What does Frenchy have on the Red Sox

[Bellhorn04]

As of today:

 

Cordero bWAR -0.3

Beni bWAR +0.5

 

So it has maybe cost us a win.

[Bellhorn04]

In his last 15 starts, Franchy has gone hitless in 13 of them.

[moonslav59]

As of today:

 

Cordero bWAR -0.3

Beni bWAR +0.5

 

So it has maybe cost us a win.

 

The money saved in the trade went towards signing Marwin +0.4 bWAR.

 

and/or

 

Sawamura +0.3 bWAR.

 

How much value are Winckowski and 3 PTBNLs?

[mvp 78]

As of today:

 

Cordero bWAR -0.3

Beni bWAR +0.5

 

So it has maybe cost us a win.

 

Last night's win!

[mvp 78]

Again, I'm not defending Blooms offseason OF neglect.

 

I did like Kike as a CF'er, and many argued against that idea. He may not be great, but if he was healthy, Cordero is on the bench, right now. Same with Marwin. Same with Santana.

 

It's hard for me to get to worked up over Bloom neglecting to fill a fourth string slot, but I do agree it was a mistake.

 

4th string slot? He only had 1 fulltime OF in the clubhouse. Both corner OF spots are anemic.

[moonslav59]

4th string slot? He only had 1 fulltime OF in the clubhouse. Both corner OF spots are anemic.

 

Starters:

Verdugo, Renfroe, Cordero

 

Bench:

Kike, Marwin

 

AAA depth:

Santana

 

Again, I'm not saying this was fine or even good enough, but our 2 ML OF depth bench guys got hurt, and Marwin is needed at 2B.

 

We should have signed Marisnick or some other near min wage OF'er- no doubt. We could have also given Chavis some reps in LF, this spring. We knew Duran was not ready, and Santana had a foot infection. It was a mistake.

[notin]

Santana was injured when they signed him. They painted themselves into a corner.

 

He was healthy enough for auditions, and might have been ready but then developed some sort of foot infection...

[mvp 78]

Starters:

Verdugo, Renfroe, Cordero

 

Bench:

Kike, Marwin

 

AAA depth:

Santana

 

Again, I'm not saying this was fine or even good enough, but our 2 ML OF depth bench guys got hurt, and Marwin is needed at 2B.

 

We should have signed Marisnick or some other near min wage OF'er- no doubt. We could have also given Chavis some reps in LF, this spring. We knew Duran was not ready, and Santana had a foot infection. It was a mistake.

 

Who thought Renfroe and Cordero could both be fulltime starters? I don't remember people claiming that at the time.

 

Santana was injured when they signed him and doesn't have a long track record of success.

 

Kike and Marwin are both utility guys who's main function as plug and play on an as needed basis. They are not full time guys.

 

If you fill your lineup with fall back options like the guys mentioned above, you can't expect long term production.

[mvp 78]

He was healthy enough for auditions, and might have been ready but then developed some sort of foot infection...

 

Bloom's OF plan sucked. There's no denying this!

[notin]

4th string slot? He only had 1 fulltime OF in the clubhouse. Both corner OF spots are anemic.

 

Yasiel Puig and Josh Reddick are both still available!

 

At times, I wanted both of them. Not surprised they avoided Puig. Less so with Reddick, who looked like a good platoon candidate for Renfroe...

[notin]

Bloom's OF plan sucked. There's no denying this!

 

I think they expected more from Cordero. He’s never been a star before, but he’s always at least been adequate...

[moonslav59]

Who thought Renfroe and Cordero could both be fulltime starters? I don't remember people claiming that at the time.

 

Santana was injured when they signed him and doesn't have a long track record of success.

 

Kike and Marwin are both utility guys who's main function as plug and play on an as needed basis. They are not full time guys.

 

If you fill your lineup with fall back options like the guys mentioned above, you can't expect long term production.

 

Well, Pillar, Marisnick and others didn't have long term production success, either.

 

Santana was supposed to be ready. He got a new injury. You keep ignoring this.

 

Look, I'm on your side on this. Bloom should have signed an OF'er capable of playing FT OF, but none of the cheapest options had better track records than Renfroe- Cordero- yes.

 

By stating Blooms reasoning, I'm not saying I agree with it, but he obviously thought Kike, Marwin & Santana were enough depth to carry us to Duran.

 

3 injuries put the kabosh on that. If just one injury did not take place, Cordero would be on the bench of at AAA, right now. That is kind of hard to predict.

[notin]

Who thought Renfroe and Cordero could both be fulltime starters? I don't remember people claiming that at the time.

 

Santana was injured when they signed him and doesn't have a long track record of success.

 

Kike and Marwin are both utility guys who's main function as plug and play on an as needed basis. They are not full time guys.

 

If you fill your lineup with fall back options like the guys mentioned above, you can't expect long term production.

 

I was never a big fan of his, but there is some revisionist history saying Marwin Gonzalez is not a full time player. He’s been a full time starter for the bulk of his career...

[Bellhorn04]

The money saved in the trade went towards signing Marwin +0.4 bWAR.

