Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I was not being clear ... if someone wants to trace Betts' unique talent back towards Yaz or Williams I am cool with it. But I do agree with you - Betts is a talent the Red Sox have very rarely, if ever, had. Honestly for a comp to Betts the Red Sox have ever had, you probably have to go to Reggie Smith if Fred Lynn does not do it for you.

 

Smith may be a better comp. Reggie had 64.6 career bWAR; Mookie at age 28 will pass Lynn's 50.2 career bWAR by the end of the summer.

 

Reggie wasn't quite as spectacular as Freddie in Beantown, but was also a Gold Glove All-Star outfielder who received AL MVP votes in four straight years for the Sox.

 

In baseball-reference's Similarity Scores ratings, the most Similar Batter in baseball history to Reggie Smith is... Fred Lynn.

[Bellhorn04]

Pretty impressive list of players traded away by the Red Sox since the early 70's.

 

Betts

Bagwell

Lynn

Cooper

Smith

[notin]

Which of Yaz or Ted were 5 tool guys?

 

And why is “5 tool guys” so important?

 

I’d take Tony Gwynn over Shaun Green every opportunity…

[notin]

Pretty impressive list of players traded away by the Red Sox since the early 70's.

 

Betts

Bagwell

Lynn

Cooper

Smith

 

Impressive players, but I think a lot of teams can find 5 equally impressive players dealt away in a 50 year stretch…

[Bellhorn04]

Impressive players, but I think a lot of teams can find 5 equally impressive players dealt away in a 50 year stretch…

 

I'll challenge that one. And I don't think we should include players that were traded by teams that legit couldn't afford to keep them.

[mvp 78]

I was not being clear ... if someone wants to trace Betts' unique talent back towards Yaz or Williams I am cool with it. But I do agree with you - Betts is a talent the Red Sox have very rarely, if ever, had. Honestly for a comp to Betts the Red Sox have ever had, you probably have to go to Reggie Smith if Fred Lynn does not do it for you.

 

He’s better than Lynn. I think there are other guys who had peaks better than that.

[mvp 78]

And why is “5 tool guys” so important?

 

I’d take Tony Gwynn over Shaun Green every opportunity…

 

Yup.

[dgalehouse]

Mookie is a future Hall of Famer. Verdugo is not. Downs may or may not ever amount to anything. But we did about as well as we could have hoped in that trade. Mookie is happy. The Dodgers are happy . And some Sox fans are happy. Some are not. Time to move on.

[notin]

I'll challenge that one. And I don't think we should include players that were traded by teams that legit couldn't afford to keep them.

 

Well, “afford” in baseball often means “doesn’t want to pay.” ..

[Bellhorn04]

Well, “afford” in baseball often means “doesn’t want to pay.” ..

 

I'm talking about teams with legit small revenues and payrolls.

 

Anyway, the first step would be to find any team who traded 5 players of that caliber in their prime or pre-prime. I have my doubts there are any.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie is a future Hall of Famer. Verdugo is not. Downs may or may not ever amount to anything. But we did about as well as we could have hoped in that trade. Mookie is happy. The Dodgers are happy . And some Sox fans are happy. Some are not. Time to move on.

 

Says the man called Denny Galehouse LOL

[dgalehouse]

Says the man called Denny Galehouse LOL

 

Do as I say , not as I do.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And why is “5 tool guys” so important?

 

 

It may be why Bloom drafted Marcelo Mayer before he took Niko Kavadas...

[Bellhorn04]

It may be why Bloom drafted Marcelo Mayer before he took Niko Kavadas...

 

But isn't every single one of Mayer's tools better than Kavadas's?

 

If you want to make an absurd comparison, here's one: Mookie vs. Ted. Ted would probably have fine being a DH, based on the stories about his attitude toward fielding.

[Bellhorn04]

Pretty impressive list of players traded away by the Red Sox since the early 70's.

 

Betts

Bagwell

Lynn

Cooper

Smith

 

And I forgot Nomar.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But isn't every single one of Mayer's tools better than Kavadas's?

 

If you want to make an absurd comparison, here's one: Mookie vs. Ted. Ted would probably have fine being a DH, based on the stories about his attitude toward fielding.

 

Mayer hit 14 home runs in his senior year of high school. Kavadas hit 22 HRs to break Notre Dame's single season record. That's a D1 college, where he was first-team All American.

[Hugh2]

Mayer hit 14 home runs in his senior year of high school. Kavadas hit 22 HRs to break Notre Dame's single season record. That's a D1 college, where he was first-team All American.

