2020 Trade Deadline

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know if Barnes will be next, because he'll be the guy the Sox get the best return for. He's not a free agent like Workman, throws 100 and has shown -- if not overworked -- he can get good hitters out in pressure situations.

 

Boston got guys with potential for Workman and Hembree, but should be able to get someone with good potential for Barnes. Let the bidding begin.

 

Any chance they keep Barnes?

[mvp 78]

ERA is dumb. Also, a 4 ERA is actually good in this day and age.

[mvp 78]

Any chance they keep Barnes?

 

25% they keep him.

[notin]

ERA is dumb. Also, a 4 ERA is actually good in this day and age.

 

Agreed. ERA isn’t a measure of pitching ability as much as it is a measure of pitching and defense.

 

The one advantage to ERA is everyone understands it....

[notin]

25% they keep him.

 

 

There is no rush, as he does have the additional year of control. But a deal now would yield a better return for that same reason...

[Kimmi]

I am hearing some people criticizing this move, saying that we got crap in return for 2 pretty good relievers. IMO, these people are failing to realize or understand a few things.

 

1. What were they expecting to get back in return for Workman and Hembree, one of whom is a free agent at the end of the year, the other of whom is a free agent after next year? A Shane Bieber type pitcher was not walking through our door. Workman might be good, but he is not going to repeat last year's performance. Hembree is good, and often doesn't get the credit he deserves, but as a good reliever with 1 year of control, his value isn't that high. In his best season, he was worth 0.5 fWAR.

 

2. By all accounts, Pivetta has very good stuff but just hasn't been able to get the results. This is the type of pitcher who seems to be right up Bloom's alley. I think Bloom feels like he can get the results out of Pivetta that have been lacking so far. I'm not talking about Pivetta being an ace, but hopefully he'll be a solid middle of the rotation pitcher. Ditto Seabold.

 

3. The number of cost-controlled years. That alone makes this trade a good value. We are getting a combined 9-10 years of control in return for 1 year of control.

 

Bloom did well in getting two pitchers who can help us next year and in the future. This trade is not a steal, by any means. But it is a very good, solid trade.

[Kimmi]

ERA is dumb. Also, a 4 ERA is actually good in this day and age.

 

It's not dumb, per se. To judge by ERA alone is dumb.

[Bellhorn04]

Kimmi is back! It's a good day in the forum.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi is back! It's a good day in the forum.

 

I missed you guys! It's nice to have some actual baseball to talk about.

[illinoisredsox]

Like Hembree’s 5.59 ERA?

 

ERA is not a good stat for relievers. Hembree’s year so far is a perfect illustration of that. That ERA is primarily the product of his last outing against the Phillies.

 

He pitched in 11 games this year for the Sox and allowed 6 runs in 9 2/3 innings. In 8 of those outings, he was unscored on; he gave up 1 run in each of 2 others and 4 in the Philadelphia game. His ERA going into that last game was 1.86. I will take a middle reliever who does the job 70% of the time every time. Note I said middle reliever.

 

Now to be fair, I don’t know about inherited runners but I think most times he’s come in at the start of innings.

Edited August 22, 2020 by illinoisredsox

[TylerD]

It sucks to see workman go, Having a true decent closer in this league is not an easy thing. He is a free agent and we are going absolutely nowhere, so I get it. But it still sucks to see a decent player like that goal, he was the one decent thing about this team outside of the offence has been pretty decent as well

[Bellhorn04]

It sucks to see workman go, Having a true decent closer in this league is not an easy thing. He is a free agent and we are going absolutely nowhere, so I get it. But it still sucks to see a decent player like that goal, he was the one decent thing about this team outside of the offence has been pretty decent as well

 

You think a lot like I do. Maybe it's a Canadian thing.

[dgalehouse]

I missed you guys! It's nice to have some actual baseball to talk about.

 

Welcome back , Kimmi.

[oldtimer]

Now what does Bloom follow-up with. I doubt we are done. National League contenders may be looking for a designated hitter. JD is a hard guy to trade, due to his contract and the opt out. Moreland is less costly and is very hot right now, plus he can play first. I really would hate to see either traded but if it came down to a choice, who would you trade and why?

[dgalehouse]

When a trade happens , folks will give their opinion as to whether it was a good or bad deal . The funny thing is , no matter whether it works out well or not , they won't change that opinion. They will insist they were right all along . Human nature .

[Swiharts Ghost]

Hembree had very little value. Workman has been good, but he has not been great.

 

My guess is, we got about the best we could. I'd hoped for more, but this might work out.

 

It makes us slightly better for 2021 and beyond, and we don't have Hembree's last arb to pay.

 

Now, who's next?

 

Moreland?

Eovaldi?

Pillar?

JBJ with cash?

Vaz?

Barnes?

 

Moon A700 Notin is Vaz worthy of one of the black sheep Cleveland pitchers ? I know these two guys have really soured some and it was a total dick move by both ....they are talented and can really help us going forward .Clevinger for Vaz seems light on our part but Vaz for Plesac seems like a 1 for 1 .I don’t love Plesac am I missing something with him ? Clevinger is the Move .I would trade Vaz and pillar plus cash would they accept this ? .

[Behindenemylines]

It sucks to see workman go, Having a true decent closer in this league is not an easy thing. He is a free agent and we are going absolutely nowhere, so I get it. But it still sucks to see a decent player like that goal, he was the one decent thing about this team outside of the offence has been pretty decent as well

 

Workman a FA at the end of the season and

could start to become expensive for a rebuilding team. With a rebuild starting there is no need for an expensive closer. Each of the four championship teams had a different closer, so when the Sox are ready to contend then there can invest in one if one doesn’t come threw the system. SP was needed, and the hope is they can catch some luck from what they got back from the Phillies.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When a trade happens , folks will give their opinion as to whether it was a good or bad deal . The funny thing is , no matter whether it works out well or not , they won't change that opinion. They will insist they were right all along . Human nature .

