A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[Kimmi]

We have thrown in the towel and well we should have with our record,lack of pitching depth and also problems generating runs. Our schedule going forward will pit us against teams that have more capability than we have. We might have won one more against the O's for instance, but for the Workman trade. That was necessary since we weren't going anywhere as configured and need to rebuild both the team and the farm. I would like us to field a somewhat competitive team in 2021. We can do that by keeping our core and bolstering it with trades, smart FA signings and through our better position in the draft. I see no advantage in trading away other low cost options who can help us in 2021 but will be gone afterward.

 

 

You mentioned management in an earlier post. I do think the team is playing in a dispirited manner with the exception of a few who have sufficient drive and pride to keep themselves striving in the face of poor results. We need a more spirited manager and perhaps we need to weed out players who hang their heads. I have no suggestions other than being a baseball man is only part of the picture.

 

You and I are on the same page here Oldtimer. I don't like seeing some of our players get traded, but I acknowledge that it is the right thing to do. I can't see Henry being willing to punt next season. He and Bloom will try to field a competitive team, which means we can't trade away everyone who won't be on the roster after 2021. I'd like to keep Moreland and Perez.

[Kimmi]

He is when you consider he takes at bats away from arauz,

 

That may be the case, but if that is your concern, Holt would also take bats away from Arauz.

[moonslav59]

You and I are on the same page here Oldtimer. I don't like seeing some of our players get traded, but I acknowledge that it is the right thing to do. I can't see Henry being willing to punt next season. He and Bloom will try to field a competitive team, which means we can't trade away everyone who won't be on the roster after 2021. I'd like to keep Moreland and Perez.

 

We can sign Moreland and Perez after 2021.

[moonslav59]

Chavis needs more time at 2b. Peraza is who he is. Arauz will get more development in AAA next year.

 

I don't think Chavis will ever have a chance at being our 2Bman in a championship season.

 

His best shot is as a platoon 1B/DH and back up 2B/3B.

[Kimmi]

We can sign Moreland and Perez after 2021.

 

If the return on either of those players is something we can't pass us, then we should trade them. But we shouldn't trade them just for the sake of trading them. As I said, I believe the team can be competitive in 2021.

[Thunder]

You and I are on the same page here Oldtimer. I don't like seeing some of our players get traded, but I acknowledge that it is the right thing to do. I can't see Henry being willing to punt next season. He and Bloom will try to field a competitive team, which means we can't trade away everyone who won't be on the roster after 2021. I'd like to keep Moreland and Perez.

 

How many consecutive one year contracts has Moreland signed? Keep the line moving lol

[Kimmi]

How many consecutive one year contracts has Moreland signed? Keep the line moving lol

 

He is the Tim Wakefield of the position players. LOL

 

I love Moreland and have been on board with every one of the contracts the Sox have given him.

[Thunder]

He is the Tim Wakefield of the position players. LOL

 

I love Moreland and have been on board with every one of the contracts the Sox have given him.

 

Yeah, same here. When we first got him I didn't really understand why, but he's become one of my favorite Red Sox players, or at least one of my favorite left on the roster

[moonslav59]

If the return on either of those players is something we can't pass us, then we should trade them. But we shouldn't trade them just for the sake of trading them. As I said, I believe the team can be competitive in 2021.

 

I'm not for trading them for a bag of balls.

 

They both are doing well and are not being paid much. I think it's safe to say, we could get a decent prospect or player with 2-3+ years of control beyond 2020.

[Nick]

If the return on either of those players is something we can't pass us, then we should trade them. But we shouldn't trade them just for the sake of trading them. As I said, I believe the team can be competitive in 2021.

 

I like one year deals for veterans. That will not burden a team.

[Kimmi]

I like one year deals for veterans. That will not burden a team.

 

Agreed. Even if you have to up the dollar amount a little bit.

[moonslav59]

Agreed. Even if you have to up the dollar amount a little bit.

 

Yes, the risk is lowered, immensely.

 

I can see Bloom going down the 1-2 year deal road a lot in the next year or two, but maybe when we feel we are 1 or tow key players away from being a top contender, he will pounce on a large and long free agent or two.

