A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[Kimmi]

There, there...

 

It just boggles my mind. Really.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Good for the Dodgers for going hard after Mookie, but at the same time, I really think they needlessly cost themselves a lot of money.

 

Was any other team going to offer close to that in free agency this offseason? Would Mookie have accepted a lesser deal given the current circumstances? I'm not talking about a low ball deal, but certainly a 10 year deal rather than 12 years.

 

We'll never know, but I'm thinking 'No' and 'Yes'.

 

Mookie's the best player on the best team in baseball. He's also a voice of the MLB now, narrating the excellent tribute on Jackie Robinson Day. Hopefully, Boston can find a leader on and off the field like that someday, someone fans can love to root for, and teammates can be inspired by, as he rallies them to glory.

[notin]

Mookie's the best player on the best team in baseball. He's also a voice of the MLB now, narrating the excellent tribute on Jackie Robinson Day. Hopefully, Boston can find a leader on and off the field like that someday, someone fans can love to root for, and teammates can be inspired by, as he rallies them to glory.

 

... and it sounds like Mookie was never coming back to Boston anyway.

[Kimmi]

Mookie's the best player on the best team in baseball. He's also a voice of the MLB now, narrating the excellent tribute on Jackie Robinson Day. Hopefully, Boston can find a leader on and off the field like that someday, someone fans can love to root for, and teammates can be inspired by, as he rallies them to glory.

 

He's still not worth $365 million @ 12 years.

 

When you sign a player like Mookie to 'put the team over the top', that player will certainly help a great deal during the regular season, in other words, help to get the team to the postseason. However, once in the postseason, that one player is not going to put the team over the top and ensure a championship. The playoffs are too much of a crapshoot.

 

So, you sign players to get you to the postseason, not to win in the postseason. The Dodgers won 106 games last year. They were getting to the postseason with or without Mookie.

 

Will the Dodgers win it all this year? It's certainly possible. But it's just as possible that they would win it all this year without Mookie. I know that if the Dodgers do win the Series this year, it will be credited to the addition of Mookie, but in reality, that would not be the case.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He's still not worth $365 million @ 12 years.

 

When you sign a player like Mookie to 'put the team over the top', that player will certainly help a great deal during the regular season, in other words, help to get the team to the postseason. However, once in the postseason, that one player is not going to put the team over the top and ensure a championship. The playoffs are too much of a crapshoot.

 

So, you sign players to get you to the postseason, not to win in the postseason. The Dodgers won 106 games last year. They were getting to the postseason with or without Mookie.

 

Will the Dodgers win it all this year? It's certainly possible. But it's just as possible that they would win it all this year without Mookie. I know that if the Dodgers do win the Series this year, it will be credited to the addition of Mookie, but in reality, that would not be the case.

 

He's absolutely worth it to the Dodgers if they finally win the World Series. Like you said, Betts will be considered the last piece to get them to promised land, and none of us -- even those armed with data -- will be able to prove he wasn't. A player's value to a club in the dugout, clubhouse and airplanes can't be quantified, and even if such settings are compromised this summer, there's also a confidence factor that is underrated when a new star joins a club and takes the pressure off of teammates.

 

History is rife with acquired newcomers who put teams over the top, but it's usually pitchers -- Verlander last decade, Lidge in the 00s, Maddux in the 90s, Willie Hernandez in the 80s. But there are also examples of superstar regulars turning good teams into great teams: Joe Morgan in the 70s, Frank Robinson in the 60s. Over half those guys are Hall of Famers (though I'm sure there are plenty of moves that have backfired, too).

[Bellhorn04]

We won't know for a long time whether this deal was a good one for the Dodgers or not.

[jad]

We won't know for a long time whether this deal was a good one for the Dodgers or not.

 

You're right. But during that long long time, Dodger fans will be watching the greatest player in the league, while we will be rejoicing about being under the salary cap.

[dgalehouse]

You can see it on e-bay all the time . If people really want something , they are willing to pay more than it is realistically worth . Sometimes money is no object. And MLB owners certainly have plenty of it . Sometimes they will end up rueing it , sometimes they won't. But it will happen again.

[moonslav59]

Don't look, now, but the Marlins and White Sox are showing that turn-arounds can happen more quickly than many of us imagine.

[mvp 78]

Don't look, now, but the Marlins and White Sox are showing that turn-arounds can happen more quickly than many of us imagine.

 

This White Sox turnaround is NOT fast.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox have won 2 WS since the last time the White Sox were above .500.

 

Also, many people anticipated the White Sox to make a jump this year.

[moonslav59]

This White Sox turnaround is NOT fast.

 

True. My wording was off.

 

I will say, not many expected them to compete this year, especially the Marlins.

 

They also have had many years of great draft picks and larger signing pools.

[mvp 78]

True. My wording was off.

 

I will say, not many expected them to compete this year, especially the Marlins.

 

They also have had many years of great draft picks and larger signing pools.

The Marlins are a much bigger surprise than the White Sox IMO.

[Northern Star]

The Marlins are a much bigger surprise than the White Sox IMO.

 

Wait...the Marlins are still in operation?

[Northern Star]

I'm at the point where I don't watch games on tv, I go to one game per season on average, what I spend on merchandise is very small, unless you count buying books on baseball. Why have I got to this stage? Largely the money. I don't know why it bothers me, but the stupid contracts turn me off. I can't relate to these players, and a fair percentage of them probably give zero f***s about the working people paying their wages. So I find it hard to cheer for the players instead of just the team.

 

Not to mention the miniscule percentage of game time that involves actual action.

[jad]

So the RS organization is supposed to model itself after the Marlins?

[Noles_1335]

Is there no better options than recalling freaking Mazza from the training site... hell at this rate can we just tank for a better pick??

