Terrible terrible choice not to go hard after Morton .Lose out on Springer I’m out !!

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure it's a good idea to count on it. Every team needs pitching.

 

I'm not saying don't sign anyone until bargain basement time, but I do think the quality of players, including pitchers, leftover will be better than usual.

 

I could see us signing a good mid ranged pitcher, like Ordozzi, Quintana, Tanaka or Paxton and maybe a decent CF'er or RP'er, then wait until near the end and swoop to sign 4-7 decent players.

[moonslav59]

The OP in this thread is why we can't have nice things

 

+100

[Thunder]

I'm not saying don't sign anyone until bargain basement time, but I do think the quality of players, including pitchers, leftover will be better than usual.

 

I could see us signing a good mid ranged pitcher, like Ordozzi, Quintana, Tanaka or Paxton and maybe a decent CF'er or RP'er, then wait until near the end and swoop to sign 4-7 decent players.

 

I agree with that assessment. So many names on the market this year that as long as you get one, you'll probably pick up a good name.

 

Not sure how I feel about Tanaka though. When his sinker stays up, there's no reason for me to think he's any different from Porcello

[moonslav59]

I agree with that assessment. So many names on the market this year that as long as you get one, you'll probably pick up a good name.

 

Not sure how I feel about Tanaka though. When his sinker stays up, there's no reason for me to think he's any different from Porcello

 

I just listed like-skilled starters. I'd prefer the others over Tanaka, too, but he's not a bad pitcher.

[Thunder]

I just listed like-skilled starters. I'd prefer the others over Tanaka, too, but he's not a bad pitcher.

 

Yeah, I got what you meant. I also could never imagine Tanaka in Boston. I'd feel bad for him the first time we went to NYY

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not saying don't sign anyone until bargain basement time, but I do think the quality of players, including pitchers, leftover will be better than usual.

 

I could see us signing a good mid ranged pitcher, like Ordozzi, Quintana, Tanaka or Paxton and maybe a decent CF'er or RP'er, then wait until near the end and swoop to sign 4-7 decent players.

 

Players and agents are also well aware of the current economic realities and might be in a bigger hurry to sign this offseason, so some of the bargains might come earlier than expected.

[moonslav59]

Players and agents are also well aware of the current economic realities and might be in a bigger hurry to sign this offseason, so some of the bargains might come earlier than expected.

 

Good point, and I was rather shocked to see Morton get $15M/1.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not saying don't sign anyone until bargain basement time, but I do think the quality of players, including pitchers, leftover will be better than usual.

 

I could see us signing a good mid ranged pitcher, like Ordozzi, Quintana, Tanaka or Paxton and maybe a decent CF'er or RP'er, then wait until near the end and swoop to sign 4-7 decent players.

 

I just posted something similar to this on the other thread. Maybe a '13 offseason strategy isn't so unreasonable.

[moonslav59]

I just posted something similar to this on the other thread. Maybe a '13 offseason strategy isn't so unreasonable.

 

I mentioned something about following a similar path as 2013 on another thread, too, but we I doubt we have the spending budget of that winter. Maybe not even half.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I mentioned something about following a similar path as 2013 on another thread, too, but we I doubt we have the spending budget of that winter. Maybe not even half.

 

But that may be enough to get things done, with this winter's market adjustments, as far as 2020 dollars affording 2020 players...

[Hugh2]

Yeah man, I'm all about blowing up the farm and the payroll to compete for 2nd place too.

 

Cool story.

[moonslav59]

But that may be enough to get things done, with this winter's market adjustments, as far as 2020 dollars affording 2020 players...

 

"Get things done" as in what? Compete for a wild card slot and maybe miss out?

 

We likely will spend less than half of what was spent before the 2013 season. We may have more high need areas than that team had going into the previous off season.

 

I can't see us getting highly competitive on a $15-25M spending budget. I can't see us trading away the future to get better for just now.

 

Unless Henry approves us going maybe $19M over the tax line for 2021, I'm thinking 2nd place may be wishful thinking.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

"Get things done" as in what? Compete for a wild card slot and maybe miss out?

