Who should the Sox have play CF on opening day?

[jad]

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2021/03/05/red-sox-patriots-jackie-bradley-jr-belichick-versatility?fbclid=IwAR2GaVXGE2Qd6KmbQ9Ue_R8IBtOeyp2AIokOYY5mRA8V6Bi5TlKO4xPe1bc

 

Nice. What the article only implies, but doesn't say directly, is 'becoming Bill Belichick' might not be a great thing if you don't happen to have Tom Brady.

[Bellhorn04]

I read the comments section in the Globe story about JBJ leaving the team. It was a mixed reaction to say the least. There were a lot of people calling him a lousy hitter and an overrated player.

[jacksonianmarch]

JBJ had to go. It was the smart play. JBJ is entering the down phase of a player with his skill set. He's a defense first, good baserunner, below average hitter who made this contract due to his glovework. It is an absolute certainty that his defense drops as he ages and CF is one of the most competitive defensive positions there is. The Brewers are doing him a favor moving him to RF. In RF, he very well may vie with Betts to win a GG and really pump up his value. But his days as a plus CFer were numbered and the sox werent going to have him go to a COF spot if they kept him around

[moonslav59]

Not trying to duck that. I just have never felt going into a new season that the majority of my favorite players are gone. Probably one reason for that is that in pre-sports board days, I never bothered to think about the team during the off-season, and by spring, I would say "Oh look. A new player." I never sensed that four or five guys were suddenly gone. Nor did I hear open talk about dumping players and salaries or shipping guys out when their contracts came up. (I admit that many players I liked were dumped (obviously one's 'favorite' players are not to be confused with 'most skilled' players): Nomar, then Cabrera, B. Holt, Lester, Manny; I liked Hanley too.) But I never looked out and said 'Holy crap-- a brand new outfield!'

 

1. We didn't lose the whole OF overnight. It took two seasons.

2. We often lost 4-5 star players within a 1-2 year span, and we often lost much more over a 3 year span (sometimes near total roster make-over in 3-4 years).

3. I remember the "holy crap- a brand new rotation," which was followed up by a ring not long afterwards.

 

My point was that our teams have been in near constant flux for two decades and with fantastic success. I felt you were saying this turnover is something new and not good.

[moonslav59]

JBJ had to go. It was the smart play. JBJ is entering the down phase of a player with his skill set. He's a defense first, good baserunner, below average hitter who made this contract due to his glovework. It is an absolute certainty that his defense drops as he ages and CF is one of the most competitive defensive positions there is. The Brewers are doing him a favor moving him to RF. In RF, he very well may vie with Betts to win a GG and really pump up his value. But his days as a plus CFer were numbered and the sox werent going to have him go to a COF spot if they kept him around

 

When you say "below average hitter," what are you thinking average is? Average MLB player, starter, center fielder? He's close to average, but I think JBJ was a plus hitter.

 

Yes, he had horrific streaks and some amazing hot streaks. He had some "off years," which were actually very close to "average" among his peers. The guy was a plus hitter, but those frustrating and long slumps burned themselves into many a memory bank. It's fine calling him "average," but I view him as being above average.

 

If you cut him some slack and not count his first 520 PAs, or so, his OPS from 2015-2020 (6 years) was .769 (101 OPS+). That ranks him 22nd among 59 CF'ers from 2015-2020 with 1,000+ PAs. That's close to being top third.

 

His wRC+ was 102 for those 6 years. That ranked him 25th out of top 59 OF'ers in CF.

 

[TylerD]

JBJ. Don’t be silly

[mvp 78]

If Franchy isn't on opening day roster:

 

Kiké CF

Renfroe LF

Verdugo RF

 

Or Maybe:

 

Verdugo CF

Renfroe RF

Marwin LF

[moonslav59]

If Franchy isn't on opening day roster:

 

Kiké CF

Renfroe LF

Verdugo RF

 

Or Maybe:

 

Verdugo CF

Renfroe RF

Marwin LF

 

Could we see a hot hitting Chavis in LF?

[mvp 78]

Could we see a hot hitting Chavis in LF?

 

Maybe? Maybe they have him at 2b? Too many moving parts.

[moonslav59]

Maybe? Maybe they have him at 2b? Too many moving parts.

 

It makes more sense to have Chavis at 2B and EHern in CF, but if they really think EHern is the best defensive 2Bman, and they want continuity with Verdugo in CF, then maybe my idea might win out.

