What does Frenchy have on the Red Sox

[moonslav59]

If Cordero had JBJ's glove, he'd be worth a longer look.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing he deserves a longer look than he has gotten. Some may feel he never deserves another look, no matter how well he does when sent down.

 

One can argue he got too long a look, but with AAA not playing in April, we didn't really have anyone ready to step right in and play until about now.

 

Not having an extra bench player forced more playing time than he might have had otherwise.

 

It's like people say, "How can Cora play Cordero, when he's 1 for 22?"

 

Well, he has to first go 1 for 22, before Cora knows that he did.

[moonslav59]

It's a piece of paper right now.

 

It's 3 players. We just don't know who they are.

 

Kinda like not knowing who some of our prospects we have are, right now.

[notin]

If Cordero had JBJ's glove, he'd be worth a longer look.

 

 

So the cutoff is 90 PA for weaker defensive players?

 

With fans, this often comes down to whether or not the struggling player is blocking a prospect they want to see. Potential is such a tempting seductress. Not defense.

 

In 2007 the defensively superior Coco Crisp was not crushing it at the plate, giving fans an excuse to scream and yell for Jacoby Ellsbury to be promoted. They weren’t so concerned with Crisp’s glove, which was closer to Bradley’s than any other Sox CF in the past 40 years...

[mvp 78]

It's 3 players. We just don't know who they are.

 

Kinda like not knowing who some of our prospects we have are, right now.

 

None of them have "or cash considerations" attached to the transaction?

[mvp 78]

So the cutoff is 90 PA for weaker defensive players?

 

With fans, this often comes down to whether or not the struggling player is blocking a prospect they want to see. Potential is such a tempting seductress. Not defense.

 

In 2007 the defensively superior Coco Crisp was not crushing it at the plate, giving fans an excuse to scream and yell for Jacoby Ellsbury to be promoted. They weren’t so concerned with Crisp’s glove, which was closer to Bradley’s than any other Sox CF in the past 40 years...

 

Cordero is a unique case. He hasn't been healthy enough to ever play full time. If AAA started on 4/1, he would have probably been there.

 

His swing and miss is just horrendous right now. It's bottom 3% of the league. When Cora is even saying he's "lost" you know the current plan isn't working out. There haven't been much signs of him pulling out of it. It's not "bad luck." He's just completely lost.

 

When JBJ was struggling, he'd at least get on base with a few walks. Cordero can't do that.

 

Yes, if he had gold glove caliber defense, you could make a case for still playing him. Right now, he has options. Send him to AAA.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So the cutoff is 90 PA for weaker defensive players?

 

With fans, this often comes down to whether or not the struggling player is blocking a prospect they want to see. Potential is such a tempting seductress. Not defense.

 

In 2007 the defensively superior Coco Crisp was not crushing it at the plate, giving fans an excuse to scream and yell for Jacoby Ellsbury to be promoted. They weren’t so concerned with Crisp’s glove, which was closer to Bradley’s than any other Sox CF in the past 40 years...

 

I keep saying, the problem with Cordero isn't just that he's not a good hitter, but he's not a good fielder, either (and wheels mean nothing if he can't steal first).

 

Of course, fans would rather see Duran -- if he was ready. But most of us watching would rather see anyone else that could help the team somehow -- cripes, call up Cesar Puello; at least he can play outfield... and he really did crush one over the monster in spring training, which is at least slightly more than having the potential to actually crush one.

[moonslav59]

None of them have "or cash considerations" attached to the transaction?

 

Nope.

 

Apparently, a list of players has already been agreed upon. It was just a matter of scouts needing some time to actually see these guys play a little before choosing.

 

The Mets PTBNL seems the most interesting, as it's just one, and the player they got from the Royals was pretty highly rated.

[moonslav59]

I keep saying, the problem with Cordero isn't just that he's not a good hitter, but he's not a good fielder, either (and wheels mean nothing if he can't steal first).

 

Of course, fans would rather see Duran -- if he was ready. But most of us watching would rather see anyone else that could help the team somehow -- cripes, call up Cesar Puello; at least he can play outfield... and he really did crush one over the monster in spring training, which is at least slightly more than having the potential to actually crush one.

 

Nobody was playing baseball in April, except on the big club.

 

Nobody was ready to be called up.

 

We'd have used Marwin, instead of Cordero, but Arroyo and Kike got hurt at the same time- the exact wrong time.

 

There really was little we could do, and with 14 pitchers, our options were limited. Had Chavis broke ST'ing with the big club, we could have used him at 2B and Marwin in LF.

 

We are getting real close to there being some choices, but then again, Arroyo and Kike come off the IL, soon, so we may still not see any call-ups, except maybe Santana, when his opt out expires.

 

Arauz will be the first sent down, and I hope Cordero or a pitcher will be sent down over Chavis. We might be surprised by Cordero being the first sent down for Kike.

