What does Frenchy have on the Red Sox

[mvp 78]

Better thaan Cordero, yes, as many others would have been, too. Renfroe has been as solid as Pillar.

 

BTW, here are the OPS of some OF names mentioned, this past winter:

 

.317 Billy Hamilton

.407 Victor Reyes

(.412 Cordero)

.429 Adam Hasely

.434 Dustin Fowler

.522 Brett Gardner

.536 Dexter Fowler

.545 Jon Jay

.558 JBJ

.585 Amed Rosario & Hunter Dozier

.589 K Kiermaier

.590 Juan Lagares

.610 Joc Pederson

.610 Marcell Ozuna

.631 Gregory Polanco

(.633 Renfroe)

.642 J Profar

.645 E Rosario

.669 Pillar

 

Granted, Ozuna's line would be better if he could hit against the 2020 Sox again.

[notin]

I honestly think they didn't expect to compete. They expected to be a .500 team and to just be "good enough." This was the bridge year. Sign some AAAA guys and have them round out the roster until Downs/Casas/Duran are ready to come up at the end of 2021. 2022 was the year they were planning for.

 

I've always felt that way, since we knew we would be without Sale forth bulk of 2021, if not all of it...

[notin]

Granted, Ozuna's line would be better if he could hit against the 2020 Sox again.

 

Who's wouldn't?

[Bellhorn04]

Again, someone has already pointed out to me that the Renfore is a career .230 hitter.

 

Career .479 SLG and .767 OPS, though.

[notin]

MLB careers BA/OBP/SLG: Franchy in 399 Plate Appearances... .219/.285/.382; Munoz in 555 Plate Appearances... .278/.332/.402

 

At what point are you gving up on Cordero after a little over a month?

 

Cordero entered the season with a .737 OPS, good fr a 99 OPS+. Munoz entered the season with a career 96 OPS+.

 

Codero has certainly been a flop to date, but history certainly does not tell you Munoz is less of a risk...

[moonslav59]

I think they had already made Kiké the fulltime CF for all intents and purposes. He just got injured.

 

Arroyo/Chavis at 2B is fine with me. You can also use Chavis to rest Dalbec at 1B.

 

If they are going to platoon Dalbec, they have an in house option in Ockimey.

 

Ockimey is wrong-handed to platoon with Dalbec.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

At what point are you gving up on Cordero after a little over a month?

 

Cordero entered the season with a .737 OPS, good fr a 99 OPS+. Munoz entered the season with a career 96 OPS+.

 

Codero has certainly been a flop to date, but history certainly does not tell you Munoz is less of a risk...

 

You're the second poster on this Franchy thread trying to argue not to include this season...

 

...to me -- and I'll bet for the majority of Red Sox fans -- the entire Cordero experience and discussion is based on what he's done or not done in a Red Sox uniform.

 

If Franchy had ever done anything positive in the big leagues, we could say he's maybe off to a slow start. But since we don't have any such history, this is probably just who he is.

[moonslav59]

You're the second poster on this Franchy thread trying to argue not to include this season...

 

...to me -- and I'll bet for the majority of Red Sox fans -- the entire Cordero experience and discussion is based on what he's done or not done in a Red Sox uniform.

 

If Franchy had ever done anything positive in the big leagues, we could say he's maybe off to a slow start. But since we don't have any such history, this is probably just who he is.

 

His previous history was a larger sample size than this year, so one could argue we still don't really know who Franchy is or can be.

 

He and we need to figure it out in AAA not Boston.

 

If Santana was ready, Cordero would be demoted.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He and we need to figure it out in AAA not Boston.

 

 

Of course. Cordero is not ready for the MLB. He may never be. I just don't see how anyone here suggesting trying someone else is being "risky"; what's the worst that could happen: a new guy might whiff in half his at bats and play below-average defense?

 

BTW: I'm not for promoting Duran until the Red Sox deem him ready to play regularly. Everyday reps at AAA are more important right now than sitting on the bench in Fenway half the week as a platoon guy or pinch-runner.

[notin]

You're the second poster on this Franchy thread trying to argue not to include this season...

 

...to me -- and I'll bet for the majority of Red Sox fans -- the entire Cordero experience and discussion is based on what he's done or not done in a Red Sox uniform.

 

If Franchy had ever done anything positive in the big leagues, we could say he's maybe off to a slow start. But since we don't have any such history, this is probably just who he is.

 

If I’m second, maybe there is merit.

