Terrible terrible choice not to go hard after Morton .Lose out on Springer I’m out !!

[notin]

Going through the list:

 

Jackie Jensen definitely didn't flop going to the Sox.

 

I'd argue that Boggs was far better as a Sox than a Yankee. Also, Tiante was not a "star" for the Yankees.

 

Tiant was certainly a shell of his former self from his days in Cleveland and Boston, but the list of former Yankee pitcher in Boston who made 55 starts and 332 IP is really, really small...

[jad]

Jensen, wow. When I came to sports consciousness he was in RF, and one of my favorites. I just assumed at that age that he had been with the RS since the Big Bang (which I'm not sure had been discovered yet).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One month after his trade to Boston, ARod slipped on the pinstripes; he went 2-for-17 in the final four games of the ALCS, wore blue lip gloss, and slapped Bronson's glove. Edited December 2, 2020 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[Bellhorn04]

Arnold Rothstein is still sending checks to Ramiro Mendoza for his work as a double agent in Boston circa '03/04...

 

Trivia note on Mendoza: he was the losing pitcher in Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS, despite giving up only 1 of the 19 runs.

 

And that was his last major league appearance, except for 1 for the Yankees in 2005.

[Bellhorn04]

Boggswas better for the Sox than Yankees, but also better for the Yankees than most (all?) ex-pinstripers were for the Sox, at least for those who played at least one full season in the Bronx...

 

f*** Boggs, and the horse he rode in on.

[Bellhorn04]

One month after his trade to Boston, ARod slipped on the pinstripes; he went 2-for-17 in the final four games of the ALCS, wore blue lip gloss, and slapped Bronson's glove.

 

Which led to one of the great works of Photoshop art.

[mvp 78]

Batters who were better after going to the Sox (played over 50 games for each org):

 

Del Pratt, Eduardo Nunez, Jackie Jensen, John Kennedy, Jake Stahl

 

Batters who were worse after going to the Yankees:

 

Joe Dugan, Wade Boggs, Jim Leyritz, Ellsbury, Bob Watson, Spike Owen, Lou Clinton, Roy Johnston, Danny MacFayden

[notin]

Batters who were better after going to the Sox (played over 50 games for each org):

 

Del Pratt, Eduardo Nunez, Jackie Jensen, John Kennedy, Jake Stahl

 

Batters who were worse after going to the Yankees:

 

Joe Dugan, Wade Boggs, Jim Leyritz, Ellsbury, Bob Watson, Spike Owen, Lou Clinton, Roy Johnston, Danny MacFayden

 

Not sure I am so confident that Nunez' .694 OPS with Boston is all that much of an improvement over the .692 he posted with the Yankees.

 

But overall the bottom line is, the Sox have had very little luck with anyone who wore pinstripes for a full season. And the converse is not true. So yeah, avoid Tanaka...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trivia note on Mendoza: he was the losing pitcher in Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS, despite giving up only 1 of the 19 runs.

 

And that was his last major league appearance, except for 1 for the Yankees in 2005.

 

He gave up other pitchers' runs: to the first batter he faced he gave up a line drive RBI single... then vs. the next batter he balked in a run. His final batter (ever as a Red Sox pitcher) he hit with a pitch; that gave him a total in the '04 ALCS of two games, two IP, and two HBP. I don't know why I still hold a grudge.

[mvp 78]

Well, the original postulate was that they stink unless they played minimal time for the Yankees. Jensen's 289 at bats spread out over 3 years is pretty minimal to me...

 

Players with over 200 games that started with the Yankees and went to the Sox:

Mike Stanley, Danny Cater, Don Baylor, Ben Champan, Edudardo Nunez, Del Pratt

 

Of those guys, maybe Baylor had the biggest drop off, but I don't think anyone in 86 thought he underperformed. Danny Cater wasn't as good. I'd say the rest were either better or at least as good as what they were for the Yankees.

[mvp 78]

Not sure I am so confident that Nunez' .694 OPS with Boston is all that much of an improvement over the .692 he posted with the Yankees.