[mvp 78]

I keep saying, the problem with Cordero isn't just that he's not a good hitter, but he's not a good fielder, either (and wheels mean nothing if he can't steal first).

 

Of course, fans would rather see Duran -- if he was ready. But most of us watching would rather see anyone else that could help the team somehow -- cripes, call up Cesar Puello; at least he can play outfield... and he really did crush one over the monster in spring training, which is at least slightly more than having the potential to actually crush one.

 

I'd think long and hard about bringing Wilson up and DFA'ing Cordero. They are probably just waiting on Santana to get healthy.

[mvp 78]

Nobody was playing baseball in April, except on the big club.

 

Nobody was ready to be called up.

 

We'd have used Marwin, instead of Cordero, but Arroyo and Kike got hurt at the same time- the exact wrong time.

 

There really was little we could do, and with 14 pitchers, our options were limited. Had Chavis broke ST'ing with the big club, we could have used him at 2B and Marwin in LF.

 

We are getting real close to there being some choices, but then again, Arroyo and Kike come off the IL, soon, so we may still not see any call-ups, except maybe Santana, when his opt out expires.

 

Arauz will be the first sent down, and I hope Cordero or a pitcher will be sent down over Chavis. We might be surprised by Cordero being the first sent down for Kike.

 

What I'd do:

 

Kiké activated - Send Cordero down

 

Arroyo activated - Send Arauz down

 

DFA Brice - Call up Santana

[notin]

What I'd do:

 

Kiké activated - Send Cordero down

 

Arroyo activated - Send Arauz down

 

DFA Brice - Call up Santana

 

 

 

They already sent Arauz down.

 

I do think Cordero gets demoted and while doing so when Arroyo comes off is possible, more likely they demote Chavis then and wait for Santana to demote Cordero...

[moonslav59]

Getting Kike and Arroyo back effectively add 2 OF'er to the mix (Kike and Marwin, who will be freed from IF need.)

 

I'd like to see Cordero sent down for Kike.

 

Brice DFA'd for Arroyo.

 

When Santana reaches his opt out date, we send Chavis back down, assuming nobody else goes on the IL.

[moonslav59]

They already sent Arauz down.

 

Apparently Kike will be activated before Tuesday's game. That is for Arauz.

 

That leaves Arroyo for _______.

 

DFA Brice or send Cordero or Chavis down. (You all know my choice, but I doubt it's Bloom's choice.)

 

Santana for _______.

[mvp 78]

Apparently Kike will be activated before Tuesday's game. That is for Arauz.

 

That leaves Arroyo for _______.

 

DFA Brice or send Cordero or Chavis down. (You all know my choice, but I doubt it's Bloom's choice.)

 

Santana for _______.

 

Kiké for Cordero.

 

OF would be Verdugo LF, Kiké CF, Renfroe RF

[moonslav59]

Kiké for Cordero.

 

OF would be Verdugo LF, Kiké CF, Renfroe RF

 

They already demoted Arauz for Kike.

 

Arroyo is next- hopefully for Cordero (or Brice) not Chavis.

[notin]

They already demoted Arauz for Kike.

 

Arroyo is next- hopefully for Cordero (or Brice) not Chavis.

 

Career-wise there isn’t much difference between Cordero and Chavis. The biggest difference is Cordero is an outfielder, and that’s a bigger need on this team right now. But in time, I think both will be demoted...

[moonslav59]

Career-wise there isn’t much difference between Cordero and Chavis. The biggest difference is Cordero is an outfielder, and that’s a bigger need on this team right now. But in time, I think both will be demoted...

 

Chavis allows Marwin to play OF not 2B or 1B, so he basically evens out the OF need, in my book.

 

Cordero obviously needs to work on some things. Chavis just needs a chance to show whether he belongs or not. Now, seems like the perfect time.

 

Cordero can play everyday in AAA. That's what he needs.

 

Playing him everyday in Boston would (likely) be harmful to the team.

[oldtimer]

Chavis allows Marwin to play OF not 2B or 1B, so he basically evens out the OF need, in my book.

 

Cordero obviously needs to work on some things. Chavis just needs a chance to show whether he belongs or not. Now, seems like the perfect time.

 

Cordero can play everyday in AAA. That's what he needs.

 

Playing him everyday in Boston would (likely) be harmful to the team.

 

I agree that Cordero should be sent down where he can work on his hitting without being a drag on the Red Sox team. Chavis is a bit of a different issue. He has been working on laying off the high fastball for a couple of years but it seems he has been unable to avoid going after high fastballs out of the zone. He has some value but that weakness is one that may keep him off the Sox team going forward.

[notin]

So the consensus is 26yo Cordero has an OPS+ of 82 in 406 PA with a 35.5% K rate and needs work but the 25yo Chavis, who has an OPS+of 89 in 567 PA with a 33.3% K rate just needs a bigger chance?