 

We likely will spend less than half of what was spent before the 2013 season. We may have more high need areas than that team had going into the previous off season.

 

I can't see us getting highly competitive on a $15-25M spending budget. I can't see us trading away the future to get better for just now.

 

Unless Henry approves us going maybe $19M over the tax line for 2021, I'm thinking 2nd place may be wishful thinking.

 

Fixing the holes where the rain gets in. But it won't stop our minds from wondering...

 

Bloom's MO is to continually upgrade, but gradually... when I read that about him, I envisioned him replacing a guy with -1 WAR to 0 WAR, and then eventually packaging that guy into a deal where he nets a player worth 1 WAR. Put it this way, there's little chance he's ever involved in one-fell transformative swoop or orchestrates a 17-player trade like the Yanks and O's pulled off in 1954.

 

There are always bound to be incremental changes, but waiting another five years for a Juan Soto trade (like Pete Abraham posed today) feels like half a decade from now.

[jacksonianmarch]

Why George Springer? That is a move I expect the Mutts to make. Springer is a guy who's game, IMO, falls off a cliff 2-3 years into the deal and that is when the sox expect to contend again. Springer isnt a guy you go after. Bauer as well. When you sign those guys, you announce to the world that you are going to contend in the upcoming season, and I do not think the sox will

[Bellhorn04]

Why George Springer? That is a move I expect the Mutts to make. Springer is a guy who's game, IMO, falls off a cliff 2-3 years into the deal and that is when the sox expect to contend again. Springer isnt a guy you go after. Bauer as well. When you sign those guys, you announce to the world that you are going to contend in the upcoming season, and I do not think the sox will

 

If we sign Bauer, we might be closer to a contender than you think. Plus it would get the fans a little more interested. Plus it would be a multi-year signing, obviously.

 

Not saying that's what's going to happen, but if the Sox do make a splash signing, that'd be the one. Pitching, baby.

[illinoisredsox]

I agree with that assessment. So many names on the market this year that as long as you get one, you'll probably pick up a good name.

 

Not sure how I feel about Tanaka though. When his sinker stays up, there's no reason for me to think he's any different from Porcello

 

Never, ever sign ex-Yankees, especially long time members of the Evil empire. The stench is too great.

 

Plus they never seem to do as well once the pinstripes come off.

 

Players who basically had a cup of coffee with them are okay. Anything longer than a year, forget it.

[notin]

Never, ever sign ex-Yankees, especially long time members of the Evil empire. The stench is too great.

 

Plus they never seem to do as well once the pinstripes come off.

 

Players who basically had a cup of coffee with them are okay. Anything longer than a year, forget it.

 

Interestingly, a long line of Yankee stars came out of the Red Sox organization - Babe Ruth, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Sparky Lyle, Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Luis Tiant, Roger Clemens, etc.

 

For some reason, the reverse is simply not true, and former Yankees coming to Boston are always flops, with the one exception I can think of as Don Baylor. And he only played in Boston for two seasons. The only other positive contribution from a former Yankee I can think of was from Tony Armas Jr. whose primary skill seemed to be injuring his pitching arm. But at least he was enticement enough for the Expos to trade Pedro. And Mike Torrez was not horrible, I guess...

[harmony]

Interestingly, a long line of Yankee stars came out of the Red Sox organization - Babe Ruth, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Sparky Lyle, Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Luis Tiant, Roger Clemens, etc.

On a tangent, recommended is the 2020 book War Fever: Boston, Baseball, and America in the Shadow of the Great War, which follows three German-Americans -- Babe Ruth, the conductor of the Boston Symphony Orchestra and a Harvard-educated lawyer -- through World War I and the Spanish flu epidemic:

 

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-5416-7266-6

[Bellhorn04]

Interestingly, a long line of Yankee stars came out of the Red Sox organization - Babe Ruth, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Sparky Lyle, Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Luis Tiant, Roger Clemens, etc.

