Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[cp176]

i dont think they rolled the dice. thanks to DD, they were simply left with the only move possible. .

 

 

has to come back to that damned DD don't you think. that old maverick just went ahead and did things his way with no guidance from above.

[cp176]

If true, $300M over 10 years with opt outs is a great contract. We gave it a shot. Rather than holding you know what at end of 2020, we got some potential talent.

 

No one wants to pay 50% cash penalty along with loss of draft spots.

 

Does it matter who we win with?

 

Actually i tend to think that it does matter who we win with sometimes especially to the fans who really count - the kids growing up with the game pay attention.

[Bellhorn04]

People keep trying to compare Betts leaving to other players, but the Sox whole financial picture is different since then. Both payrolls and salaries have skyrocketed.

 

The rules (tax rates, free agent compensation) are also way different.

[Nick]

I'm grateful that Yankees did not bolster their pitching at trade deadline last year.

 

They are definitely NOT repeating, no matter what happens this year.

 

Nothing like pissing away a great opportunity.

[Bellhorn04]

It wasn’t an option to ride one more year with Betts and then reset?

 

It was an option, but it was a stupid one, arguably - to put out the same basic team as 2019, finish third again or worse, pay luxury tax, and lose Mookie for a 4th round pick.

[mvp 78]

It was an option, but it was a stupid one, arguably - to put out the same basic team as 2019, finish third again or worse, pay luxury tax, and lose Mookie for a 4th round pick.

 

It's also the same basic team from 2018 that lapped the field.

[a700hitter]

It was an option, but it was a stupid one, arguably - to put out the same basic team as 2019, finish third again or worse, pay luxury tax, and lose Mookie for a 4th round pick.

what would have been stupid would have been holding back the starting pitchers in camp so they were not ready to start the season and digging a huge hole. I disagree with you. They 2020 team with Betts and Price could have contended at least for a Wild Card Spot.

[mvp 78]

what would have been stupid would have been holding back the starting pitchers in camp so they were not ready to start the season and digging a huge hole. I disagree with you. They 2020 team with Betts and Price could have contended at least for a Wild Card Spot.

 

I think the floor for the 2020 team would have been last year's 84 wins, but the ceiling is competing with the Yanks/Rays for the division. It was risky for sure.

[Bellhorn04]

It's also the same basic team from 2018 that lapped the field.

 

That's true, but the 2020 team couldn't hope to duplicate that, for numerous reasons, starting with all the payroll and tax problems.

[jad]

That's true, but the 2020 team couldn't hope to duplicate that, for numerous reasons, starting with all the payroll and tax problems.

 

Not sure I understand. If you ran out the 2020 team, which we are saying for yucks equals the 2018 team, how does the payroll/tax/etc. affect its performance for this year? (You pay the tax if you have to and deal with it later).

[moonslav59]

We made a big step in the right direction.

 

Of course those trying to sell tickets will spin and spin.

 

Henry will continue to spend to win. We will get back on top, at some point.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

It's also the same basic team from 2018 that lapped the field.

 

It was not the same team- by a lot.

[mvp 78]

We made a big step in the right direction.

 

Of course those trying to sell tickets will spin and spin.

 

Henry will continue to spend to win. We will get back on top, at some point.

 

One step forward, two steps back.

[mvp 78]

It was not the same team- by a lot.

 

That devastating loss of Nunez, Holt and Kimbrel (who they didn't even trust to close out games in the WS).

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure I understand. If you ran out the 2020 team, which we are saying for yucks equals the 2018 team, how does the payroll/tax/etc. affect its performance for this year? (You pay the tax if you have to and deal with it later).

 

Mainly, the payroll & tax problems meant they couldn't make acquisitions in the pitching dept.

 

A lot of the guys from the 2018 team are making a lot more money in 2020 - Betts, Bogey, JBJ, Sale, E-Rod - because of the arb rules and the extensions.

 

The 2018 team paid 20% tax and up.

 

The 2020 team would pay 50% tax and up.

[Bellhorn04]

Kimbrel (who they didn't even trust to close out games in the WS).

 

For that matter, Mookie didn't do much in the 2018 postseason.

[mvp 78]

For that matter, Mookie didn't do much in the 2018 postseason.

 

They didn't bench him. I'd bet that Mookie would be more likely to do well during the 2020 postseason than Kimbrel.

[Station 13]

For that matter, Mookie didn't do much in the 2018 postseason.

 

The defense though. Man save us the series in Houston.

[Bellhorn04]

They didn't bench him. I'd bet that Mookie would be more likely to do well during the 2020 postseason than Kimbrel.

 

Kimbrel was certainly not benched.

[mvp 78]

Kimbrel was certainly not benched.

 

Did he close out the series or did someone else?