 

and/or

 

Sawamura +0.3 bWAR.

 

How much value are Winckowski and 3 PTBNLs?

 

I'm leaving out the money savings. Beni's AAV was 5 million. It's debatable whether the savings were actually required.

 

The value of Winkster and the others is 0.0 for 2021. Future value TBD.

[mvp 78]

I think they expected more from Cordero. He’s never been a star before, but he’s always at least been adequate...

 

Has he at least been healthy?

[mvp 78]

Well, Pillar, Marisnick and others didn't have long term production success, either.

 

Santana was supposed to be ready. He got a new injury. You keep ignoring this.

 

Look, I'm on your side on this. Bloom should have signed an OF'er capable of playing FT OF, but none of the cheapest options had better track records than Renfroe- Cordero- yes.

 

By stating Blooms reasoning, I'm not saying I agree with it, but he obviously thought Kike, Marwin & Santana were enough depth to carry us to Duran.

 

3 injuries put the kabosh on that. If just one injury did not take place, Cordero would be on the bench of at AAA, right now. That is kind of hard to predict.

 

Pillar had a better track record than Renfroe and Cordero. Was pretty cheap too.

[notin]

Well, Pillar, Marisnick and others didn't have long term production success, either.

 

Santana was supposed to be ready. He got a new injury. You keep ignoring this.

 

Look, I'm on your side on this. Bloom should have signed an OF'er capable of playing FT OF, but none of the cheapest options had better track records than Renfroe- Cordero- yes.

 

By stating Blooms reasoning, I'm not saying I agree with it, but he obviously thought Kike, Marwin & Santana were enough depth to carry us to Duran.

 

3 injuries put the kabosh on that. If just one injury did not take place, Cordero would be on the bench of at AAA, right now. That is kind of hard to predict.

 

Slight difference in both of your arguments.

 

MVP appears to be advocating for another actual MLB starter for the OF. You appear to be advocating for more backup players and part timers.

 

Both plans are better than what we got, but yes, some of that is due to unforeseen circumstances...

[notin]

Pillar had a better track record than Renfroe and Cordero. Was pretty cheap too.

 

While true, he is also just a backup at this point in his career.

 

Hey I wanted Puig. He can still be had, but he also has some very serious and bad off-field stuff to deal with first...

[mvp 78]

Slight difference in both of your arguments.

 

MVP appears to be advocating for another actual MLB starter for the OF. You appear to be advocating for more backup players and part timers.

 

Both plans are better than what we got, but yes, some of that is due to unforeseen circumstances...

 

One fulltime guy would have fixed the myriad of issues in the OF. There were cheap options available. Cheap enough that you could have written them off if every other option worked out.

[notin]

One fulltime guy would have fixed the myriad of issues in the OF. There were cheap options available. Cheap enough that you could have written them off if every other option worked out.

 

The problem isn’t guys that could be written off. That’s basically what Cordero and Renfroe are (more so Renfroe).

 

Maybe they had more faith in Duran than we realize?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Munoz is a better hitter and outfielder than Cordero -- and has actually proven both in the Big Leagues. Cordero has never been good in the majors; drop him from the 40, add Munoz. Is anyone actually afraid another team will take Cordero and put him on their roster?

[mvp 78]

The problem isn’t guys that could be written off. That’s basically what Cordero and Renfroe are (more so Renfroe).

 

Maybe they had more faith in Duran than we realize?

 

I honestly think they didn't expect to compete. They expected to be a .500 team and to just be "good enough." This was the bridge year. Sign some AAAA guys and have them round out the roster until Downs/Casas/Duran are ready to come up at the end of 2021. 2022 was the year they were planning for.

[mvp 78]

Munoz is a better hitter and outfielder than Cordero -- and has actually proven both in the Big Leagues. Cordero has never been good in the majors; drop him from the 40, add Munoz. Is anyone actually afraid another team will take Cordero and put him on their roster?

 

Prior to 2021:

 

Munoz career OPS 734, 11HR, WRC+ 97

Cordero career OPS 737, 12HR, WRC+ 97

 

I like Munoz, but he's not that much different than Cordero. Both are fringe players.

Edited May 12, 2021 by mvp 78

[Nick]

Offseason acquisitions:

 

Kiké: fine utility guy who has never been a fulltime player

Marwin: underwhelming utility guy

Renfroe: platoon OF who struggled in 2020

Cordero: platoon OF who has an extensive injury history

 

That's quite the patchwork OF. Hard to see how we would have been excited for that plan if shown that last November.

 

I think above captures the essence of our weakness.

 

Good energy, good bench guy, Kike, does not make a player. And we made him a leadoff hitter all on HOPE.

Cora fell in love with Marwin for his ability to play multiple positions.

Again, someone has already pointed out to me that the Renfore is a career .230 hitter.

Cordero, just unfortunate that we put such a burden on him.

