Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I can easily afford a Lamborghini, but I am so happy with the mileage I get on my Chevy Aveo. The kids can complain all they want , but I'm satisfied.

 

Sure, that Lambo may be speedy now, but don't stats show that all two-seaters break down over time, compared to something built for longevity... like a Humvee or, what, a Panzer tank?

[dgalehouse]

Sure, that Lambo may be speedy now, but don't stats show that all two-seaters break down over time, compared to something built for longevity... like a Humvee or, what, a Panzer tank?

 

I don't know about that. My friend Brian C . bought himself a beautiful Humvee , and it's in the shop every time he turns around.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie is hitting .247 as of right now. Old Schoolers can't be too excited about that.

[Nick]

Very true. I couldn't just let that post by Nick slide, though LOL

 

The trade had nothing to do with Betts free agency signing. So if Betts had signed with the Cubs, his WAR with Cubs would have to be factored in for evaluating the trade between the Sox and the Dodgers?

 

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

How would you evaluate the E Rod/Miller trade?

Edited July 4, 2021 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

The trade had nothing to do with Betts free agency signing. So if Betts had signed with the Cubs, his WAR with Cubs would have to be factored in for evaluating the trade between the Sox and the Dodgers?

 

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

Trading Betts to the Dodgers gave them the opportunity to extend him before he reached free agency, and took that same opportunity away from us. You can't leave that out of the equation.

[oldtimer]

Trading Betts to the Dodgers gave them the opportunity to extend him before he reached free agency, and took that same opportunity away from us. You can't leave that out of the equation.

 

Frankly I am glad that we don't have that albatross of a contract holding us back now and in the future. Bloom has the flexibility to do some good things with the money. Devers will need to be extended and Boom will have the resources to add quality talent.

[Larry Cook]

Sure, that Lambo may be speedy now, but don't stats show that all two-seaters break down over time, compared to something built for longevity... like a Humvee or, what, a Panzer tank?

 

The Bugatti veyron is really fast, but I would never drive my kids to school in it!

[notin]

Trading Betts to the Dodgers gave them the opportunity to extend him before he reached free agency, and took that same opportunity away from us. You can't leave that out of the equation.

 

One could argue that the Sox never really had the same opportunity to extend Betts…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One could argue that the Sox never really had the same opportunity to extend Betts…

 

... or counter that the Sox offered him 300 million opportunities to sign an extension (which we all know was at least 50 million opps short). When the Dodgers visited the White House last week, no one corrected Biden, after the Prez said, "Mookie left Boston."

 

note to Bellhorn: I'm old school and still appreciate the concept of batting average as one form of offensive evaluation. I'm also on board with OPS (though a walk isn't usually as good as a hit) and WAR. Just wondering: did .247 Mookie get selected for the NL All-Star roster for his overall performance this season or because the MLB needs his name/face recognition to promote its product?

[mvp 78]

One could argue that the Sox never really had the same opportunity to extend Betts…

 

No, one couldn’t.

[redsoxrules]

Question, who picks all star reserves? Is it Dave Roberts or is he not involved?

[Bellhorn04]

One could argue that the Sox never really had the same opportunity to extend Betts…

 

That's a rabbit hole argument, of course. If we stick to facts, the statement is not in dispute.

[Hugh2]

One could argue that the Sox never really had the same opportunity to extend Betts…

 

I believe I heard this on the BA podcast months ago but there were some rumblings that Mookie Betts didn’t want to resign here and was set on reaching FA. So I think that’s a fair argument

[Bellhorn04]

I believe I heard this on the BA podcast months ago but there were some rumblings that Mookie Betts didn’t want to resign here and was set on reaching FA. So I think that’s a fair argument

 

On the other hand, we also have Mookie saying he came very close to accepting an extension offer for $200 million the Red Sox made a few years earlier.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Question, who picks all star reserves? Is it Dave Roberts or is he not involved?

 

It's a good question. Back in the day, the manager and coaches (usually other managers he named) used to pick the pitching staff and reserves. But then All-Star rosters started adding spots for "honorary" players -- stars on the verge of retirement... but no longer starring. The MLB office had to have a say in those selections.

[moonslav59]

On the other hand, we also have Mookie saying he came very close to accepting an extension offer for $200 million the Red Sox made a few years earlier.

 

Maybe he'd have taken $220M.