 

And as many have pointed out, he was a league average hitter (OPS+ 99) for the first 315 PA of his career.

 

But you appear to be arguing that he is who he is based on the last 84 PA...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If I’m second, maybe there is merit.

 

And as many have pointed out, he was a league average hitter (OPS+ 99) for the first 315 PA of his career.

 

But you appear to be arguing that he is who he is based on the last 84 PA...

 

There's no argument who he's been as a Red Sox player. His 41% K-rate is higher than his 39% career K-rate entering the season... but there's no way that's even close to a league average whiffer.

[notin]

Of course. Cordero is not ready for the MLB. He may never be. I just don't see how anyone here suggesting trying someone else is being "risky"; what's the worst that could happen: a new guy might whiff in half his at bats and play below-average defense?

 

BTW: I'm not for promoting Duran until the Red Sox deem him ready to play regularly. Everyday reps at AAA are more important right now than sitting on the bench in Fenway half the week as a platoon guy or pinch-runner.

 

Sure the Sox could run out a plethora of stopgaps. But if they’re going to fix it, why not do it right?

 

I think we’ll see Santana out there shortly, and as he is equally risky as Cordero, it probably won’t be too long before we see Jarren Duran.

 

But for right now, the likelihood of external options is low. Who’s already selling? And the internal options are largely just a bunch of Cordero-types with different names. So sure, they could try Gettys, Wilson, Puello, and Munoz for a few PA each. But will there be a big difference? With the possible exception of Munoz, none of those others has anything in their career that necessarily indicates improvement and none are more likely to go off than Cordero is...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sure the Sox could run out a plethora of stopgaps. But if they’re going to fix it, why not do it right?

 

I think we’ll see Santana out there shortly, and as he is equally risky as Cordero, it probably won’t be too long before we see Jarren Duran.

 

But for right now, the likelihood of external options is low. Who’s already selling? And the internal options are largely just a bunch of Cordero-types with different names. So sure, they could try Gettys, Wilson, Puello, and Munoz for a few PA each. But will there be a big difference? With the possible exception of Munoz, none of those others has anything in their career that necessarily indicates improvement and none are more likely to go off than Cordero is...

 

I can't remember much about Santana, but he has a positive WAR after seven years in the MLB playing a lot of positions. K-rate is 28%, still below average.

[mvp 78]

Ockimey is wrong-handed to platoon with Dalbec.

 

???

Bobby is RHB (killing lefties this year)

Ockimey is LHB

[mvp 78]

???

Bobby is RHB (killing lefties this year)

Ockimey is LHB

 

Ockimey had 898 OPS against RHP in 2019.

 

Dalbec has a 872 OPS against LHP in 2021.

[notin]

???

Bobby is RHB (killing lefties this year)

Ockimey is LHB

 

Ockimey is not a guy you want starting 70-75% of the time...

[notin]

I can't remember much about Santana, but he has a positive WAR after seven years in the MLB playing a lot of positions. K-rate is 28%, still below average.

 

He had an insane juiced ball season in 2019 that probably piqued more interest in him than he should normally get...

[moonslav59]

???

Bobby is RHB (killing lefties this year)

Ockimey is LHB

 

My bad. For some reason, I was thinking Ockimey hit the short end of a platoon.

[moonslav59]

Ockimey is not a guy you want starting 70-75% of the time...

 

No, but I'm not sure I want Dalbec facing RHPs, right now.

 

I'm far from giving up on Bobby Dee, but we need to shake things up, soon.

[Nick]

You're the second poster on this Franchy thread trying to argue not to include this season...

 

...to me -- and I'll bet for the majority of Red Sox fans -- the entire Cordero experience and discussion is based on what he's done or not done in a Red Sox uniform.

 

If Franchy had ever done anything positive in the big leagues, we could say he's maybe off to a slow start. But since we don't have any such history, this is probably just who he is.

 

Basically, Cordero, Franchy, Dalbec and to some extent Kike has underperformed.

 

Someone must be the first to go. To me Dalbec gets some leniency because he was projected to be our #9 hitter.

 

You can wait on one player but not 3/4 players.

 

Bottom line is other than Dalbec, other three do not have any history with Sox organization.

 

May 12th is early to give up on anyone for sure, but not when at least 3 are faltering at the same time. Maybe Renfore is coming out it. Again, Cordero is first out to me.

 

And Franchy as options.

[notin]

There's no argument who he's been as a Red Sox player. His 41% K-rate is higher than his 39% career K-rate entering the season... but there's no way that's even close to a league average whiffer.

