Terrible terrible choice not to go hard after Morton .Lose out on Springer I’m out !!

[moonslav59]

Yes I suppose so.

 

I agree on Beltre, though. The guy was a keeper!

 

The fact that Youkilis, despite having a good 2011 season, fell off a cliff shortly after Beltre left made his departure even worse.

 

2010: .975

2011: .833

2012: .692 (traded)

[jad]

The other time in the last 10 years I got upset was when they didn't keep Adrian Beltre. Yes he knocked Jacoby Ellsbury around, but that was an accident Seriously, what a fantastic third baseman. He should have been locked up in a long term deal.

 

Watch the video. Ellsbury never called off Beltre. His mouth never moved.

 

A 3Bman is supposed to run hard after every pop up, until he is called off.

 

It was no accident. It was gross negligence on Ellsbury's part.

 

 

OK. But what is an OF (or any fielder) supposed to do when they are running full bore but aren't sure they can make the play? Ellsbury can't really call off the 3B, can he, unless he's sure he can make the catch? There's no real way to do this, is there? (You can't call out "I'm laying out for this, but hey if you think you have a better chance let me know, Jesus Christ here it comes ..."). (Not arguing here--I just don't know how this is handled. Coaches? Players? Anyone?)

[notin]

OK. But what is an OF (or any fielder) supposed to do when they are running full bore but aren't sure they can make the play? Ellsbury can't really call off the 3B, can he, unless he's sure he can make the catch? There's no real way to do this, is there? (You can't call out "I'm laying out for this, but hey if you think you have a better chance let me know, Jesus Christ here it comes ..."). (Not arguing here--I just don't know how this is handled. Coaches? Players? Anyone?)

 

Ellsbury has to make that call, as he is the one with the play in front of him. If he thinks he can get it, he should call off Beltre. If he does not think he can get to it or thinks Beltre has a better shot, he has to back off.

 

Of course, Beltre did have a bad habit of sidelining Sox left fielders that year...

[moonslav59]

OK. But what is an OF (or any fielder) supposed to do when they are running full bore but aren't sure they can make the play? Ellsbury can't really call off the 3B, can he, unless he's sure he can make the catch? There's no real way to do this, is there? (You can't call out "I'm laying out for this, but hey if you think you have a better chance let me know, Jesus Christ here it comes ..."). (Not arguing here--I just don't know how this is handled. Coaches? Players? Anyone?)

 

Your point is well taken, but if two players are running hard in the same direction, it is the OF'ers responsibility to decide to call for the ball and try to make the catch or decide to veer off and let the IF'er try and make the play.

 

My point is that so many people blame Beltre for that play, and he did exactly what he is supposed to do -- run hard after a ball over his head until he hears someone call him off.

 

Is see his culpability as 0%.

 

The play is in front of Ellsbury. It's up to him to make the decision- write or wrong and either yell, "I got it!" or avoid a collision.

 

I blame Ellsbury, and it's not the only time he did something like this. (I seem to recall he almost had a collision with the SS, in that same game.)

[moonslav59]

Ellsbury has to make that call, as he is the one with the play in front of him. If he thinks he can get it, he should call off Beltre. If he does not think he can get to it or thinks Beltre has a better shot, he has to back off.

 

Of course, Beltre did have a bad habit of sidelining Sox left fielders that year...

 

He's a great defender who followed all the right procedures for an IF'er. He was a solidly built player and was likely to "leave a mark" on anyone colliding with him.

 

He played "all out," and I admire that style, despite the dangers it may involve for players not following procedures taught to them in as far back as Little League,

[notin]

Your point is well taken, but if two players are running hard in the same direction, it is the OF'ers responsibility to decide to call for the ball and try to make the catch or decide to veer off and let the IF'er try and make the play.

 

My point is that so many people blame Beltre for that play, and he did exactly what he is supposed to do -- run hard after a ball over his head until he hears someone call him off.

 

Is see his culpability as 0%.

 

The play is in front of Ellsbury. It's up to him to make the decision- write or wrong and either yell, "I got it!" or avoid a collision.

 

I blame Ellsbury, and it's not the only time he did something like this. (I seem to recall he almost had a collision with the SS, in that same game.)

 

Also Ellsbury needs to know that he is in foul ground, which makes simply backing off and letting Beltre take the chance or calling Beltre off a low risk play anyway. That he let it go like it did just increased the risk of injury...

[moonslav59]

Also Ellsbury needs to know that he is in foul ground, which makes simply backing off and letting Beltre take the chance or calling Beltre off a low risk play anyway. That he let it go like it did just increased the risk of injury...

 

Never thought of that, but it's a good point. I admire Ellsbury going "all out" on that play, but he's the general and has to make the call.

[jad]

OK. I think I got it. E, if he's prepared to go full on dive for the ball and has any chance at all, has to yell "I got it!" If the IF is just drifting out there and knows absolutely he can get it, he will have time to call E off? (I do recall from what little playing I did that camping under a ball for an easy catch, then getting called off by someone trying to make a spectacular diving play was more than mildly irritating.--of course, maybe the adolescent angst of that doesn't apply--or shouldn't apply--to play at this level.)

[kenmeister]

I agree on Beltre, though. The guy was a keeper!

 

The fact that Youkilis, despite having a good 2011 season, fell off a cliff shortly after Beltre left made his departure even worse.

 

2010: .975

2011: .833

2012: .692 (traded)

 

You know, I never really put this together in my head, but I think I never believed in the 2013 team because I was upset that Beltre & Martinez were gone, as well as the chicken and beer incident from 2011 and the Bobby Valentine debacle from 2012. I'm still mad at myself for not getting cable in August of 2013 so I could watch the playoffs. (Nowadays of course I know where to go on the internet to watch any baseball game...)

[moonslav59]

You know, I never really put this together in my head, but I think I never believed in the 2013 team because I was upset that Beltre & Martinez were gone, as well as the chicken and beer incident from 2011 and the Bobby Valentine debacle from 2012. I'm still mad at myself for not getting cable in August of 2013 so I could watch the playoffs. (Nowadays of course I know where to go on the internet to watch any baseball game...)

 

I'm usually over confident each winter/spring. I, too, was not in 2013, and I wasn't for 2020, either. I had thought we should have gone younger with all the deals in 2012 and shot for 2014-2015.

 

I think, with a few additions, we can compete for the playoffs in 2021 and maybe more in 2022.

[kenmeister]

I'm usually over confident each winter/spring. I, too, was not in 2013, and I wasn't for 2020, either. I had thought we should have gone younger with all the deals in 2012 and shot for 2014-2015.

 

I think, with a few additions, we can compete for the playoffs in 2021 and maybe more in 2022.

 

I agree - there's a good solid core here, especially if E-Rod and Sale are pitching as well as they usually do by season's end. My big concern for 2021 as far as the core goes is J.D. Martinez.

[moonslav59]

I agree - there's a good solid core here, especially if E-Rod and Sale are pitching as well as they usually do by season's end. My big concern for 2021 as far as the core goes is J.D. Martinez.

 

If JD is still down in 2021, it will hurt a lot, especially the budget space he takes up, but our offense can still be very good.