 

But overall the bottom line is, the Sox have had very little luck with anyone who wore pinstripes for a full season. And the converse is not true. So yeah, avoid Tanaka...

 

Are you saying that guys that go to the Yankees are more often than not better than what they were for the Sox?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Post to Kevin Youkilis, Butch Hobson and George "Boomer" Scott... was that really necessary?

[jacksonianmarch]

He gave up other pitchers' runs: to the first batter he faced he gave up a line drive RBI single... then vs. the next batter he balked in a run. His final batter (ever as a Red Sox pitcher) he hit with a pitch; that gave him a total in the '04 ALCS of two games, two IP, and two HBP. I don't know why I still hold a grudge.

 

Mendoza threw multiple innings in tons of appearances. He is the warning for your arm falling off

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Mendoza threw multiple innings in tons of appearances. He is the warning for your arm falling off

 

A busted wing may account for control issues and HBPs, but the guy pitched for years in postseasons and won multiple rings in NY. So there's no excuse for balking in a run with the pennant on the line (unless he was undercover or gamblers were holding his family hostage).

[notin]

Post to Kevin Youkilis, Butch Hobson and George "Boomer" Scott... was that really necessary?

 

Hey when you need work, you bleed the colors of the teams willing to sign the checks...

[mvp 78]

Pitchers with over 50 innings since 1980 that were no bueno for the Sox, but mucho bueno for the Yankees:

Mendoza

Andrew Miller

Tom Gordon

Chris Hammond

Doug Bird

 

Pitchers with over 50 innings since 1980 that were no bueno for the Yankees, but mucho bueno for the sox:

null

[mvp 78]

A busted wing may account for control issues and HBPs, but the guy pitched for years in postseasons and won multiple rings in NY. So there's no excuse for balking in a run with the pennant on the line (unless he was undercover or gamblers were holding his family hostage).

 

Are you talking about the 19-8 game? Relitigating that one?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Are you talking about the 19-8 game? Relitigating that one?

 

Boston played eight more games after that and Francona never let him sniff the mound again. It's one of the reasons Boston played eight more games.

[notin]

Pitchers with over 50 innings since 1980 that were no bueno for the Sox, but mucho bueno for the Yankees:

Mendoza

Andrew Miller

Tom Gordon

Chris Hammond

Doug Bird

 

Pitchers with over 50 innings since 1980 that were no bueno for the Yankees, but mucho bueno for the sox:

null

 

Huh?

 

Tom Gordon was no bueno for the Sox? He was worth 9.9 fWAR in his first 3 seasons in mutliple roles. and was 46 for 47 in save chances in 1998. His 2 seasons with the Yankees totaled 3.7 fWAR.

 

I am questioning if you understand was "no bueno" means and think you might not know enough Spanish to live in Florida...

[mvp 78]

The gall of Mendoza to give up 1 run in the 3rd inning of Game 3 of the ALCS!

 

Every other pitcher for the Red Sox that day gave up more runs than that. He arguably pitched the best out of anyone to put on a Sox uni that day.

[mvp 78]

Huh?

 

Tom Gordon was no bueno for the Sox? He was worth 9.9 fWAR in his first 3 seasons in mutliple roles. and was 46 for 47 in save chances in 1998. His 2 seasons with the Yankees totaled 3.7 fWAR.

 

I am questioning if you understand was "no bueno" means and think you might not know enough Spanish to live in Florida...

 

He had a higher fWAR as a reliever for the Yanks in 04 than when he relieved in Boston.

 

Not sure I'm going to jizz in my pants over his 5.59 ERA in 96 that gave the Sox 2.8 WAR.

 

He was better in pinstripes.

[mvp 78]

Gordon: better LOB rate, k rate and bb rate with Yanks = better with the Yankees

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The gall of Mendoza to give up 1 run in the 3rd inning of Game 3 of the ALCS!

 

Every other pitcher for the Red Sox that day gave up more runs than that. He arguably pitched the best out of anyone to put on a Sox uni that day.

