2 ATL + 1 NYM+1 MIN

 

BOS/OAK

7 TBR/ 6 HOU

6 BAL/ 3 LAA + 3 DET

6 CLE/ 6 SEA

3 MIN/ 3 SFG

3 WSH/3 KCR + 2 CWS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boston has an easy remaining schedule, but they aren't helping themselves right now.

[moonslav59]

Boston has an easy remaining schedule, but they aren't helping themselves right now.

 

This is certainly not fun to watch. It looks like a full meltdown.

 

When is the last time we had a come from behind win?

 

(It was our strength not long ago, but of course, it's not a "repeatable skill," so there's that.)

 

I still think this team is much better than we have sown in the last 2-3 weeks. (9-15 over the last 24 games/ 15-21 in the last 36)

 

We are just 33-30 since our Yankee sweep back in early June.

 

Just getting back to that winning % may be too much to ask, at this point, easy schedule and all.

 

I still have high hopes, though.

 

Maybe one come from behind win is the spark we need.

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe

#RedSox bullpen had a 3.48 ERA with opponents hitting .236 through July 28.

 

Since: 6.93 ERA with opponents hitting .300.

 

Only the Pirates (6.95), Cubs (7.86) and Orioles (8.96) are higher.

 

Not coming from behind AND losing the leads they do have. Bad combo.

[moonslav59]

@PeteAbe

#RedSox bullpen had a 3.48 ERA with opponents hitting .236 through July 28.

 

Since: 6.93 ERA with opponents hitting .300.

 

Only the Pirates (6.95), Cubs (7.86) and Orioles (8.96) are higher.

 

Not coming from behind AND losing the leads they do have. Bad combo.

 

That does cut into come from behind wins, for sure.

[User Name]

@PeteAbe

#RedSox bullpen had a 3.48 ERA with opponents hitting .236 through July 28.

 

Since: 6.93 ERA with opponents hitting .300.

 

Only the Pirates (6.95), Cubs (7.86) and Orioles (8.96) are higher.

 

Not coming from behind AND losing the leads they do have. Bad combo.

 

It's the defense!

[moonslav59]

It's the defense!

 

I resemble that remark!

[User Name]

I resemble that remark!

 

You look like it?

[dgalehouse]

It seems we have to rely on beating up the bottom feeders and tankers to save the day. Have to thank that imbecile Manfred for the soft schedule to both begin and end the season.