 

There has got to be some Nomar fans or some kid with a stuffed Heathcliff cat who changed their minds after October '04.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's not dumb, per se. To judge by ERA alone is dumb.

 

It's just another tool to help evaluate players. We were always told we can't compare eras, and then analytics developed WAR, which says we can compare players from different eras. We can even compare WAR between the two main sources with different formulas... although each says WAR is just an estimate, which means feel free to manipulate the data in whatever way best fits the agenda.

[notin]

ERA is not a good stat for relievers. Hembree’s year so far is a perfect illustration of that. That ERA is primarily the product of his last outing against the Phillies.

 

He pitched in 11 games this year for the Sox and allowed 6 runs in 9 2/3 innings. In 8 of those outings, he was unscored on; he gave up 1 run in each of 2 others and 4 in the Philadelphia game. His ERA going into that last game was 1.86. I will take a middle reliever who does the job 70% of the time every time. Note I said middle reliever.

 

Now to be fair, I don’t know about inherited runners but I think most times he’s come in at the start of innings.

 

Yes I know all that. But I was not the one condemning a pitcher based on ERA...

[Larry Cook]

Who will be next to go? Moreland?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Who will be next to go? Moreland?

 

I'm guessing Pillar, because he's cheaper and better than Bradley this summer. Whether he's starting or finishing, Pillar would be a good piece on a good club in contention. I think it depends on when either Beni is able to play again or when the Sox deem Duran ready to come up for a taste of the last 20 or so games.

 

Bloom can't just throw Lin or Peraza out there and save face with the faceless cardboard.

[Kimmi]

It sucks to see workman go, Having a true decent closer in this league is not an easy thing. He is a free agent and we are going absolutely nowhere, so I get it. But it still sucks to see a decent player like that goal, he was the one decent thing about this team outside of the offence has been pretty decent as well

 

It does stink to see both Workman and Hembree go. I thought it was really cool that they both waited until after the game to leave so that they could say goodbye to their teammates.

 

I appreciate what they both did in helping the Red Sox win WS Championships, and I wish them both the best in Philly.

[Kimmi]

Welcome back , Kimmi.

 

Thank you. ❤️

[Kimmi]

Now what does Bloom follow-up with. I doubt we are done. National League contenders may be looking for a designated hitter. JD is a hard guy to trade, due to his contract and the opt out. Moreland is less costly and is very hot right now, plus he can play first. I really would hate to see either traded but if it came down to a choice, who would you trade and why?

 

I also very much doubt Bloom is done. It will be hard for me to see some of our players get traded, but I understand it's a necessary thing to do.

[Kimmi]

It's just another tool to help evaluate players. We were always told we can't compare eras, and then analytics developed WAR, which says we can compare players from different eras. We can even compare WAR between the two main sources with different formulas... although each says WAR is just an estimate, which means feel free to manipulate the data in whatever way best fits the agenda.

 

If I had to pick one metric by which to evaluate a player, it would definitely be WAR. Not all stats are created equal. IMO, there are several single stats better than ERA.

[Kimmi]

I don't know if it's been discussed, but I'm going back and forth on trading Perez. We have a team option for him for $6.3 mil (or something thereabout) for next year, which is a very good price, especially considering it's only for one year. But, can we afford to trade away one of our starting pitchers in an already too thin rotation?

 

I know some of you think we can't contend in 2021. But for those of us hoping to field a competitive team, it's hard to trade him.

 

Of course, it all depends on the return.

[notin]

Moon A700 Notin is Vaz worthy of one of the black sheep Cleveland pitchers ? I know these two guys have really soured some and it was a total dick move by both ....they are talented and can really help us going forward .Clevinger for Vaz seems light on our part but Vaz for Plesac seems like a 1 for 1 .I don’t love Plesac am I missing something with him ? Clevinger is the Move .I would trade Vaz and pillar plus cash would they accept this ? .

 

Going to say No. But only Cleveland’s GM knows the answer.

 

Baseballtradevalues.com does say Vazquez is an overpay for Plesac, but not enough for Clevinger. Couldn’t tell you if that was true or not, but I suspect he’s not enough for either due to his shorter contract...

[notin]

I don't know if it's been discussed, but I'm going back and forth on trading Perez. We have a team option for him for $6.3 mil (or something thereabout) for next year, which is a very good price, especially considering it's only for one year. But, can we afford to trade away one of our starting pitchers in an already too thin rotation?

 

I know some of you think we can't contend in 2021. But for those of us hoping to field a competitive team, it's hard to trade him.

 

Of course, it all depends on the return.

 

I would actually like to see Perez moved. If everyone is healthy, this rotation is way too left-handed...

[oldtimer]

I don't know if it's been discussed, but I'm going back and forth on trading Perez. We have a team option for him for $6.3 mil (or something thereabout) for next year, which is a very good price, especially considering it's only for one year. But, can we afford to trade away one of our starting pitchers in an already too thin rotation?

 

I know some of you think we can't contend in 2021. But for those of us hoping to field a competitive team, it's hard to trade him.

 

Of course, it all depends on the return.

 

My hope is that we make gradual improvements to the team while trying to field at least a competitive team in 2021. I doubt if we can go into competitive for a pennant until 2022 or 2023. To do that I would keep Perez and Moreland as two fairly reasonably priced guys who can contribute. Moon has done a great job of identifying the core guys and I would add these two to the list.