[Bellhorn04]

So the consensus is 26yo Cordero has an OPS+ of 82 in 406 PA with a 35.5% K rate and needs work but the 25yo Chavis, who has an OPS+of 89 in 567 PA with a 33.3% K rate just needs a bigger chance?

 

It's more about this year. Cordero has a .448 OPS in 91 PA's, and O homers. No one is saying to DFA him, just to demote him so he can work on his game.

[moonslav59]

I agree that Cordero should be sent down where he can work on his hitting without being a drag on the Red Sox team. Chavis is a bit of a different issue. He has been working on laying off the high fastball for a couple of years but it seems he has been unable to avoid going after high fastballs out of the zone. He has some value but that weakness is one that may keep him off the Sox team going forward.

 

I'd like to give him another shot. It's not like he's hitting .448- like Cordero.

 

Yes, he needs to lay off the high fastballs, and you'd think he's had long enough to do that, and he's not likely to learn it in the next few weeks, but as of now, he's not hurting the team like Cordero is, so I give the nod to him.

 

I also have this position of trying not to keep guys like Chavis on the 40 man roster for years while never really giving them a long look to find out once and for all, if they are ML material.

 

I know when you are a winning team, it's not always easy to find time to do that, but with our current situation, it seems like the perfect time to give Chavis a long look- perhaps his last one. That's not to say he can't go on to show he belongs with another team, if we end up cutting him loose, but I'd like to see him get a long enough look to say, "We tried." Yes, he K's a lot, but he had some decent numbers in the minors and his first month in MLB, so I'd like to see him get at least one more extended chance.

 

Cordero may get another look, later, but let him show he can do it at AAA, before he gets a second loo with us. maybe by then, Chavis will have shown it's time to say bye-bye. Maybe not.

 

[moonslav59]

It's more about this year. Cordero has a .448 OPS in 91 PA's, and O homers. No one is saying to DFA him, just to demote him so he can work on his game.

 

Exactly, and at least Chavis is hitting over .600 and has a dinger.

 

I wouldn't be against seeing Cordero again, later- once he shows he's hitting well in AAA.

[moonslav59]

So the consensus is 26yo Cordero has an OPS+ of 82 in 406 PA with a 35.5% K rate and needs work but the 25yo Chavis, who has an OPS+of 89 in 567 PA with a 33.3% K rate just needs a bigger chance?

 

Yes.

 

Cordero is struggling of late. I'd rather not have him "work through it" at the expense of the big club.

 

Chavis may or may not struggle going forward, and one could say the same about Cordero, but I think Cordero needs to take a step back, right now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes.

 

Cordero is struggling of late. I'd rather not have him "work through it" at the expense of the big club.

 

Chavis may or may not struggle going forward, and one could say the same about Cordero, but I think Cordero needs to take a step back, right now.

 

Ultimately, if the Sox decide to go for it after all (depending on their record by the deadline) I just don't think either one of these guys will prevent the team from adding a legitimate MLB outfielder to the 26.

[moonslav59]

Ultimately, if the Sox decide to go for it after all (depending on their record by the deadline) I just don't think either one of these guys will prevent the team from adding a legitimate MLB outfielder to the 26.

 

Agreed, and maybe we can get a good one who is also a salary dump that does not put us over the tax line.

 

We may also need a very good RPer or two, so we may have to go over to greatly improve our 2021 chances.

 

Getting RPers is almost always a dice roll.

Edited May 17, 2021 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Agreed, and maybe we can get a good one who is also a salary dump that does not put us over the tax line.

 

We may also need a very good RPer or two, so we may have to go over to greatly improve our 2021 chances.

 

Getting RPers is almost always a dice roll.

 

I concur (an odd compound word that in dual languages translates to "with a dog"). The trick may be to add a veteran reliever with a pennant race pedigree and not someone who's 2021 hot that will cost a legit prospect... which I personally can't ever see Bloom parting with for a bullpen piece.

[notin]

I concur (an odd compound word that in dual languages translates to "with a dog"). The trick may be to add a veteran reliever with a pennant race pedigree and not someone who's 2021 hot that will cost a legit prospect... which I personally can't ever see Bloom parting with for a bullpen piece.

 

So... Brandon Workman?

[moonslav59]

So... Brandon Workman?

 

The perfect example of a gamble gone wrong (for the Phillies.)

 

Last year, Bloom traded Workman, Hembree and Osich along with Moreland and Pillar.

[Bellhorn04]

I concur (an odd compound word that in dual languages translates to "with a dog").

 

So what does recur translate to - "about a dog"? Or incur - "not a dog"?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So what does recur translate to - "about a dog"? Or incur - "not a dog"?

 

Recur is one that keeps barking, over and over. Incur is the stuffing from the bed he bit to pieces out of frustration, from being forced to take a catnap (which is a misnomer in any language).