 

I guess, if he feels the right guy is there, this winter, he may make a pre-emptive strike and go big, early, but who knows.

 

Another good thing about these shorter deals is that, if a few do really well, their trade value is pretty high due to low long term risk for the buyer.

 

[Larry Cook]

That may be the case, but if that is your concern, Holt would also take bats away from Arauz.

 

Or Bradley, bogey, Moreland, or devers. Holt plays everywhere not just second.

 

Test the youngsters now.

[jacksonianmarch]

You don’t hire Bloom and tell him to start signing shiny objects for 2021. When you hire Bloom, you do so with the understanding and trust in his process. The Sox are terrible. The Sox farm is pretty terrible. They’re very, very far off from being championship caliber, and if the Sox spend themselves into mediocrity for 2021, they’ll have done themselves no favors. Being in purgatory between the bottom 5 and the PO contenders is punished in baseball more than any other sport since after the top 5, the talent in the draft is a total crap shoot. Outside of the fluke year of 2013, the Sox championships have been either built directly with home grown stars or built by dealing off home grown talent. You cannot be a champion again until you build the farm back to a venerable spot. Under Bloom, I expect the Sox so be abjectly terrible in 2021. By 2022, they’ll have built the farm into the mid teens range and will start to have some equity to trade for some real talent. By 2023, the Sox will have a top 5 farm system with a home grown core and tons of money to spend. By 2024, they’ll be title contenders again. 2019 is the Yankees 2012. It took 5 years before we saw an LCS and a complete turnover of the team. I’d expect more of the same with a similar team. Old, broken down, expensive and terrible farm.

[mvp 78]

Being in purgatory between the bottom 5 and the PO contenders is punished in baseball more than any other sport since after the top 5, the talent in the draft is a total crap shoot.

 

Uh, they have the third worst record in all of MLB.

[Kimmi]

Yes, the risk is lowered, immensely.

 

I can see Bloom going down the 1-2 year deal road a lot in the next year or two, but maybe when we feel we are 1 or tow key players away from being a top contender, he will pounce on a large and long free agent or two.

 

I guess, if he feels the right guy is there, this winter, he may make a pre-emptive strike and go big, early, but who knows.

 

Another good thing about these shorter deals is that, if a few do really well, their trade value is pretty high due to low long term risk for the buyer.

 

 

Cherington went the route of signing veteran players for shorter team deals while he was rebuilding. It worked to perfection in 2013, not so much in '14 and '15. But despite the poor results in those latter two years, on paper, I felt that he fielded competitive teams all 3 years during the process of rebuilding.

 

There is no reason that Bloom can't do the same. It takes guys like Moreland and his short contract to do so.

 

Personally, I wouldn't trade JD either.

[Kimmi]

Or Bradley, bogey, Moreland, or devers. Holt plays everywhere not just second.

 

Test the youngsters now.

 

There is no need for Holt on this team right now.

[Kimmi]

You don’t hire Bloom and tell him to start signing shiny objects for 2021. When you hire Bloom, you do so with the understanding and trust in his process. The Sox are terrible. The Sox farm is pretty terrible. They’re very, very far off from being championship caliber, and if the Sox spend themselves into mediocrity for 2021, they’ll have done themselves no favors. Being in purgatory between the bottom 5 and the PO contenders is punished in baseball more than any other sport since after the top 5, the talent in the draft is a total crap shoot. Outside of the fluke year of 2013, the Sox championships have been either built directly with home grown stars or built by dealing off home grown talent. You cannot be a champion again until you build the farm back to a venerable spot. Under Bloom, I expect the Sox so be abjectly terrible in 2021. By 2022, they’ll have built the farm into the mid teens range and will start to have some equity to trade for some real talent. By 2023, the Sox will have a top 5 farm system with a home grown core and tons of money to spend. By 2024, they’ll be title contenders again. 2019 is the Yankees 2012. It took 5 years before we saw an LCS and a complete turnover of the team. I’d expect more of the same with a similar team. Old, broken down, expensive and terrible farm.

 

I agree with your first four sentences. Bloom will not be signing any shiny new toys for 2021.