[Thunder]

It makes more sense to have Chavis at 2B and EHern in CF, but if they really think EHern is the best defensive 2Bman, and they want continuity with Verdugo in CF, then maybe my idea might win out.

 

Just plays along with the old adage of "If you have 2 {insert position here}, you really have none"

 

It's helpful to have a bunch of versatile guys, but I would rather have 1 good CF than 3 average CFs who can also play 2B. In other words, Verdugo for me. I think Kike is best suited playing 2B

[mvp 78]

Just plays along with the old adage of "If you have 2 {insert position here}, you really have none"

 

It's helpful to have a bunch of versatile guys, but I would rather have 1 good CF than 3 average CFs who can also play 2B. In other words, Verdugo for me. I think Kike is best suited playing 2B

 

The only problem is that you have to worry about matchups, health and other factors that make it good to have redundancy.

[mvp 78]

It makes more sense to have Chavis at 2B and EHern in CF, but if they really think EHern is the best defensive 2Bman, and they want continuity with Verdugo in CF, then maybe my idea might win out.

 

From the sound of it, players are going to be all over the place this year. We'll see if they really do something similar with the pen.

[moonslav59]

Just plays along with the old adage of "If you have 2 {insert position here}, you really have none"

 

It's helpful to have a bunch of versatile guys, but I would rather have 1 good CF than 3 average CFs who can also play 2B. In other words, Verdugo for me. I think Kike is best suited playing 2B

 

I've never been against a good platoon, and since Renfore hits .717 vs RHPs, he's not bad as a FT player, either.

 

I agree, though. CF is not a position you normally want a 3-4 man rotation covering (Cordero, Verdugo, EHern and Duran).

 

I get the feeling, as the season progresses, things will get more and more set, unless the injury bug bites us, or a few key players flounder.

[mvp 78]

I've never been against a good platoon, and since Renfore hits .717 vs RHPs, he's not bad as a FT player, either.

 

I agree, though. CF is not a position you normally want a 3-4 man rotation covering (Cordero, Verdugo, EHern and Duran).

 

I get the feeling, as the season progresses, things will get more and more set, unless the injury bug bites us, or a few key players flounder.

 

If Duran comes up, that rotation is going to get a lot smaller.

[moonslav59]

If Duran comes up, that rotation is going to get a lot smaller.

 

Normally, I'd say, if Duran is up, he's playing, but since AAA starts in May, they may have him on the 26 man roster, until AAA opens, depending on who is on the IL by opening day. (My guess is Cordero will not be ready.)

[mvp 78]

Normally, I'd say, if Duran is up, he's playing, but since AAA starts in May, they may have him on the 26 man roster, until AAA opens, depending on who is on the IL by opening day. (My guess is Cordero will not be ready.)

 

If Duran is up, may as well keep him up. More likely that Santana is on the opening day roster for Cordero insurance. Maybe even Wilson since he's already on the 40 man? If Duran is good enough to be injury replacement, I'd say they stick with him and stop messing around. Same with Downs. Bring him up and DFA Arroyo.

[TylerD]

Bye JBJ hardly recognize this team anymore.

[moonslav59]

If Duran is up, may as well keep him up. More likely that Santana is on the opening day roster for Cordero insurance. Maybe even Wilson since he's already on the 40 man? If Duran is good enough to be injury replacement, I'd say they stick with him and stop messing around. Same with Downs. Bring him up and DFA Arroyo.

 

Unlike some, who look at Duran's age and chances at being a super stud, I'd like to get an extra year of control for him, unless injuries force our hand in an OF with very little, ML ready, organizational depth, I'd like to have him spend enough time in AAA as needed to get that year. (It makes more sense to let him develop more, first, then call him up, but if we have someone on the IL, maybe the hand is forced.)

 

I think we'll try to avoid adding Santana, Munoz and others to the 40 man roster for as long as possible.

 

If Cordero is not ready, we do have Marwin and EHern to play OF, so maybe we just roll the dice and keep Duran in AAA.

 

Wilson is an option, but even as raw as Duran is, I'd take him over Wilson.

 

I like Munoz over Wilson, too, so if we added Munoz or Santana, I'd DFA Wilson not Arroyo. Arroyo is probably our best back-up SS with Arauz. Arroyo can also play 3B.