 

What was I thinking -- inherited runners don't matter to relievers! He was arguably better than his two regular seasons in Boston and his 5.73 ERA!

[moonslav59]

Gordon: better LOB rate, k rate and bb rate with Yanks = better with the Yankees

 

"better" with the Yanks (up for debate) does not mean "no bueno" for the Sox.

[kenmeister]

LSorry folks I’m disgusted by the lack of talk of the obvious players this team needs to compete in 21 .Where the hell is the draw to even follow this gutterball team ? We need Springer more than anything else this winter .The future at pitching is not a concern for me .Get springer put some excitement back in this rain cloud team .Move Devers to 1b he’s a butcher at 3rd go get Arenado .Im done waiting Get me a ring !!!!!! If you want pitching Snell is the guy you go after period .Yup I want Springer I want Arenado and snell .!,, this is about rings period .You ain’t first your last Ricky Bobby .Devers Benny Chavis Mata are on the block .Bring in Lemeiuw lol yeah I spelt dat .Thats right now I want springer Snell Arenaudo And the ex Yankee .Or I’m a Ghost .I know I know it’s brilliant .Thankyou in advance !!!!! It’s sooooo much better with my input Booo

 

Sorry didn't read the whole thread but I had to respond to the first post.

 

It's hard to get worked up for 2021. This team has a lot of holes, maybe no more than the 2012 team, who won it a year later, but I seriously doubt they'll be competing for a ring in 2021.

 

The year I got really pissed off was the year Nelson Cruz and Max Scherzer were available, and they picked up Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez instead. In fact Nelson Cruz has been repeatedly available, and they have never been interested in him. I have no idea why.

 

The other time in the last 10 years I got upset was when they didn't keep Adrian Beltre. Yes he knocked Jacoby Ellsbury around, but that was an accident Seriously, what a fantastic third baseman. He should have been locked up in a long term deal. I think I was upset about Victor Martinez leaving the same year. Oh yeah, and not keeping Lester but everyone agrees on that point.

 

I'm not happy about Mookie Betts being gone ... but I'm already a huge Verdugo fan.

 

As for 2021, it is entirely possible Rodriguez - Sale - Eovaldi - Houck - Pinneta turns out to be a good rotation by year's end. And I'm guessing they bring Bradley back for CF.

[moonslav59]

The other time in the last 10 years I got upset was when they didn't keep Adrian Beltre. Yes he knocked Jacoby Ellsbury around, but that was an accident Seriously, what a fantastic third baseman. He should have been locked up in a long term deal.

 

Watch the video. Ellsbury never called off Beltre. His mouth never moved.

 

A 3Bman is supposed to run hard after every pop up, until he is called off.

 

It was no accident. It was gross negligence on Ellsbury's part.

 

[notin]

Gordon: better LOB rate, k rate and bb rate with Yanks = better with the Yankees

 

But he spent most of his innings in Boston as a starter, which can give him an inflated bb rate and reduced k rate as opposed to a relief pitcher. It's not a fair comp...

[kenmeister]

The other time in the last 10 years I got upset was when they didn't keep Adrian Beltre. Yes he knocked Jacoby Ellsbury around, but that was an accident Seriously, what a fantastic third baseman. He should have been locked up in a long term deal.

 

Watch the video. Ellsbury never called off Beltre. His mouth never moved.

 

A 3Bman is supposed to run hard after every pop up, until he is called off.

 

It was no accident. It was gross negligence on Ellsbury's part.

 

 

Yes I suppose so.

[mvp 78]

But he spent most of his innings in Boston as a starter, which can give him an inflated bb rate and reduced k rate as opposed to a relief pitcher. It's not a fair comp...

 

Also gives him an inflated fWAR.

[notin]

Also gives him an inflated fWAR.

 

It does, but that whole ideal makes it tough to say he was better for the Yankees. It's like saying Mariano Rivera was better for the Yankees than Pedro was for the Red Sox...