 

I may have missed something in here as I haven't read the thread in a few days but there's zero comparisons here. All 31 other teams passed on Kavadas in the top 10 rounds. Mayer was taken over him because he was the better prospect.

[Bellhorn04]

I may have missed something in here as I haven't read the thread in a few days but there's zero comparisons here. All 31 other teams passed on Kavadas in the top 10 rounds. Mayer was taken over him because he was the better prospect.

 

The latest theme in this thread is 'what's the big deal about 5 tool players?'

[Hugh2]

The latest theme in this thread is 'what's the big deal about 5 tool players?'

 

I would think it would be self-explanatory.

[Bellhorn04]

I would think it would be self-explanatory.

 

It was notin that first asked that question. I think what he was getting at was, all that really matters is total value. Hence my silly little 'Mookie vs. Ted' scenario.

[Hugh2]

It was notin that first asked that question. I think what he was getting at was, all that really matters is total value. Hence my silly little 'Mookie vs. Ted' scenario.

 

Oh I get that, I suppose I quoted the wrong guy. I didn't really get the comparing Kavadas to Mayer and comparing how many HR's a high school senior hit vs. a college senior.

[mvp 78]

Mayer hit 14 home runs in his senior year of high school. Kavadas hit 22 HRs to break Notre Dame's single season record. That's a D1 college, where he was first-team All American.

 

Kavadas also is 4 years older than Mayer and outweighs him by well over 50 lbs. Kavadas is basically a softball player that only hits bombs.

[S5Dewey]

Bell said....

If you want to make an absurd comparison, here's one: Mookie vs. Ted. Ted would probably have fine being a DH, based on the stories about his attitude toward fielding.

 

Blasphemy!

 

It's a good indication of how the game has changed since Williams' time. It tales no special skills to play LF in Fenway - one doesn't have to have good speed or a great arm. Yes, it's tricky in its own way but it's things that can be learned. Williams wasn't a 5-tool player. He ​earned his reputation mostly with his bat.

 

I would posit that if the Sox had been able to put a 3-tool defensive player in the OF with Piersall and Jensen and been able to use Williams as a full-time DH those teams of the mid-50's would have been even better.

[mvp 78]

Bell said....

If you want to make an absurd comparison, here's one: Mookie vs. Ted. Ted would probably have fine being a DH, based on the stories about his attitude toward fielding.

 

Blasphemy!

 

It's a good indication of how the game has changed since Williams' time. It tales no special skills to play LF in Fenway - one doesn't have to have good speed or a great arm. Yes, it's tricky in its own way but it's things that can be learned. Williams wasn't a 5-tool player. He ​earned his reputation mostly with his bat.

 

I would posit that if the Sox had been able to put a 3-tool defensive player in the OF with Piersall and Jensen and been able to use Williams as a full-time DH those teams of the mid-50's would have been even better.

 

If Manny played DH in BOS, we would have lost out on so many great memories. That's my only argument against the DH.

[moonslav59]

Old man Mookie is out with a nagging hip injury.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kavadas also is 4 years older than Mayer and outweighs him by well over 50 lbs. Kavadas is basically a softball player that only hits bombs.

 

That was the whole point; he got drafted because he does only one thing well. Mayer projects as a five-tool guy. Who has the better potential... even as a trade chip in a few years?

[notin]

And I forgot Nomar.

 

The Marlins haven’t even been around 50 years and they’ve developed and traded away

 

Miguel Cabrera

Josh Beckett

Giancarlo Stanton

Christian Yelich

 

I think a lot of teams could have equally impressive lists over a 50 year stretch

 

(You also left out Schilling.)

[moonslav59]

The Marlins haven’t even been around 50 years and they’ve developed and traded away

 

Miguel Cabrera

Josh Beckett

Giancarlo Stanton

Christian Yelich

 

I think a lot of teams could have equally impressive lists over a 50 year stretch

 

(You also left out Schilling.)

 

Jose Fernandez

Dontrelle Willis

Luis Castillo

 

[Bellhorn04]

The Marlins haven’t even been around 50 years and they’ve developed and traded away

 

Miguel Cabrera

Josh Beckett

Giancarlo Stanton

Christian Yelich

 

I think a lot of teams could have equally impressive lists over a 50 year stretch

 

(You also left out Schilling.)

 

The Marlins are one of the lowest revenue teams though.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Pure trivia.

[Larry Cook]

Old man Mookie is out with a nagging hip injury.

 

I sense this will be a theme over the next decade! Glad the dodgers have cash to burn!