 

I don't remember them pulling Betts off the field in the 9th inning for a defensive replacement.

[Bellhorn04]

Did he close out the series or did someone else?

 

I don't remember them pulling Betts off the field in the 9th inning for a defensive replacement.

 

Cora used the fresher arm with Sale.

 

Kimbrel had thrown 28 pitches in Game 3 and 28 in Game 4.

 

He was throwing in the pen in case Sale got in trouble.

 

That was just good management by Cora.

[mvp 78]

Cora used the fresher arm with Sale.

 

Kimbrel had thrown 28 pitches in Game 3 and 28 in Game 4.

 

He was throwing in the pen in case Sale got in trouble.

 

That was just good management by Cora.

 

Can't see the Yanks doing that with Rivera.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

That devastating loss of Nunez, Holt and Kimbrel (who they didn't even trust to close out games in the WS).

 

Plus Kelly & Pom. That's only 20% of the team.

[Bellhorn04]

Can't see the Yanks doing that with Rivera.

 

Cora was the first manager to ever use his starters in relief that much in the postseason.

 

It seemed to work pretty well.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

A big argument here all winter was which of the performances (and luck, good and bad) of 2018 or 2019 were most reasonable to repeat -- or more likely approximate -- in 2020.

 

In order to find out, the Red Sox had to keep Betts and Price... 2020 didn't have to be a bridge because a bounce-back to postseason contender was a possibility. Now here we are.

 

In my opinion, it would've been worth it -- and a hell of a lot more fun -- to watch Mookie in his salary drive season leading the Sox back to contention. And that includes if he still left next winter, because 2021 would have always been up in the air, with probable losses of Betts, JD and Bradley.

 

To those who were so pessimistic about this year even with Betts, but are optimistic about '21 because of our new salary flexibility, I ask this: who exactly is Bloom going to acquire in the next 12 months that will make that much difference? The best free agent starting pitchers are Stroman and Bauer -- inconsistent and/or unstable. As for trades, who is going to give up even a mid-rotation arm for JD or JBJ? Certainly, we aren't about to start swapping actual prospects, not now when Bloom is just beginning to hoard them?

 

I'm not saying deals in the next year won't set the Red Sox in the right direction... but I think that '21 was going to suck no matter what. Now we're staring at 2020 and 2021...

[Slasher9]

A big argument here all winter was which of the performances (and luck, good and bad) of 2018 or 2019 were most reasonable to repeat -- or more likely approximate -- in 2020.

 

In order to find out, the Red Sox had to keep Betts and Price... 2020 didn't have to be a bridge because a bounce-back to postseason contender was a possibility. Now here we are.

 

In my opinion, it would've been worth it -- and a hell of a lot more fun -- to watch Mookie in his salary drive season leading the Sox back to contention. And that includes if he still left next winter, because 2021 would have always been up in the air, with probable losses of Betts, JD and Bradley.

 

To those who were so pessimistic about this year even with Betts, but are optimistic about '21 because of our new salary flexibility, I ask this: who exactly is Bloom going to acquire in the next 12 months that will make that much difference? The best free agent starting pitchers are Stroman and Bauer -- inconsistent and/or unstable. As for trades, who is going to give up even a mid-rotation arm for JD or JBJ? Certainly, we aren't about to start swapping actual prospects, not now when Bloom is just beginning to hoard them?

 

I'm not saying deals in the next year won't set the Red Sox in the right direction... but I think that '21 was going to suck no matter what. Now we're staring at 2020 and 2021...

 

i think we add a 7 WAR player named Mookie Betts. the pitching will continue to be a "work in progress" as Bloom needs some time to work his magic on the pitching staff.

[Slasher9]

Cora was the first manager to ever use his starters in relief that much in the postseason.

 

It seemed to work pretty well.

 

personally i need to wait until the investigation report comes out before i give Cora a compliment on anything. but if that season ends up being "clean" then Cora deserves a ton of credit.

[Jasonbay44]

Would Cora really have been able to “cheat” by using starting pitchers in the playoffs? Even if he does get in serious trouble, I don’t think his managing of the playoffs had anything to do with it.

[kenmeister]

i think we add a 7 WAR player named Mookie Betts. the pitching will continue to be a "work in progress" as Bloom needs some time to work his magic on the pitching staff.

 

Apparently these guys are going to be free agents next offseason:

 

Starting pitchers: Corey Kluber (club option), Trevor Bauer, Robbie Ray, James Paxton, Masahiro Tanaka, Jake Arrieta (club option), Marcus Stroman, Jose Quintana

 

Adding one of them seems to be a priority.

[mvp 78]

Plus Kelly & Pom. That's only 20% of the team.

 

Can't forget Pomeranz! Was he even on the postseason roster?

 

Kelly's production can be replicated by any AAAA reliever.