 

After that, your post is mostly hogwash.

[jad]

How's The Process working out in Philadelphia?

[moonslav59]

I agree with your first four sentences. Bloom will not be signing any shiny new toys for 2021.

 

After that, your post is mostly hogwash.

 

I think, if Bloom sees a player he really wants, he may sign him for a longer term deal with eyes on 2022 and beyond, but since 2021 will likely be a wasted cost, that player would have to really be a gem in Bloom's eyes.

[notin]

I think, if Bloom sees a player he really wants, he may sign him for a longer term deal with eyes on 2022 and beyond, but since 2021 will likely be a wasted cost, that player would have to really be a gem in Bloom's eyes.

 

I don't have much history for the type of free agent Bloom covets, but he did sign a couple this year when he had virtually no budget. The common thread between Peraza and Perez were both were under 30.

 

I think he would look more for short term players 30 or under who can fill holes. Michael Taylor might be one such player who can fill CF and will only be 30 and might be amenable to a 1 year deal (with an option?). Maybe bullpen arms like Keone Kela or Ken Giles, too. But it really depends what kind of deal they would want...

 

I doubt he goes all in for Springer or Ozuna.

[mvp 78]

There is no need for Holt on this team right now.

 

MiLB coach. Maybe NESN personality?

[mvp 78]

I think, if Bloom sees a player he really wants, he may sign him for a longer term deal with eyes on 2022 and beyond, but since 2021 will likely be a wasted cost, that player would have to really be a gem in Bloom's eyes.

 

From the Henry perspective, they still want to get fans for 2021. I'd be surprised if they just rolled out the 2020 Sox redux.

[Bellhorn04]

From the Henry perspective, they still want to get fans for 2021. I'd be surprised if they just rolled out the 2020 Sox redux.

 

I'd be much more than surprised.

[notin]

I'd be much more than surprised.

 

The Sox have finished in last place 3 times prior when Henry owned the team. In two of those 3 years, they won the AL East in the following season. I seriously doubt the Sox are trying to reset the tax limits so they can go on a prolonged rebuild...

[oldtimer]

The Sox have finished in last place 3 times prior when Henry owned the team. In two of those 3 years, they won the AL East in the following season. I seriously doubt the Sox are trying to reset the tax limits so they can go on a prolonged rebuild.

Bloom is no snake oil salesman. He has stated the goal is sustained competitiveness. So we have to go from where we are now, cellar dwellers with many holes and a weak farm to a solid team with a stronger farm. i believe any steps he takes will move the Sox in that direction and he is enough of a realist to see that it will take time. Henry also put him in to build the team back up and I believe he is on board to spend money but to do it wisely. Dombrowski spent the money and depleted the farm to get a World Series although the idea of sustained performance wasn't a primary goal.

 

This year we are winning at the equivalent of 49 games in a 162 game season. I'd be pleased to see the Sox get to 81 wins in 2021. Lets hope other fans would be happy with that level of performance as well.

[mvp 78]

The Sox have finished in last place 3 times prior when Henry owned the team. In two of those 3 years, they won the AL East in the following season. I seriously doubt the Sox are trying to reset the tax limits so they can go on a prolonged rebuild...

 

^^^

 

I think Henry wants to spend money (wisely) and grow the farm system. It can be done. That's how we got the 2007 and 2018 WS.

[Larry Cook]

We all hope hang’em Chaim knows what he doing, but realistically it will take a bit longer to figure it out.

Another consideration, does Henry have the patience to do this right, or is he going to panic like he did with cherrington,

[moonslav59]

We all hope hang’em Chaim knows what he doing, but realistically it will take a bit longer to figure it out.

Another consideration, does Henry have the patience to do this right, or is he going to panic like he did with cherrington,

 

I do think he bailed on Ben a year too early, but Ben had long enough to lay the groundwork for DD's farm gut.

[Larry Cook]

I do think he bailed on Ben a year too early, but Ben had long enough to lay the groundwork for DD's farm gut.

 

Henry has to ask himself if the one ring worth it?

 

Of course there is no guarantee the six would have won a ring under cherrington, but I think we would still be competitive.