 

I'm not a big fan of Arroyo, but despite the fact that he is out of options, I think we keep him around for as long as we need to work things out. If he struggles and others look good, then yes we might trade him or DFA.

 

[mvp 78]

Unlike some, who look at Duran's age and chances at being a super stud, I'd like to get an extra year of control for him, unless injuries force our hand in an OF with very little, ML ready, organizational depth, I'd like to have him spend enough time in AAA as needed to get that year. (It makes more sense to let him develop more, first, then call him up, but if we have someone on the IL, maybe the hand is forced.)

 

I think we'll try to avoid adding Santana, Munoz and others to the 40 man roster for as long as possible.

 

If Cordero is not ready, we do have Marwin and EHern to play OF, so maybe we just roll the dice and keep Duran in AAA.

 

Wilson is an option, but even as raw as Duran is, I'd take him over Wilson.

 

I like Munoz over Wilson, too, so if we added Munoz or Santana, I'd DFA Wilson not Arroyo. Arroyo is probably our best back-up SS with Arauz. Arroyo can also play 3B.

 

I'm not a big fan of Arroyo, but despite the fact that he is out of options, I think we keep him around for as long as we need to work things out. If he struggles and others look good, then yes we might trade him or DFA.

 

 

I only mentioned Wilson since he's already on the 40 man.

[moonslav59]

I only mentioned Wilson since he's already on the 40 man.

 

Yes, and sometimes, I wonder why. I guess our lack of OF depth is the reason, but I really think that if we need an OF'er, Munoz and Santana would be added and used before Wilson. I guess keeping him around as long as possible makes sense.

[mvp 78]

Yes, and sometimes, I wonder why. I guess our lack of OF depth is the reason, but I really think that if we need an OF'er, Munoz and Santana would be added and used before Wilson. I guess keeping him around as long as possible makes sense.

 

I'd have Munoz on my opening day roster if I was GM.

[oldtimer]

Yes, and sometimes, I wonder why. I guess our lack of OF depth is the reason, but I really think that if we need an OF'er, Munoz and Santana would be added and used before Wilson. I guess keeping him around as long as possible makes sense.

I don't thing they believe Santana will be ready for a while due to his elbow surgery.

[moonslav59]

I'd have Munoz on my opening day roster if I was GM.

 

He's probably better than Arroyo and Chavis and maybe even Gonzalez, but keeping depth is important.

[Thunder]

If Duran comes up, that rotation is going to get a lot smaller.

 

I'm holding back all my Duran Duran jokes

[mvp 78]

I don't thing they believe Santana will be ready for a while due to his elbow surgery.

 

Didn't know that. Wonder why he still has an MiLB opt out then?

[moonslav59]

Didn't know that. Wonder why he still has an MiLB opt out then?

 

Maybe his due back date is tied to the opt out date.

[notin]

Didn't know that. Wonder why he still has an MiLB opt out then?

 

Not sure, but the original diagnosis had him out for 8 months after surgery, which he had on September 9th. So mid-May return?

[Nick]

If Duran is up, may as well keep him up. More likely that Santana is on the opening day roster for Cordero insurance. Maybe even Wilson since he's already on the 40 man? If Duran is good enough to be injury replacement, I'd say they stick with him and stop messing around. Same with Downs. Bring him up and DFA Arroyo.

 

Yep....Why waste time on low ceiling guy, Arroyo.?

[moonslav59]

Yep....Why waste time on low ceiling guy, Arroyo.?

 

Arroyo can play SS, 3B and 2B. Santana and Munoz are not on the 40 man roster, so they offer decent depth beyond the 40.

 

My guess is that if Arroyo had options or could be DFA'd and retained in the system and Munoz or Santana had to be on the 40 man, their roles would be swapped, right now.

 

Since Santana is not even ready, yet, DFA'ing Arroyo can wait. The day may come, sooner rather than later, that we DFA or trade Arroyo, because we know Munoz and others are better. (Are we sure Cora and Bloom feel like we do?)

 

I even think Arauz has more upside than Arroyo, but keeping depth is usually a good idea. BTW, he's only 25- a month older than Dalbec- and has only 305 MLB PAs, so do we know what his ceiling might be?

 

I'm not sure a great spring from Munoz, and a poor one from Arroyo is enough to force the move for opening day, but my guess is that Arroyo will be on the opening 26 man roster or the IL (phantom or otherwise.)

Edited March 8, 2021 by moonslav59