 

I'm a big Dalbec fan but his slow start is highlighted even more because of lack of production from #7-#1 hitters. I thought we could simply hide him in the #9 spot. Problem is 1B is an offensive position. You can't have a gold glove, .180 hitter on first. (yeah I know he's probably not a gold glove guy)

 

Last night in the game thread, someone basically told me to f*** off when I pointed out our lack of production out of 4 hitting spots. He said how can you complain when we lead the lead in many offensive categories?

 

Well, all of us are relatively intelligent. We're fans and we want the team to succeed. Even on May 12th, we see that team needs to some tweaking. Unfortunately we have two players hurt.

 

Quick fix is to make Kike full time outfielder. He's better than Cordero. So that's an improvement.

 

Insert Arroyo/Chavis at 2B. Find a platoon partner for Dalbec.

 

We don't need 4 guys that can play 7 positions. We need a guy that can play one position well.

 

I'm with MVP on this. Again, I'm happy with Bloom. But not to make adjustments when it's needed is unacceptable.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Nick

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Prior to 2021:

 

Munoz career OPS 734, 11HR, WRC+ 97

Cordero career OPS 737, 12HR, WRC+ 97

 

I like Munoz, but he's not that much different than Cordero. Both are fringe players.

 

Munoz makes better contact, gets on base more, and can actually play defense; he's not a project.

[Nick]

Tuesday was the first game ever played at Polar Park in Worcester, and if it was any indication there are going to be balls hit out of that park on a regular basis. The two sides combined for six home runs, with two of them coming off the bat of Duran. The outfield prospect who is perhaps the prospect with the most fan anticipation right now has had some issues putting balls in play early on this year, already with 11 strikeouts in seven games. But it doesn’t matter when he’s hitting the all like this, and he’s at a .962 OPS on the year. It doesn’t sound like they’re in any major rush to bring him up, but he’s showing that he can make an impact at the plate whenever they’re ready.

 

I rather watch this guy with plus, plus speed than Cordero.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Pillar had a better track record than Renfroe and Cordero. Was pretty cheap too.

 

Better thaan Cordero, yes, as many others would have been, too. Renfroe has been as solid as Pillar.

 

BTW, here are the OPS of some OF names mentioned, this past winter:

 

.317 Billy Hamilton

.407 Victor Reyes

(.412 Cordero)

.429 Adam Hasely

.434 Dustin Fowler

.522 Brett Gardner

.536 Dexter Fowler

.545 Jon Jay

.558 JBJ

.585 Amed Rosario & Hunter Dozier

.589 K Kiermaier

.590 Juan Lagares

.610 Joc Pederson

.610 Marcell Ozuna

.631 Gregory Polanco

(.633 Renfroe)

.642 J Profar

.645 E Rosario

.669 Pillar

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

MLB careers BA/OBP/SLG: Franchy in 399 Plate Appearances... .219/.285/.382; Munoz in 555 Plate Appearances... .278/.332/.402

[mvp 78]

I think above captures the essence of our weakness.

 

Good energy, good bench guy, Kike, does not make a player. And we made him a leadoff hitter all on HOPE.

Cora fell in love with Marwin for his ability to play multiple positions.

Again, someone has already pointed out to me that the Renfore is a career .230 hitter.

Cordero, just unfortunate that we put such a burden on him.

 

I'm a big Dalbec fan but his slow start is highlighted even more because of lack of production from #7-#1 hitters. I thought we could simply hide him in the #9 spot. Problem is 1B is an offensive position. You can't have a gold glove, .180 hitter on first. (yeah I know he's probably not a gold glove guy)

 

Last night in the game thread, someone basically told me to f*** off when I pointed out our lack of production out of 4 hitting spots. He said how can you complain when we lead the lead in many offensive categories?

 

Well, all of us are relatively intelligent. We're fans and we want the team to succeed. Even on May 12th, we see that team needs to some tweaking. Unfortunately we have two players hurt.

 

Quick fix is to make Kike full time outfielder. He's better than Cordero. So that's an improvement.

 

Insert Arroyo/Chavis at 2B. Find a platoon partner for Dalbec.

 

We don't need 4 guys that can play 7 positions. We need a guy that can play one position well.

 

I'm with MVP on this. Again, I'm happy with Bloom. But not to make adjustments when it's needed is unacceptable.

 

I think they had already made Kiké the fulltime CF for all intents and purposes. He just got injured.

 

Arroyo/Chavis at 2B is fine with me. You can also use Chavis to rest Dalbec at 1B.

 

If they are going to platoon Dalbec, they have an in house option in Ockimey.

[mvp 78]

Tuesday was the first game ever played at Polar Park in Worcester, and if it was any indication there are going to be balls hit out of that park on a regular basis. The two sides combined for six home runs, with two of them coming off the bat of Duran. The outfield prospect who is perhaps the prospect with the most fan anticipation right now has had some issues putting balls in play early on this year, already with 11 strikeouts in seven games. But it doesn’t matter when he’s hitting the all like this, and he’s at a .962 OPS on the year. It doesn’t sound like they’re in any major rush to bring him up, but he’s showing that he can make an impact at the plate whenever they’re ready.

 

I rather watch this guy with plus, plus speed than Cordero.

 

It's only a matter of time. The question is if it is weeks or months.