[Kimmi]

He's absolutely worth it to the Dodgers if they finally win the World Series. Like you said, Betts will be considered the last piece to get them to promised land, and none of us -- even those armed with data -- will be able to prove he wasn't. A player's value to a club in the dugout, clubhouse and airplanes can't be quantified, and even if such settings are compromised this summer, there's also a confidence factor that is underrated when a new star joins a club and takes the pressure off of teammates.

 

History is rife with acquired newcomers who put teams over the top, but it's usually pitchers -- Verlander last decade, Lidge in the 00s, Maddux in the 90s, Willie Hernandez in the 80s. But there are also examples of superstar regulars turning good teams into great teams: Joe Morgan in the 70s, Frank Robinson in the 60s. Over half those guys are Hall of Famers (though I'm sure there are plenty of moves that have backfired, too).

 

If the Dodgers finally win the World Series, then I would agree that the Mookie contract will be worth it. But much like our 2018 World Series, I'm thinking the Dodgers have just as good a chance to have won the World Series even if they didn't go all out. They have a good enough team.

 

I agree that there is value to all of that intangible stuff that you mentioned.

 

I don't agree that it was worth signing Mookie to the contract that he received. I'm not sure that I will ever be on board with a 10+ year contract.

[Kimmi]

So the RS organization is supposed to model itself after the Marlins?

 

Remember the good old days when we used to criticize the Yankees for buying their championships?

[Larry Cook]

Time running out for hang’em Chaim to pour gallons of channel numbers 5 on a bunch of turd piles (aka Red Sox players) and then trade them as sweet smelling star players to sucker GM’s around the league.

[Behindenemylines]

We won't know for a long time whether this deal was a good one for the Dodgers or not.

 

Long term contracts of ten or twelve years are good for the first half and then the decline starts. So for the Dodgers it will be how many rings are won in the first six or seven years of it. It all comes back to the Sox not being able to produce their own young starting pitchers. Forces them to make trades (Sale) or sign free agents (Price) and have to pay too much to field a competitive staff. Thus not having enough money to sign Mookie.

[mvp 78]

You're right. But during that long long time, Dodger fans will be watching the greatest player in the league, while we will be rejoicing about being under the salary cap.

 

Dodgers got Trout?

[Kimmi]

Long term contracts of ten or twelve years are good for the first half and then the decline starts. So for the Dodgers it will be how many rings are won in the first six or seven years of it. It all comes back to the Sox not being able to produce their own young starting pitchers. Forces them to make trades (Sale) or sign free agents (Price) and have to pay too much to field a competitive staff. Thus not having enough money to sign Mookie.

 

Mookie is a great player. I can understand fans being upset about the team trading him. Watching him playing so well for the Dodgers is hard to take. I understand that.

 

That said, not giving him a 12 year extension is not about the first half of the contract, it's about the second half. If the Sox had given Mookie that extension, I can guarantee that when the contract becomes a burden, and it will, there would be a lot of criticizing of the length of the contract from the very same people who are in favor of the extension now.

 

It happened recently with Price. I recall most posters here being in favor of the Price signing when it happened, regardless of the contract. People wanted Stanton and his 10 years. People were willing to sign JD for his original demands. Now not so much.

 

We need to keep the long term vision in mind.

[Kimmi]

Dodgers got Trout?

 

If the Dodgers knock the Yankees out of the World Series, then the entire Mookie contract will be worth it for the Dodgers.

 

Note: The Yankees are not getting to the World Series. They might not even get to the playoffs.

[notin]

Dodgers got Trout?

 

 

How about the Dodgers got the best fish-named player ever?

[Bellhorn04]

How about the Dodgers got the best fish-named player ever?

 

Sturgeon?

[oldtimer]

Mookie is a great player. I can understand fans being upset about the team trading him. Watching him playing so well for the Dodgers is hard to take. I understand that.

 

That said, not giving him a 12 year extension is not about the first half of the contract, it's about the second half. If the Sox had given Mookie that extension, I can guarantee that when the contract becomes a burden, and it will, there would be a lot of criticizing of the length of the contract from the very same people who are in favor of the extension now.

 

It happened recently with Price. I recall most posters here being in favor of the Price signing when it happened, regardless of the contract. People wanted Stanton and his 10 years. People were willing to sign JD for his original demands. Now not so much.

 

We need to keep the long term vision in mind.

 

The Mookie and Price trade doesn't even look bad at present, under the circumstances. Verdugo is an above average outfielder at low cost and we have two other high prospects. We would have paid Mookie $30 Mil with our offer of 10 years and would have had the full Price contract at $32 Mil, now reduced to half that. I doubt if Price is worth half his contract going forward.

 

The Workman and Hembree trade for one possible ML pitcher and a high prospect starting pitcher looks like a very good trade for the Sox. We were going nowhere in 2019 and Workman was going into FA next year.

 

It's not easy making beneficial trades and I hope that Bloom makes no giveaway trades. It has to help us or don't make the trade and don't worry about the inevitable criticism by the fan base.

[dgalehouse]

22 short ( long ? ) months ago , the Sox dominated the Dodgers to win the World Series , only one untimely error preventing a sweep . Today , the Dodgers have the best record in baseball . The Sox have the second worst . You can provide all the spin and all the excuses you can think of , but that is the all important bottom line .

[mvp 78]

22 short ( long ? ) months ago , the Sox dominated the Dodgers to win the World Series , only one untimely error preventing a sweep . Today , the Dodgers have the best record in baseball . The Sox have the second worst . You can provide all the spin and all the excuses you can think of , but that is the all important bottom line .

 

Dodgers haven’t won a WS since Thunder was born.

[dgalehouse]

Dodgers haven’t won a WS since Thunder was born.

 

Spin number one . When you don't like the present , talk about the past . But it doesn't change today's bottom line .