 

Ellsbury is the only one who was a bust for them, and he was a large one.

[jad]

Interestingly, a long line of Yankee stars came out of the Red Sox organization - Babe Ruth, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Sparky Lyle, Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Luis Tiant, Roger Clemens, etc.

 

For some reason, the reverse is simply not true, and former Yankees coming to Boston are always flops, with the one exception I can think of as Don Baylor. And he only played in Boston for two seasons. The only other positive contribution from a former Yankee I can think of was from Tony Armas Jr. whose primary skill seemed to be injuring his pitching arm. But at least he was enticement enough for the Expos to trade Pedro. And Mike Torrez was not horrible, I guess...

 

Didn't Elston Howard put in a year with RS?

[mvp 78]

Didn't Elston Howard put in a year with RS?

 

1.5

 

He was traded to the Sox midseason in 67.

[notin]

Didn't Elston Howard put in a year with RS?

 

Yes and his .564 OPS was some 200 points below his pinstriped numbers...

[mvp 78]

Interestingly, a long line of Yankee stars came out of the Red Sox organization - Babe Ruth, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Sparky Lyle, Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Luis Tiant, Roger Clemens, etc.

 

For some reason, the reverse is simply not true, and former Yankees coming to Boston are always flops, with the one exception I can think of as Don Baylor. And he only played in Boston for two seasons. The only other positive contribution from a former Yankee I can think of was from Tony Armas Jr. whose primary skill seemed to be injuring his pitching arm. But at least he was enticement enough for the Expos to trade Pedro. And Mike Torrez was not horrible, I guess...

 

Mike Stanley

Ben Chapman

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/multifranchise.cgi?level=team&t1=BOS-BOS&t2=NYY-NYY&t3=--&t4=--

[notin]

Ellsbury is the only one who was a bust for them, and he was a large one.

 

While he was a bust for them, especially at his price, he did manage to play 520 games for them with an OPS of .716, which was below the .789 he had with the Sox.

 

But it is hard to find a former Yankee who came to Boston that was even worth putting in 520 games. As far as I can tell, the all time leader in Red Sox games by former Yankees is 268 by Don Baylor, ahead of the 240 by Ben Chapman...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Arnold Rothstein is still sending checks to Ramiro Mendoza for his work as a double agent in Boston circa '03/04...

[mvp 78]

Going through the list:

 

Jackie Jensen definitely didn't flop going to the Sox.

 

I'd argue that Boggs was far better as a Sox than a Yankee. Also, Tiante was not a "star" for the Yankees.

[mvp 78]

While he was a bust for them, especially at his price, he did manage to play 520 games for them with an OPS of .716, which was below the .789 he had with the Sox.

 

But it is hard to find a former Yankee who came to Boston that was even worth putting in 520 games. As far as I can tell, the all time leader in Red Sox games by former Yankees is 268 by Don Baylor, ahead of the 240 by Ben Chapman...

 

Again, Jackie Jensen.

[notin]

Mike Stanley

Ben Chapman

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/multifranchise.cgi?level=team&t1=BOS-BOS&t2=NYY-NYY&t3=--&t4=--

 

I stand corrected. Mike Stanley is the undisputed champion of former Yankees in Boston (for players with over a full season in pinstripes. Otherwise it's Jackie Jensen.)

 

I mentioned Mike Torrez earlier, but I didn't realize he only played one season in the Bronx. He actually pitched fewer games and IP for the Yankees than Nathan Eovaldi...

[notin]

Again, Jackie Jensen.

 

Well, the original postulate was that they stink unless they played minimal time for the Yankees. Jensen's 289 at bats spread out over 3 years is pretty minimal to me...

[notin]

Going through the list:

 

Jackie Jensen definitely didn't flop going to the Sox.

 

I'd argue that Boggs was far better as a Sox than a Yankee. Also, Tiante was not a "star" for the Yankees.

 

Boggswas better for the Sox than Yankees, but also better for the Yankees than most (all?) ex-pinstripers were for the Sox, at least for those who played at least one full season in the Bronx...