[mvp 78]

Maybe he'd have taken $220M.

 

Sox are not good negotiators it seems like.

[moonslav59]

Sox are not good negotiators it seems like.

 

They have a pretty good record with their own players reaching or nearly reaching free agency, setting a value and sticking to it.

 

Sure, some like Beltre &Lester look like misses, but overall, we have let the right players walk.

 

The jury is still out on Betts, and the return haul and contractual savings will be part of the overall grade given to the trade.

 

The whole extension and what if we extended aspect of the trade will always be highly speculative, but the reality is, we traded a shortened season of Bettsfor massive budget space, Verdugo, Downs and Wong. That really should be all that the trade grade is based on, IMO.

[mvp 78]

Jury is back! Letting Mookie go was DUMB!

[Bellhorn04]

The whole extension and what if we extended aspect of the trade will always be highly speculative, but the reality is, we traded a shortened season of Bettsfor massive budget space, Verdugo, Downs and Wong. That really should be all that the trade grade is based on, IMO.

 

You have to break it down into two components:

 

1) The decision to trade him, which I believe was primarily an ownership decision, and which encompassed the risk of losing him forever.

2) The execution of the trade by Bloom.

 

It's the first part that's up for debate.

 

With the second part, it's hard to find any fault at all.

[Bellhorn04]

The whole extension and what if we extended aspect of the trade will always be highly speculative, but the reality is, we traded a shortened season of Bettsfor massive budget space, Verdugo, Downs and Wong. That really should be all that the trade grade is based on, IMO.

 

You're mixing and matching here. If it was only a 'shortened season of Betts' that we traded, then the total amount they saved was about $10 million, which is not 'massive budget space'.

 

If you're talking about the savings for 2021 and beyond, then you have to factor in the loss of Betts's production for those years.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[redsoxrules]

Jury is back! Letting Mookie go was DUMB!

 

You can't be serious

[notin]

You can't be serious

 

 

That’s actually true. He can’t be serious. He’s physically incapable of it…

[mvp 78]

That’s actually true. He can’t be serious. He’s physically incapable of it…

 

How rude.

[moonslav59]

You're mixing and matching here. If it was only a 'shortened season of Betts' that we traded, then the total amount they saved was about $10 million, which is not 'massive budget space'.

 

If you're talking about the savings for 2021 and beyond, then you have to factor in the loss of Betts's production for those years.

 

Of course that is part of the equation, if we were able to extend him, but that is unknown.

 

Yes, the massive savings only occurs,ifwe assume we extended him, so I did mix and match. Good point.

[notin]

How rude.

 

You so funny

[Hugh2]

On the other hand, we also have Mookie saying he came very close to accepting an extension offer for $200 million the Red Sox made a few years earlier.

 

That's very interesting, I wonder what the details were?

 

I'd imagine the contract would have been filled with opt-outs, like Bogaerts is. And, at the end of the day, he DIDN'T accept that extension.

[Hugh2]

Maybe he'd have taken $220M.

 

Maybe at an earlier date he would have taken money like that, probably less years and with opt-outs, but it likely would have retained him here for maybe one more year. By the time they traded him he was a year away from FA, not getting arb years bought out, I'd expect the dollar value needed to retain Mookie is equivalent to what he signed with LA.

[Bellhorn04]

That's very interesting, I wonder what the details were?

 

I'd imagine the contract would have been filled with opt-outs, like Bogaerts is. And, at the end of the day, he DIDN'T accept that extension.

 

I think it was a straight 8 year/200 million offer. My guess is it was after the 2016 season.

 

The slightly humorous aspect was that Mookie said his mother was the one who kind of talked him out of signing it, telling him not to act impulsively, that sort of thing.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe at an earlier date he would have taken money like that, probably less years and with opt-outs, but it likely would have retained him here for maybe one more year. By the time they traded him he was a year away from FA, not getting arb years bought out, I'd expect the dollar value needed to retain Mookie is equivalent to what he signed with LA.

 

The eye-catching thing about the deal he signed with LA was that the deferred money *apparently* brought the present value all the way done to about 306.5 million, and an AAV of *only* 25.55 million. Which meant it was not much more than the Red Sox alleged offer of 300/10 - actually lower, for tax purposes.

 

Spotrac does show the AAV at 25.55 million. For reasons unknown, Cot's Contracts shows it as 30.42 million, with no present value adjustment.