 

There was also an argument about Christian Vazquez after his first two years and 385 PA as a Red Sox player, with several favoring Blake Swihart as the starter. Vazquez numbers after two years and 385 PA were worse than Cordero’s career numbers to date. Did you have an opinion on who should be the starting catcher going forward?

 

I did. I was all about Swihart. Oops. Lesson learned...

[moonslav59]

Basically, Cordero, Franchy, Dalbec and to some extent Kike has underperformed.

 

Someone must be the first to go. To me Dalbec gets some leniency because he was projected to be our #9 hitter.

 

You can wait on one player but not 3/4 players.

 

Bottom line is other than Dalbec, other three do not have any history with Sox organization.

 

May 12th is early to give up on anyone for sure, but not when at least 3 are faltering at the same time. Maybe Renfore is coming out it. Again, Cordero is first out to me.

 

And Franchy as options.

 

Kike was doing about as expected.

 

Dalbec is being given more leniency because he is doing better than Cordero this year, he did better least year, and Chavis might be needed more at 2B than 1B (Marwin to LF.)

 

I'm convinced Cordero would be in AAA, right now, if Santana was ready.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Cora on Santana in Worcester: ‘Because he’s there, it doesn’t mean that he’s that close to being here.’ Emphasizes that he needs reps to be ready.

[moonslav59]

Another point:

 

Cordero is not in the team's top 9 in PAs. Had Arroyo not gotten hurt, he'd likely not be in the top 10.

 

Team's worst hitters with 70+ PAs:

 

BOS (5 under .700, 2 under .600, 1 under .500)

.412 Cordero 84

.558 Dalbec 108

.612 Marwin 126 (5th in PAS!)

.633 Renfroe 109

.677 Vaz

.710 Arroyo

 

NYY (6-2-0)

.522 Gardner 75

.587 Frazier 104

.625 Torres 141 (2nd in PAs!)

.632 Odor 70

.640 Hicks 123 (5th in PAs)

.689 Sanchez 90

 

TOR (4-3-1)

.408 Jansen 77

.510 Gurriel 121 (5th)

.532 Tellez 75

.634 Biggio 120 (6th)

 

TBR (7-4-1)

.462 Tsutsugo 87

.561 Adames 119 (6th)

.581 Brosseau 81

.589 Kiermaier 77

.644 Margot 121 (5th)

.662 Diaz 141 (3rd)

.672 B Lowe 136 (4th)

.723 Arozarena 146 (2nd)

.726 Meadows 146 (1st)

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

@alexspeier

Cora on Santana in Worcester: ‘Because he’s there, it doesn’t mean that he’s that close to being here.’ Emphasizes that he needs reps to be ready.

 

Not surprising.

 

We should maybe call up Wilson and demote Cordero or DFA Brice.

 

Maybe when Arroyo or Kike return- the other from Brice or Cordero goes.

[Donnie Sadler was short]

Yeah he's been sucking @ .156...but JBJ is hitting .175 with a 2yr/$24 mill contract...I guess I over valued him as a $5 mill/year type...man Im glad we passed on him as a FA despite really liking him over the years.

[mvp 78]

There was also an argument about Christian Vazquez after his first two years and 385 PA as a Red Sox player, with several favoring Blake Swihart as the starter. Vazquez numbers after two years and 385 PA were worse than Cordero’s career numbers to date. Did you have an opinion on who should be the starting catcher going forward?

 

I did. I was all about Swihart. Oops. Lesson learned...

 

Also, they both lost considerable time early in their career due to injuries. Swihart may have had a higher ceiling. He just never got there. I don't think any scouts projected Vaz to hit the way he has the past few years. Vaz still wasn't hitting as recently as 2018...

[mvp 78]

Not surprising.

 

We should maybe call up Wilson and demote Cordero or DFA Brice.

 

Maybe when Arroyo or Kike return- the other from Brice or Cordero goes.

 

Very SSS on Wilson. His current pace of 64 HRs is untenable.

[notin]

Also, they both lost considerable time early in their career due to injuries. Swihart may have had a higher ceiling. He just never got there. I don't think any scouts projected Vaz to hit the way he has the past few years. Vaz still wasn't hitting as recently as 2018...

 

Much like Cordero...

[notin]

Very SSS on Wilson. His current pace of 64 HRs is untenable.

 

I would be surprised if the Sox called up Wilson and demoted Cordero.

 

It might give immediate benefits, but over any length of time, I suspect Cordero will outperform Wilson...